Hi all.
I am using Jack's recipe for Apple Cider / Juice wine. The Apple Cider
has been 10 days in the primary and still is 1.100. I'd like to confirm,
that means my yeast didn't work. And I have to try again. Right?

I started an Apple Juice wine 7 days later and it's already down 1.080
and dropping. So that is what it's suppose to do.

i'm keeping it at room temperature, should I cool it or heat it? 72
degrees is about average here in the house.

thanks for any thoughts. DAve

Do you still have the container from the Apple Cider? If so, check the
label. It probably contains preservatives such as Sodium Benzoate or
Potassium Sorbate. Both of those will stabilize your juice, i.e. keeping
fermentation from developing. You could get this going by doing a yeast
starter, and adding that to your apple cider. The preservatives don't allow
yeast to multiply, but if introduce a very healthy starter culture of yeast,
the yeast you do add will start the fermantion process, they just won't
multiply.

Van

"DAve Allison" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all.
> I am using Jack's recipe for Apple Cider / Juice wine. The Apple Cider has
> been 10 days in the primary and still is 1.100. I'd like to confirm, that
> means my yeast didn't work. And I have to try again. Right?
>
> I started an Apple Juice wine 7 days later and it's already down 1.080 and
> dropping. So that is what it's suppose to do.
>
> i'm keeping it at room temperature, should I cool it or heat it? 72
> degrees is about average here in the house.
>
> thanks for any thoughts. DAve

Thanks for the info, however, I was paranoid over ensuring it was only
pasteurized, and no additives. I asked the orchard's owner and he also
makes Apple Cider wine, so knew why I was asking.
Your suggestion has merit as I did the 2nd batch by using a yeast
starter, and this 1st one with only sprinkling on top.
Maybe that is it.
DAve

Van DeWald wrote:
> Do you still have the container from the Apple Cider? If so, check the
> label. It probably contains preservatives such as Sodium Benzoate or
> Potassium Sorbate. Both of those will stabilize your juice, i.e. keeping
> fermentation from developing. You could get this going by doing a yeast
> starter, and adding that to your apple cider. The preservatives don't allow
> yeast to multiply, but if introduce a very healthy starter culture of yeast,
> the yeast you do add will start the fermantion process, they just won't
> multiply.
>
> Van
>
> "DAve Allison" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi all.
>>I am using Jack's recipe for Apple Cider / Juice wine. The Apple Cider has
>>been 10 days in the primary and still is 1.100. I'd like to confirm, that
>>means my yeast didn't work. And I have to try again. Right?
>>
>>I started an Apple Juice wine 7 days later and it's already down 1.080 and
>>dropping. So that is what it's suppose to do.
>>
>>i'm keeping it at room temperature, should I cool it or heat it? 72
>>degrees is about average here in the house.
>>
>>thanks for any thoughts. DAve
>
>
>

Well, after much reading thru Jack's website and talking to a neighbor
who got some advice to this effect - I got a liquid yeast for Chablis
and Cider, activated it and put it in the 1 and 2 gallon Apple Cider /
Juice primaries. 65-75 degrees is what I found was best for primary
stage. Oh, I also added 1/2 tsp of Yeast Nutrient prior to the new yeast.
DAve

DAve Allison wrote:
> Hi all.
> I am using Jack's recipe for Apple Cider / Juice wine. The Apple Cider
> has been 10 days in the primary and still is 1.100. I'd like to confirm,
> that means my yeast didn't work. And I have to try again. Right?
>
> I started an Apple Juice wine 7 days later and it's already down 1.080
> and dropping. So that is what it's suppose to do.
>
> i'm keeping it at room temperature, should I cool it or heat it? 72
> degrees is about average here in the house.
>
> thanks for any thoughts. DAve

Back before the days of additives for wine making, wasn't wine made
without all the additives we currently use?? Pectin enzyme etc??
Wasn't it good wine??? Mike

Mike Bernardoni wrote:

> Back before the days of additives for wine making, wasn't wine made
> without all the additives we currently use?? Pectin enzyme etc??
> Wasn't it good wine??? Mike

We weren't around then so who knows.

It's all relative. My grandfathers wines were considered good and he
used no chemicals. He learned how to make wine in Italy before he
came across and that was close to 100 years ago. The only thing he did
that seems a little odd was that he used mint to 'sweeten' the barrel.
Do I know what that means? No; I was too young to have an opinion on
his wine. I do know he was a fanatic about cleaning the barrels. His
wine always disappeared in time for another batch; they were simple
table wines consumed young. That said, I use chemicals judiciously and
I'm sure he would like our wines.

Joe

Well, It appears Van was correct, the Apple Cider orchard must have used
potassium sorbiate, cause still I am getting no bubbling. I am building
a nice fine, white lees at the bottom, but hydrometer still is 1.100.
Dang, guess I'll rack in 8 days and see what happens. Too early to toss
yet, but this doesn't seem to be working.

Thanks, Van.

maybe i need a new hobby,
DAve


DAve Allison wrote:
> Well, after much reading thru Jack's website and talking to a neighbor
> who got some advice to this effect - I got a liquid yeast for Chablis
> and Cider, activated it and put it in the 1 and 2 gallon Apple Cider /
> Juice primaries. 65-75 degrees is what I found was best for primary
> stage. Oh, I also added 1/2 tsp of Yeast Nutrient prior to the new yeast.
> DAve
>
> DAve Allison wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>> I am using Jack's recipe for Apple Cider / Juice wine. The Apple Cider
>> has been 10 days in the primary and still is 1.100. I'd like to
>> confirm, that means my yeast didn't work. And I have to try again. Right?
>>
>> I started an Apple Juice wine 7 days later and it's already down 1.080
>> and dropping. So that is what it's suppose to do.
>>
>> i'm keeping it at room temperature, should I cool it or heat it? 72
>> degrees is about average here in the house.
>>
>> thanks for any thoughts. DAve

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 09:00:43 -0600, Mike Bernardoni
> wrote:

>Back before the days of additives for wine making, wasn't wine made
>without all the additives we currently use?? Pectin enzyme etc??
>Wasn't it good wine??? Mike

I ran a wine & beer making supply store some years ago, and among my
customers were a number of guys of Italian ancestry who made wine "the
old way". Fermentation was with whatever yeast grew on the skin of
the grapes and the only additive was lemons to adjust acid. [All they
bought from me was corks. :-) ]

The guys often brought in samples. I tasted some really nice wines; I
also received bottles of fantastic drain cleaner that I couldn't get
past my nose.

In contrast, one man made his wines using what additives the grapes
needed. He measured pH, TA, etc, and adjusted the wines accordingly.
His wines rivaled the best commercial wines I've had. Wines he
considered failures were successes by most standards. I would have
been proud to serve some of his "failures".

That's the long answer.

The short answer is consistency. Commercial yeasts and additives make
up for the widely varying conditions in nature. They enable us to
take mediocre grapes and produce pleasing wines.

Bryan

"Mike Bernardoni" > wrote in message
...
> Back before the days of additives for wine making, wasn't wine made
> without all the additives we currently use?? Pectin enzyme etc??

Pectic enzyme is not as widely used as you might think. Many, if not most,
red winemakers don't use it at all.

OTOH, to find wines that were made without the use of sulfur dioxide I
suspect you'd have to go back hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

In the days before that I suspect that wines were typically consumed quite
early - before they had a chance to spoil. I understand that olive oil was
poured on top of the wine to keep air away from it and to lengthen somewhat
its shelf life.

> Wasn't it good wine???

It may have been good while it lasted - but that probably wasn't very long.
I'll bet the stuff at that famous wedding at Cana was superb! ;^D

Tom S

SO2 - hundreds, even thousands, of years? How do you figure? The
concepts of bacteria and microbial spolage date only to the late 19th
century, don't they? (Pasteur's work was mid to late 19th century). If
SO2 was used, what was the purpose, and - most interesting - what was
the vector for delivering? I can't imagine meta powder or Campden
tablets were easy to come by!

"Ric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> SO2 - hundreds, even thousands, of years? How do you figure? The
> concepts of bacteria and microbial spolage date only to the late 19th
> century, don't they? (Pasteur's work was mid to late 19th century). If
> SO2 was used, what was the purpose

They learned empirically that it helped them to make better wine? I really
don't know. I wasn't there. :^/

and - most interesting - what was
> the vector for delivering? I can't imagine meta powder or Campden
> tablets were easy to come by!

No, but sulfur was. They simply burned sulfur in the container before
adding the wine. The French call it "mechage". It's not a very well
controlled way of adding SO2, but it does work.

Tom S

You weren't there? Damn. Thought I'd found a source for some REALLY
aged French wines. chuckle

Interesting point about the "mechage". I knew I'd learn something if I
asked. Part of the allure of making wine is the history that comes with
doing so. When I'm groveling on my knees under the vines, trying to
pick some difficult to reach cluster; or when I'm watching a vat of
must fermenting away, I can't help but think that what I'm doing is
pretty much exactly what's been done for thousands of years.

Belive it or not - I wasn't there either!

Cheers,

R

There is no doubt that the wine at Cana was the BEST wine ever made, period.
Anyone who can make wine from water, can make the BEST wine.

Gary

http://home.carolina.rr.com/winemaking/



"Tom S" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> "Mike Bernardoni" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Back before the days of additives for wine making, wasn't wine made
> > without all the additives we currently use?? Pectin enzyme etc??
>
> Pectic enzyme is not as widely used as you might think. Many, if not
most,
> red winemakers don't use it at all.
>
> OTOH, to find wines that were made without the use of sulfur dioxide I
> suspect you'd have to go back hundreds, if not thousands, of years.
>
> In the days before that I suspect that wines were typically consumed quite
> early - before they had a chance to spoil. I understand that olive oil
was
> poured on top of the wine to keep air away from it and to lengthen
somewhat
> its shelf life.
>
> > Wasn't it good wine???
>
> It may have been good while it lasted - but that probably wasn't very
long.
> I'll bet the stuff at that famous wedding at Cana was superb! ;^D
>
> Tom S
>
>

Make a starter of about a quart using sugar and water, then add that in
when it's going really well. It can't hurt to get the yeast going
really well and then try adding it in equal increments, a quart to a
quart, and so on.

Joe

This really worked nicely. Plus I realized it was too cool, so I used a
heating blanket under it, and now it's bubbling away (and also my
pumpkin is alive again because of the heating blanket under it).
I see regular heater platforms for sale online, but this heating blanket
is working - anyone have any experience using heating blankets instead
of the retail heater pads?

I guess I should buy a thermometer that floats in the must, so I can
tell what temperature it is. hmm.
DAve

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> Make a starter of about a quart using sugar and water, then add that in
> when it's going really well. It can't hurt to get the yeast going
> really well and then try adding it in equal increments, a quart to a
> quart, and so on.
>
> Joe
>

You know it's a hobby when it starts consuming all your daydreaming
thoughts (see below).

Gene

DAve Allison wrote:
> This really worked nicely. Plus I realized it was too cool, so I used a
> heating blanket under it, and now it's bubbling away (and also my
> pumpkin is alive again because of the heating blanket under it).
> I see regular heater platforms for sale online, but this heating blanket
> is working - anyone have any experience using heating blankets instead
> of the retail heater pads?

Shoot, I just put a small light bulb in the spare bedroom closet where I
do my fermentations... 50W to slowwwwly raise the temperature after
cold soak.
Once my zinfandel fermentaion is underway, I use 75-100W bulb during day
to push temp to 70-80F (and 100-125W at night to keep temperature from
dropping; 25W difference day/night is all it takes to hold temperature
constant in my closet winery).

For whites, I use no heat, but instead surround the fermentor pail with
closed 5 gallon jugs of tap water (for big thermal mass), then cover the
whole shebang with blankets.

These combos hold the fermentation temperature within 2deg F, and it's
all run on outlet-type timers.
>
> I guess I should buy a thermometer that floats in the must, so I can
> tell what temperature it is. hmm.

You could buy an el cheapo digital indoor/outdoor temperature gauge
(with wire-remote thermistor sensor for the 'outdoor' temp reading).
I attached the 'outdoor' sensor of mine to the outside of my fermentor
pail (near the bottom), then covered the sensor with 'shipping peanuts'
insulation, held onto the pail with masking tape. Can see what temp my
fermentor is without even opening the closet door, LOL.

Come to think of it, I could insulate my open-top 10 gallon fermentor by
standing it up off the bottom inside a 33 gallon garbage can, wrap the
fermentor with two strings of miniature christmas lights for heat...
[Off / Low(~10W ) / Med (~25W) / High (~35W) as needed] and fill the
empty space with more shipping peanuts.
[...wonder if that's too much work --- I'll think about it for the next
batch.]

> DAve
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>
>> Make a starter of about a quart using sugar and water, then add that in
>> when it's going really well. It can't hurt to get the yeast going
>> really well and then try adding it in equal increments, a quart to a
>> quart, and so on.
>>
>> Joe
>>

I use a heating pad and strap it on with old belts, then I wrap a few
blankets or towels around all of that. It works well. Eckerd still
sells regular heating pads that don't have an automatic timeout
feature. They are getting harder to find.

Joe