I have been using kieselsol and liquid gelatin to clear my wine but
see my local supplier no longer carriers it. I would rather not use
bentonite clay I find a bit awkward to work with and was wondering
what works best?

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
>I have been using kieselsol and liquid gelatin to clear my wine but
> see my local supplier no longer carriers it. I would rather not use
> bentonite clay I find a bit awkward to work with and was wondering
> what works best?

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Bentonite is used to remove proteinaceous materials from wine that would
otherwise precipitate during the aging process and render the wine cloudy
again.

Gelatin is used to precipitate harsh tasting tannins from wine, thereby
smoothing the flavor.

Kieselsohl is used with either of the above to help compact the lees,
threrby reducing racking losses.

Clarification of the wine is a _side_ benefit of the fining process. It is
not the primary effect.

As for obtaining liquid gelatin, just buy some in powder form from a
homebrew shop, dissolve it in warm water to a 5% solution and stir it into
the wine before it jells. Normal usage range is between ¼ and 2 pounds dry
gelatin per 1000 gallons of wine. I tend to use ½ to 1 pound per thousand.

You should conduct a fining trial on a bottle's worth of your wine to
determine the correct adjustment and then scale the result up for the entire
batch.

Tom S

Thank you for the information Tom, for me this is a learning
experiance. What do you think of isinglass to clear white wine?

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:47:29 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Jim" > wrote in message
.. .
>>I have been using kieselsol and liquid gelatin to clear my wine but
>> see my local supplier no longer carriers it. I would rather not use
>> bentonite clay I find a bit awkward to work with and was wondering
>> what works best?
>
>You're comparing apples to oranges.
>
>Bentonite is used to remove proteinaceous materials from wine that would
>otherwise precipitate during the aging process and render the wine cloudy
>again.
>
>Gelatin is used to precipitate harsh tasting tannins from wine, thereby
>smoothing the flavor.
>
>Kieselsohl is used with either of the above to help compact the lees,
>threrby reducing racking losses.
>
>Clarification of the wine is a _side_ benefit of the fining process. It is
>not the primary effect.
>
>As for obtaining liquid gelatin, just buy some in powder form from a
>homebrew shop, dissolve it in warm water to a 5% solution and stir it into
>the wine before it jells. Normal usage range is between ¼ and 2 pounds dry
>gelatin per 1000 gallons of wine. I tend to use ½ to 1 pound per thousand.
>
>You should conduct a fining trial on a bottle's worth of your wine to
>determine the correct adjustment and then scale the result up for the entire
>batch.
>
>Tom S
>

What about good ol' egg whites ?

that just sounds disgusting.

--
billb
"CJ" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What about good ol' egg whites ?
>

"CJ" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What about good ol' egg whites ?

Personally, I don't care for egg white fining. It's not nearly as
aggressive as gelatin, so you need to use more for a given wine, and it's a
lot more trouble to prepare.

That said, I wouldn't rule it out.

Tom S

More trouble? You think so? I think egg whites are easier to prepare
than making a bentonite slurry. Neither are very difficult.

One point this thread seems to be missing; the differences in fining
reasons and strategies between whites and reds. With whites, it is not
uncommon to use two fining agents in sequence; one positive, one
negative. Some winemakers consider this necessary to clear a white of
protein haze.

With reds, the issue is much more subtle; whehter to fine or not
depends on the wine, and what you want of it. I like fining some reds
that tend to be too harsh (tannins) with egg whites. I have some Syrah
finishing secondary right now that I will likely egg white fine in the
search for a Rhone style blender.

"Jim Robertson" > wrote in message
...
> Thank you for the information Tom, for me this is a learning
> experiance. What do you think of isinglass to clear white wine?

Isinglass is _excellent_ for some wines - including reds. I fined my 2004
Chardonnay with isinglass after doing trials against my usual gelatin. The
isinglass treated wine had better mouth feel. It was a subtle difference,
but distinct.

Tom S

Does anyone have an opinion of sparkalloid?

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:33:28 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>
>"Jim Robertson" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Thank you for the information Tom, for me this is a learning
>> experiance. What do you think of isinglass to clear white wine?
>
>Isinglass is _excellent_ for some wines - including reds. I fined my 2004
>Chardonnay with isinglass after doing trials against my usual gelatin. The
>isinglass treated wine had better mouth feel. It was a subtle difference,
>but distinct.
>
>Tom S
>

I had very good results using sparkolloid to clear a sauvignon blanc
last year. Only detraction is the lees are very fluffy and when racking
can be easily disturbed. Take care when racking of sparkolloid lees.

Joe
Jim Robertson wrote:
> Does anyone have an opinion of sparkalloid?
>
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:33:28 GMT, "Tom S" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Jim Robertson" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>Thank you for the information Tom, for me this is a learning
>>>experiance. What do you think of isinglass to clear white wine?
>>
>>Isinglass is _excellent_ for some wines - including reds. I fined my 2004
>>Chardonnay with isinglass after doing trials against my usual gelatin. The
>>isinglass treated wine had better mouth feel. It was a subtle difference,
>>but distinct.
>>
>>Tom S
>>
>
>

Yeah, gelatin is really powerfull and can strip a lot out of wine.
Bentonite on the other hand is fairly gentle. Isenglass and aparkaloid
are inbetween.

I use gelatin when I have a really really hazy fruit wine (like from
plums, peaches, apricots -the worst-). It will pull out a pectin haze,
I do not know of any other fining that will very well. If you do use
gelatin, you will most likely want to add some tannin back...it takes
that out too. Also I find that gelatin works better if left for a long
time to fully settle. That is fine early, rack off the lees and then
bulk age. A lot of times you will find "jellyfish" sitting on the
bottom 9 months after fining. It would suck to have that in the
bottle.

Persoanlly, I think every wine maker (assuming they make more than just
grape wines) should have an arsenal of fining agents to use if need be.
At least 3, isinglass or sparlaloid, gelatin (high pectin wines only)
and bentonite.

Of course, there are dozens of finings you could use, try a few and
decide which ones you like

Thankl you all for the help.

On 5 Oct 2005 14:09:44 -0700, "Droopy" > wrote:

>Yeah, gelatin is really powerfull and can strip a lot out of wine.
>Bentonite on the other hand is fairly gentle. Isenglass and aparkaloid
>are inbetween.
>
>I use gelatin when I have a really really hazy fruit wine (like from
>plums, peaches, apricots -the worst-). It will pull out a pectin haze,
>I do not know of any other fining that will very well. If you do use
>gelatin, you will most likely want to add some tannin back...it takes
>that out too. Also I find that gelatin works better if left for a long
>time to fully settle. That is fine early, rack off the lees and then
>bulk age. A lot of times you will find "jellyfish" sitting on the
>bottom 9 months after fining. It would suck to have that in the
>bottle.
>
>Persoanlly, I think every wine maker (assuming they make more than just
>grape wines) should have an arsenal of fining agents to use if need be.
> At least 3, isinglass or sparlaloid, gelatin (high pectin wines only)
>and bentonite.
>
>Of course, there are dozens of finings you could use, try a few and
>decide which ones you like

I am a newbie but have not yet needed to use any fining materials for
my grape wines (only made 4 so far ... 3 from concentrates and one from
grapes from garden). However, I plan to make my first CHERRY (sour)
wine this coming summer (I have a BIG tree). I have all three finings
(Bentonite, Sparkaloid, and Gelatin) ... which of these would you try
first for cherry wine if needed? Is one of these an obvious choice for
cherry or would you simply start with the most gentle (bentonite) then
try sparkaloid, then gelatin if still needed?

Thanks in advance for any comments!
Roger L. Pelletier
Aurora, NE USA

"Droopy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I use gelatin when I have a really really hazy fruit wine (like from
> plums, peaches, apricots -the worst-). It will pull out a pectin haze,
> I do not know of any other fining that will very well.

Sounds like you should be using pectic enzyme to treat that problem - not
gelatin.

Tom S