Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
to control the vigour of my vines in
England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
with grape ripening.
Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
very low rainfall.
I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
healthy.
Hope you can help
Michael

In article
>,
michael > wrote:

> Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
> to control the vigour of my vines in
> England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
> I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
> winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
> sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
> with grape ripening.
> Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
> other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
> The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
> leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
> with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
> are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
> My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
> August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
> very low rainfall.
> I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
> that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
> healthy.
> Hope you can help
> Michael

June is typical for flowering here in California. Then, ideally, you
have at least 90 days to harvest.

How tall are we talking here? These are cane pruned? You may want to
prune top and sides to give a rectangular look to your vines, as this
allows better penetration of sunlight and air, to keep leaves dry and
protected from mold and mildew.

How old are vines?

Don't feed. Don't water, unless they become stressed.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

On 26 June, 01:08, Billy > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *michael > wrote:
> > Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
> > to control the vigour of my vines in
> > England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
> > I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
> > winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
> > sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
> > with grape ripening.
> > Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
> > other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
> > The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
> > leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
> > with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
> > are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
> > My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
> > August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
> > very low rainfall.
> > I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
> > that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
> > healthy.
> > Hope you can help
> > Michael
>
> June is typical for flowering here in California. Then, ideally, you
> have at least 90 days to harvest.
>
> How tall are we talking here? These are cane pruned? You may want to
> prune top and sides to give a rectangular look to your vines, as this
> allows better penetration of sunlight and air, to keep leaves dry and
> protected from mold and mildew.
>
> How old are vines?
>
> Don't feed. Don't water, unless they become stressed.
> --
> - Billy
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3l...s-your-brain/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Billy and Paul,
Yes,these vines are cane pruned,and the top wire (already
passed) is 5 ft 6in.I regularly tie all the vertical shoots into the
trellis,and do not usually have to side prune.The vines are from
cuttings and about 6 years old.I clearly cut off the tops of the
verticals,but as late as possible,since this encourages side
shoots,which can themselves inhibit penetration of the wettable
sulphur spray I use regularly to prevent powdery mildew.Paul suggests
that it is difficult to control vigour,and possibly have a downward
growing vine arrangement,but I am not sure what this involves. Since
the vines are very healthy,I refrain from using fertiliser very much.I
have been putting on wood ash (potash) in the winter to encourage
fruiting,and have always assumed that this does not encourage
vigour.Perhaps I will just leave the vines alone for a couple of
years.
One other question.I always tie in the vertical shoots to keep them
separated as much as possible,but find this very time consuming.I
usually tie to every other wire,since the string does not firmly grip
the wire and slides about somewhat.There is also considerable work
cutting off the string at pruning time.Some of my books suggest twist
ties,which are plastic covered wire,but I have always resisted this
approach,since they must be even more difficult to remove.
Michael

michael wrote:

> On 26 June, 01:08, Billy > wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> michael > wrote:
>> > Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
>> > to control the vigour of my vines in
>> > England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
>> > I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
>> > winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
>> > sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
>> > with grape ripening.
>> > Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
>> > other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
>> > The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
>> > leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
>> > with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
>> > are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
>> > My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
>> > August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
>> > very low rainfall.
>> > I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
>> > that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
>> > healthy.
>> > Hope you can help
>> > Michael
>>
>> June is typical for flowering here in California. Then, ideally, you
>> have at least 90 days to harvest.
>>
>> How tall are we talking here? These are cane pruned? You may want to
>> prune top and sides to give a rectangular look to your vines, as this
>> allows better penetration of sunlight and air, to keep leaves dry and
>> protected from mold and mildew.
>>
>> How old are vines?
>>
>> Don't feed. Don't water, unless they become stressed.
>> --
>> - Billy
>> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
>> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito
>>
Mussolini.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3l...s-your-brain/-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Billy and Paul,
> Yes,these vines are cane pruned,and the top wire (already
> passed) is 5 ft 6in.I regularly tie all the vertical shoots into the
> trellis,and do not usually have to side prune.The vines are from
> cuttings and about 6 years old.I clearly cut off the tops of the
> verticals,but as late as possible,since this encourages side
> shoots,which can themselves inhibit penetration of the wettable
> sulphur spray I use regularly to prevent powdery mildew.Paul suggests
> that it is difficult to control vigour,and possibly have a downward
> growing vine arrangement,but I am not sure what this involves. Since
> the vines are very healthy,I refrain from using fertiliser very much.I
> have been putting on wood ash (potash) in the winter to encourage
> fruiting,and have always assumed that this does not encourage
> vigour.Perhaps I will just leave the vines alone for a couple of
> years.
> One other question.I always tie in the vertical shoots to keep them
> separated as much as possible,but find this very time consuming.I
> usually tie to every other wire,since the string does not firmly grip
> the wire and slides about somewhat.There is also considerable work
> cutting off the string at pruning time.Some of my books suggest twist
> ties,which are plastic covered wire,but I have always resisted this
> approach,since they must be even more difficult to remove.
> Michael

I use the plastic coated twist ties but they will still slip around.
I, and other growers in my area also use "C" clips. An example is he

http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com/o...p?idproduct=72

I am assuming you have your catch wires on both sides of the posts and not a
single wire. If so, then you just pull both wires together and put a clip
on them. You can bracket about a half dozen shoots at a time and just put
a clip on each end. If you need to add a shoot or rearrange, just unclip,
reposition and put the clip back on.

In article
>,
michael > wrote:

> On 26 June, 01:08, Billy > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *michael > wrote:
> > > Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
> > > to control the vigour of my vines in
> > > England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
> > > I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
> > > winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
> > > sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
> > > with grape ripening.
> > > Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
> > > other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
> > > The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
> > > leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
> > > with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
> > > are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
> > > My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
> > > August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
> > > very low rainfall.
> > > I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
> > > that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
> > > healthy.
> > > Hope you can help
> > > Michael
> >
> > June is typical for flowering here in California. Then, ideally, you
> > have at least 90 days to harvest.
> >
> > How tall are we talking here? These are cane pruned? You may want to
> > prune top and sides to give a rectangular look to your vines, as this
> > allows better penetration of sunlight and air, to keep leaves dry and
> > protected from mold and mildew.
> >
> > How old are vines?
> >
> > Don't feed. Don't water, unless they become stressed.
> > --
> > - Billy
> > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito
> > Mussolini.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3l...wisdom.com/ess
> > ays/this-is-your-brain/- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Billy and Paul,
> Yes,these vines are cane pruned,and the top wire (already
> passed) is 5 ft 6in.I regularly tie all the vertical shoots into the
> trellis,and do not usually have to side prune.The vines are from
> cuttings and about 6 years old.I clearly cut off the tops of the
> verticals,but as late as possible,since this encourages side
> shoots,which can themselves inhibit penetration of the wettable
> sulphur spray I use regularly to prevent powdery mildew.
These vines are vinifera, labrusca, or hybrids? In Italy they might
leave the leaves on to protect against sunburn, but at your latitude,
everyone else opens up their vines by cutting the tops and sides, to let
more air and sunlight in, to reduce shading on the soil, and neighboring
vines, to reduce the new growth where mold is most susceptible to
maintain the shape of the vine as the canes get longer and may possibly
drop. This clipping ( or topping ) to remove the growing tips of
branches may need to be done several times.
> Paul suggests
> that it is difficult to control vigour,and possibly have a downward
> growing vine arrangement,but I am not sure what this involves. Since
> the vines are very healthy,I refrain from using fertiliser very much.I
> have been putting on wood ash (potash) in the winter to encourage
> fruiting,
Woodash (K) is good for the health of the vine. PO4-- is usually used to
encourage flowering, but in grapes, I would think that the flowering
depends on the number of buds left on the canes. Over crop one year, and
get an under crop the next.
> and have always assumed that this does not encourage
> vigour.
Growth would come from a nitrogen source, like manure.
>Perhaps I will just leave the vines alone for a couple of
> years.
Remind me. Are these vines for fresh eating or wine making?
> One other question.I always tie in the vertical shoots to keep them
> separated as much as possible,but find this very time consuming.I
> usually tie to every other wire,since the string does not firmly grip
> the wire and slides about somewhat.There is also considerable work
> cutting off the string at pruning time.Some of my books suggest twist
> ties,which are plastic covered wire,but I have always resisted this
> approach,since they must be even more difficult to remove.
> Michael
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://radwisdom.com/essays/this-is-your-brain/

michael wrote:

> Last year,I received some very useful comments from this Group on how
> to control the vigour of my vines in
> England(Bacchus,Schonburger,Regent,Rondo).
> I was advised by some to regularly put compost on the vines in the
> winter,and by others to leave alone.Also some recommended removing
> sideshoots from the verticals (Double Guyot ),some not as they help
> with grape ripening.
> Well,I put compost +balanced fertiliser on 50%,and only peat on the
> other 50%,and there is no discernible difference in vigour.
> The vines are carrying a good crop this year and I will keep as much
> leaf on as possible,consistent with being able to get good penetration
> with powdery mildew spray.However,it really is strange that the vines
> are flowering now,and the vertical rods are already over the top wire!
> My books suggest that the rods should reach the top wires in early
> August.This season has slightly above average temperatures,but very
> very low rainfall.
> I would really like some advice on how to reduce vigour.I should add
> that all my vines are from cuttings,and that they all look incredibly
> healthy.
> Hope you can help
> Michael

You can't control the rains and therefore vigor control is very difficult.
You could experiment by trying to grow some on a high wire. downward
growing shoots are less vigorous.

You will get a LOT more fedback by going to

Winepress.us and joining (its free)

Paul