Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 12-07-2004, 08:12 PM
Ray
 
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Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

All I can get is sweet cherries so that is what I use. I have not really
been disappointed but have nothing to compare with. Your wine is already
underway so don't worry about it. It will pretty much take care of itself.
If it comes out a bit off then concern yourself with adjustments but don't
worry until then.

Your SG is a little high but if it is fermenting well, and it sounds like it
is, once again don't worry, it will do fine.

I would not recommend another racking until it stops fermenting. When the
airlock stops doing anything, wait a couple of weeks or even a month so it
will drop most of it's sediment and then rack and top up. That is when you
might add meta. If you open it after it stops, then you will need to top up
even if you do not rack.

Ray

"Phil" wrote in message
m...
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request175.asp

"The best cherry wines are made with Tart (sour) cherries or a
combination of tart and sweet cherries. I will not go so far as to say
that the worse cherry wines are made with sweet cherries alone, but
unless carefully and properly ameliorated with malic acid, sweet
cherry wines often lack balance."

The above quote is taken from Jack's site. So is this true. Does an
'all sweet cherry' wine suck?

He says, "lacking balance". What do you guys think?

I just transferred my all sweet cherry wine to the secondary today
after one week in the primary. The og was 1.096 and now it's at
1.050. Is this normal? I tasted the gravity sample and it was sweet
as hell! (duh!) After only an hour a foam appeared on top and it
appears that fermentation has started up again. How long should I go
before I transfer again? I was thinking 2 months or so.

I didn't add meta at this transfer. Should I have? Should I add a
1/4 teaspoon? I have about 24 liters.




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Old 12-07-2004, 09:57 PM
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

It all depends on your fruit and YOUR tastebuds. I made my first cherry
wine out of Door County pie/tart cherries from northeast Wisconsin. It was
good at 1 year but then the tartness really came out after that, so my next
batch was made out of sweet frozen cherries. I like sweeter wines, so I
think I will like this better than the last batch. I would look at this
first batch of yours as a trial run, and make changes after you try it. The
point is to make something you like and your friends/family like. Besides
which, I'm sure cherries from Wisconsin taste a bit different than from
somewhere else, so even if you use the same recipe it'll be a bit different.
Good-luck.
Darlene

"Phil" wrote in message
m...
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request175.asp

"The best cherry wines are made with Tart (sour) cherries or a
combination of tart and sweet cherries. I will not go so far as to say
that the worse cherry wines are made with sweet cherries alone, but
unless carefully and properly ameliorated with malic acid, sweet
cherry wines often lack balance."

The above quote is taken from Jack's site. So is this true. Does an
'all sweet cherry' wine suck?

He says, "lacking balance". What do you guys think?

I just transferred my all sweet cherry wine to the secondary today
after one week in the primary. The og was 1.096 and now it's at
1.050. Is this normal? I tasted the gravity sample and it was sweet
as hell! (duh!) After only an hour a foam appeared on top and it
appears that fermentation has started up again. How long should I go
before I transfer again? I was thinking 2 months or so.

I didn't add meta at this transfer. Should I have? Should I add a
1/4 teaspoon? I have about 24 liters.



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Old 12-07-2004, 11:23 PM
Nick R
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

I was wondering if you could share your recipes for the tart apples and sour
cherries. I made my first batch of wine out of fresh sour cherries. After
3 weeks I tasted it and it wasn't very good at all. I might have to end up
tossing it. I will have some apples soon, and I would love to have your
recipe, since you have had good luck. thanks.

"PA-ter" wrote in message
m...
Don't know all the technical jargon as stated above as to the how &
why but all the cherry wine I ever tried to make with sweet cherrys
lacked flavor big time. Even tried to mix it with other wines (a
couple of times) with no luck. Ended up giving it away & don't know if
it ever got drank. Made the same way with sour cherries it was some of
the best wine I've ever made. I've fount that tart apples (staymen) as
compared to sweeter apples make the best wine also. Good luck.



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Old 12-07-2004, 11:23 PM
Nick R
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

I was wondering if you could share your recipes for the tart apples and sour
cherries. I made my first batch of wine out of fresh sour cherries. After
3 weeks I tasted it and it wasn't very good at all. I might have to end up
tossing it. I will have some apples soon, and I would love to have your
recipe, since you have had good luck. thanks.

"PA-ter" wrote in message
m...
Don't know all the technical jargon as stated above as to the how &
why but all the cherry wine I ever tried to make with sweet cherrys
lacked flavor big time. Even tried to mix it with other wines (a
couple of times) with no luck. Ended up giving it away & don't know if
it ever got drank. Made the same way with sour cherries it was some of
the best wine I've ever made. I've fount that tart apples (staymen) as
compared to sweeter apples make the best wine also. Good luck.



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 03:28 AM
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

Wait, don't throw your batch out after 3 weeks! That's a little young to
think of tossing something. Cherry wine can take awhile, a year or more....
If it doesn't taste good at 1 year old, then consider making it into a wine
cooler by adding 7-up or something.
Darlene

"Nick R" wrote in message
k.net...
I was wondering if you could share your recipes for the tart apples and

sour
cherries. I made my first batch of wine out of fresh sour cherries.

After
3 weeks I tasted it and it wasn't very good at all. I might have to end

up
tossing it. I will have some apples soon, and I would love to have your
recipe, since you have had good luck. thanks.

"PA-ter" wrote in message
m...
Don't know all the technical jargon as stated above as to the how &
why but all the cherry wine I ever tried to make with sweet cherrys
lacked flavor big time. Even tried to mix it with other wines (a
couple of times) with no luck. Ended up giving it away & don't know if
it ever got drank. Made the same way with sour cherries it was some of
the best wine I've ever made. I've fount that tart apples (staymen) as
compared to sweeter apples make the best wine also. Good luck.







  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 03:28 AM
Dar V
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

Wait, don't throw your batch out after 3 weeks! That's a little young to
think of tossing something. Cherry wine can take awhile, a year or more....
If it doesn't taste good at 1 year old, then consider making it into a wine
cooler by adding 7-up or something.
Darlene

"Nick R" wrote in message
k.net...
I was wondering if you could share your recipes for the tart apples and

sour
cherries. I made my first batch of wine out of fresh sour cherries.

After
3 weeks I tasted it and it wasn't very good at all. I might have to end

up
tossing it. I will have some apples soon, and I would love to have your
recipe, since you have had good luck. thanks.

"PA-ter" wrote in message
m...
Don't know all the technical jargon as stated above as to the how &
why but all the cherry wine I ever tried to make with sweet cherrys
lacked flavor big time. Even tried to mix it with other wines (a
couple of times) with no luck. Ended up giving it away & don't know if
it ever got drank. Made the same way with sour cherries it was some of
the best wine I've ever made. I've fount that tart apples (staymen) as
compared to sweeter apples make the best wine also. Good luck.





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Old 13-07-2004, 04:36 AM
Karen Heim
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

The sweet cherry wine I made also lacked flavor at first. Then I got a
recommendation to add some mahlab (cherry pits that have had the
toxicity taken out) to the fermentation. What a difference! Suddenly my
wine tasted like cherry pie! I love it! Check your local
middle-eastern grocery for mahlab.

Karen

PA-ter wrote:

Don't know all the technical jargon as stated above as to the how &
why but all the cherry wine I ever tried to make with sweet cherrys
lacked flavor big time. Even tried to mix it with other wines (a
couple of times) with no luck. Ended up giving it away & don't know if
it ever got drank. Made the same way with sour cherries it was some of
the best wine I've ever made. I've fount that tart apples (staymen) as
compared to sweeter apples make the best wine also. Good luck.


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2004, 08:36 AM
Phil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

It should taste sweet at those numbers as you suspected and never add
sulfite to an active fermentation.


Thanks for the advice Joe! That's the kind of info I'm looking for!


I let mine finish before
transfering, but if you still have solids in there that could impact
the decision.


They were whole cherries with the pits on and I even had some creepy
crawlers and a couple of leaves in there. The fermentation was open
(lid loosley set on top) for a couple of days, but I got paronoid and
airlocked it for the rest of the first week.
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Old 13-07-2004, 08:47 AM
Phil
 
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Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?


I wouldn't say that. It's not clear to me whether Jack is saying that
sweet cherries make a less desirable wine because of the balance issue
alone, or whether it goes beyond this. Personally, I'd rather have to
acidify than to deacidify so, given a choice between sour *or* sweet
cherries, my preferrence would be with the sweet cherries *when
considering the balance issue alone*.


When you say, 'acidify', what do you mean? I brew beer (this is my
1st EVER wine!) and sometimes 'acidify' my sparge water with lactic
acid. I do have PH strips. What am I looking for? When do I
'acidify'? Is lactic acid a sufficent substance to 'acidify' with?



so I would be in
favour of a blend of sweet and sour cherries. It really depends on
your approach to de/acidification, but assuming you're happy going
either way I'd go with the blend.


I'm gonna do this next year. (do a blend of sour and sweet) the cherry
season is pretty much over now.



I just transferred my all sweet cherry wine to the secondary today
after one week in the primary. The og was 1.096 and now it's at
1.050. Is this normal? I tasted the gravity sample and it was sweet


Sure, it's normal to have such an SG after a week. If you're only
fermenting juice, I'd transfer much closer to dryness or at dryness.
If you are pulp fermenting or you have a lot of SS you may want to
transfer earlier (as Joe suggested).


Yes Ben I was 'pulp' fermenting. (learned a new term;-) and I was just
following what it said in the recipie. FWIW my gravity sample jar had
pulp and all kinds of crap in it. Not sure it this had an effect on
the reading. It started to ferment again to beat the band! Foam on
top and lots of airlock activity. It really gives me peace of mind to
get it out of the plastic bucket off the couple of leaves, creepy
crawlers, pits, and pulp, and into a sterilized glass baloon with a
sterilzed stopper and airlock.

Phil


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Old 13-07-2004, 08:51 AM
Phil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

"Ray" wrote in message m...
All I can get is sweet cherries so that is what I use. I have not really
been disappointed but have nothing to compare with.


Great to hear! I'm glad to hear someone satified with their final all
sweet cherry product!


underway so don't worry about it. It will pretty much take care of itself.
If it comes out a bit off then concern yourself with adjustments but don't
worry until then.


What kind of adjustments?


Your SG is a little high but if it is fermenting well, and it sounds like it
is, once again don't worry, it will do fine.


Yes it's fermenting in the air locked glass baloon just great!


I would not recommend another racking until it stops fermenting. When the
airlock stops doing anything, wait a couple of weeks or even a month so it
will drop most of it's sediment and then rack and top up. That is when you
might add meta. If you open it after it stops, then you will need to top up
even if you do not rack.


That sounds like some sage advice. I'll do it like you said. I have
lots of time and I'll just let this sucker go.
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Old 13-07-2004, 08:51 AM
Phil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

"Ray" wrote in message m...
All I can get is sweet cherries so that is what I use. I have not really
been disappointed but have nothing to compare with.


Great to hear! I'm glad to hear someone satified with their final all
sweet cherry product!


underway so don't worry about it. It will pretty much take care of itself.
If it comes out a bit off then concern yourself with adjustments but don't
worry until then.


What kind of adjustments?


Your SG is a little high but if it is fermenting well, and it sounds like it
is, once again don't worry, it will do fine.


Yes it's fermenting in the air locked glass baloon just great!


I would not recommend another racking until it stops fermenting. When the
airlock stops doing anything, wait a couple of weeks or even a month so it
will drop most of it's sediment and then rack and top up. That is when you
might add meta. If you open it after it stops, then you will need to top up
even if you do not rack.


That sounds like some sage advice. I'll do it like you said. I have
lots of time and I'll just let this sucker go.
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Old 13-07-2004, 06:04 PM
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?


"Phil" wrote in message
om...
"Ray" wrote in message

m...
All I can get is sweet cherries so that is what I use. I have not

really
been disappointed but have nothing to compare with.


Great to hear! I'm glad to hear someone satified with their final all
sweet cherry product!


underway so don't worry about it. It will pretty much take care of

itself.
If it comes out a bit off then concern yourself with adjustments but

don't
worry until then.


What kind of adjustments?

The main adjustments I make are acidity and tannin. Both can be done by
taste but do not try to do it all at one time or you will probably over do
it. On the first racking after it clears, taste it to see if you think it
need extra acidity or tannin. Add a bit if you think it need it. Do the
same on the next racking. Remember, it is easier to add than take away so
go easy. You can check acidity by titration but remember, taste is more
important than the correct reading.

If you go in for that sort of thing you can also check the pH to adjust the
meta. I do sometimes and sometimes I just go by feel.

Ray


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Old 13-07-2004, 08:08 PM
Ben Rotter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is sour cherry wine better than sweet cherry wine?

(Phil) wrote:
When you say, 'acidify', what do you mean? I brew beer (this is my
1st EVER wine!) and sometimes 'acidify' my sparge water with lactic
acid. I do have PH strips. What am I looking for? When do I
'acidify'? Is lactic acid a sufficent substance to 'acidify' with?


To acidify simply means to add acid to the must/wine. This obviously
increases the tartness and decreases the pH. The former (for tartness)
is only necessary when the must/wine lacks acidity/tartness, the
latter is only necessary when at excessively high pH (and is then done
for reasons of stability). A desirable pH range would be 3.0-3.6, with
whites lying in the lower half of this range and reds lying in the
upper half. I wouldn't acidify with lactic acid (at least not by any
significant degree) because this will give a lactic (milky/cheesy)
character. Use tartaric or malic acid instead.

Yes Ben I was 'pulp' fermenting. (learned a new term;-) and I was just
following what it said in the recipie. FWIW my gravity sample jar had
pulp and all kinds of crap in it. Not sure it this had an effect on
the reading.


Yes, it does.

It started to ferment again to beat the band! Foam on
top and lots of airlock activity. It really gives me peace of mind to
get it out of the plastic bucket off the couple of leaves, creepy
crawlers, pits, and pulp, and into a sterilized glass baloon with a
sterilzed stopper and airlock.


Sounds good then.

HTH,
Ben


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