john west++++ wrote:
|living in london u.k. the cheapest wine here i have seen is 6 around
|dollars.

Some of that price is bound to be due to tariffs or 'sin' taxes raising
the price of (real) wine sky high.

For fine wines that are truly domestic to the state of Oregon, the
consumer ought to be expected to pony up $7.95 or up for something as
nice as Honeywood's Blackberry or Raspberry wine. However, fine grape
wines are double, triple that (and however much more aged they are, a
respectfully higher price ought to be expected).

Unless there is something I don't know about, the price of a packet of
Sweet'n'Low (saccharin) or Equal (Aspartame) or some of the newer
sweeteners like sucralose ought to be an acceptable alternative for
making some of those really cheap 'unbearable' wines more palatable.

Say, does London, UK have rotguts like "Mad Dog" (various fruit-flavored
beverages made by Mogen-David) or "Night Train" (ugh, echhh) that you
could add an artificial sweetener to?

"Matthew Montchalin" > wrote
> Say, does London, UK have rotguts like "Mad Dog" (various fruit-flavored
> beverages made by Mogen-David) or "Night Train" (ugh, echhh) that you
> could add an artificial sweetener to?
OMG, Night Train! LOL!! Used to suck it down when I was a kid! Used to
drink a lot of Gallo Hearty Burgundy too, 1.5 litres a night.....
In America we are being bombarded by East European wines, Romanian,
Serbian, etc; is this happening across the pond as well?
Bob<><

"Bob" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Matthew Montchalin" > wrote
> > Say, does London, UK have rotguts like "Mad Dog" (various fruit-flavored
> > beverages made by Mogen-David) or "Night Train" (ugh, echhh) that you
> > could add an artificial sweetener to?
> OMG, Night Train! LOL!! Used to suck it down when I was a kid! Used to
> drink a lot of Gallo Hearty Burgundy too, 1.5 litres a night.....
> In America we are being bombarded by East European wines, Romanian,
> Serbian, etc; is this happening across the pond as well?
> Bob<><

i think i've seen mad dog, but not night train. not a lot of extra east
european wines lately here, although we have always had some imported from
some
east european countries over the years.
its not that 'sweetener' is needed; more like something to counteract the
'vinegar' taste.
yours john


>
>

On Thu, 27 May 2004, john west++++ wrote:
|> OMG, Night Train! LOL!! Used to suck it down when I was a kid! Used to
|> drink a lot of Gallo Hearty Burgundy too, 1.5 litres a night.....
|> In America we are being bombarded by East European wines, Romanian,
|> Serbian, etc; is this happening across the pond as well?
|> Bob<><
|
|i think i've seen mad dog, but not night train. not a lot of extra east
|european wines lately here, although we have always had some imported
|from some east european countries over the years.
|its not that 'sweetener' is needed; more like something to counteract
|the 'vinegar' taste.

Then it is merely a matter of controlling the pH level?

|On Thu, 27 May 2004, john west++++ wrote:
||> OMG, Night Train! LOL!! Used to suck it down when I was a kid! Used to
||> drink a lot of Gallo Hearty Burgundy too, 1.5 litres a night.....
||> In America we are being bombarded by East European wines, Romanian,
||> Serbian, etc; is this happening across the pond as well?
||> Bob<><
||
||i think i've seen mad dog, but not night train. not a lot of extra east
||european wines lately here, although we have always had some imported
||from some east european countries over the years.
||its not that 'sweetener' is needed; more like something to counteract
||the 'vinegar' taste.
|
|Then it is merely a matter of controlling the pH level?

On second thought, you may be referring to the taste of acetaldehyde,
a rather harsh and unpleasant byproduct of distilling mash at too high of
a temperature. East European wines may be compensating for poor crop
production by distilling a mash at a high temperature, and then
supplementing the wine with an unnaturally high level of alcohol.
(And then people wonder why your tariffs are set up the way they are,
they are there to protect you from those countries with poor consumer
products.) You might be able to extract the acetaldehyde by causing the
beverage to undergo a second distillation employing a cold 'vacuum'
instead of high heat. The liquid is still passed through a coil to
condense it, but the molecular weight for acetaldehyde implies a
different condensation temperature, and you might be able to improve
the stuff that way.

|||its not that 'sweetener' is needed; more like something to counteract
|||the 'vinegar' taste.
||
||Then it is merely a matter of controlling the pH level?
|
|On second thought, you may be referring to the taste of acetaldehyde,
|a rather harsh and unpleasant byproduct of distilling mash at too high of
|a temperature. East European wines may be compensating for poor crop
|production by distilling a mash at a high temperature, and then
|supplementing the wine with an unnaturally high level of alcohol.
|(And then people wonder why your tariffs are set up the way they are,
|they are there to protect you from those countries with poor consumer
|products.) You might be able to extract the acetaldehyde by causing the
|beverage to undergo a second distillation employing a cold 'vacuum'
|instead of high heat. The liquid is still passed through a coil to
|condense it, but the molecular weight for acetaldehyde implies a
|different condensation temperature, and you might be able to improve
|the stuff that way.

It is fairly inexpensive to build your own vacuum extractor using nothing
more than some copper tubing, and some compressors made of motors and
cooling fins. There are some old Scientific American articles from
25 to 35 years ago about building some backyard "garage" type vacuum
extractors/compressors for this sort of thing. Iirc, they said it
was great for liquefying certain gasses like Freon-11 and Freon-12 or
even solidifying CO2 into dry ice, but clearly you could also use it for
vacuum extraction or "pressing" of unpalatable pollutants from your
god-awful "cheap" East European wines, too.

What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled, and
"mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it with
whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
composition of wine!

"Matthew Montchalin" > wrote in message
...
> |On Thu, 27 May 2004, john west++++ wrote:
> ||> OMG, Night Train! LOL!! Used to suck it down when I was a kid!
Used to
> ||> drink a lot of Gallo Hearty Burgundy too, 1.5 litres a night.....
> ||> In America we are being bombarded by East European wines,
Romanian,
> ||> Serbian, etc; is this happening across the pond as well?
> ||> Bob<><
> ||
> ||i think i've seen mad dog, but not night train. not a lot of extra east
> ||european wines lately here, although we have always had some imported
> ||from some east european countries over the years.
> ||its not that 'sweetener' is needed; more like something to counteract
> ||the 'vinegar' taste.
> |
> |Then it is merely a matter of controlling the pH level?
>
> On second thought, you may be referring to the taste of acetaldehyde,
> a rather harsh and unpleasant byproduct of distilling mash at too high of
> a temperature. East European wines may be compensating for poor crop
> production by distilling a mash at a high temperature, and then
> supplementing the wine with an unnaturally high level of alcohol.
> (And then people wonder why your tariffs are set up the way they are,
> they are there to protect you from those countries with poor consumer
> products.) You might be able to extract the acetaldehyde by causing the
> beverage to undergo a second distillation employing a cold 'vacuum'
> instead of high heat. The liquid is still passed through a coil to
> condense it, but the molecular weight for acetaldehyde implies a
> different condensation temperature, and you might be able to improve
> the stuff that way.
>

"Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled, and
> "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
> interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it with
> whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
> composition of wine!
>
where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are not
happy about people getting hold of that?

"john west++++" > wrote in message
news:AY0vc.17$C15.5@newsfe1-win...
>
> "Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled, and
> > "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
> > interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it
with
> > whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
> > composition of wine!
> >
> where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are not
> happy about people getting hold of that?
It's available in liquor stores; seems to me it's about 195 proof.
There's a brand name, but I'll be darned if I remember what it is! Seems to
me it has corn on the label, pictures of plants or ears....

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "john west++++" > wrote in message
> news:AY0vc.17$C15.5@newsfe1-win...
> >
> > "Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled,
and
> > > "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
> > > interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it
> with
> > > whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
> > > composition of wine!
> > >
> > where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are not
> > happy about people getting hold of that?
> It's available in liquor stores; seems to me it's about 195 proof.
> There's a brand name, but I'll be darned if I remember what it is! Seems
to
> me it has corn on the label, pictures of plants or ears....
The brand name is EVERCLEAR! Soon as I posted I knew it! LOL!!!!

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >
> > "john west++++" > wrote in message
> > news:AY0vc.17$C15.5@newsfe1-win...
> > >
> > > "Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > > What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled,
> and
> > > > "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
> > > > interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix
it
> > with
> > > > whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor
and
> > > > composition of wine!
> > > >
> > > where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are
not
> > > happy about people getting hold of that?
> > It's available in liquor stores; seems to me it's about 195 proof.
> > There's a brand name, but I'll be darned if I remember what it is! Seems
> to
> > me it has corn on the label, pictures of plants or ears....
> The brand name is EVERCLEAR! Soon as I posted I knew it! LOL!!!!

well i forget we are across the pond here in london u.k. and things are more
strict here. i have never heard of it being available in this part of the
world.
>
>

Can I just point out one major thing and that is that denatured Alcohol is
LEATHAL it contains about 15% methanol. They denature it, that is make it
unfit for human consumption, so that you can use it with out paying regular
drinking alcohol taxes. What you are talking about is just pure ethanol,
95% is about as good as it gets without vac distilling and can be found at
your local liqure store.

Rob

For the love of life DO NOT DRINK DENATURED ALCOHOL.





john west++++ wrote:

>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
>>
>> "Bob" > wrote in message
>> hlink.net...
>> >
>> > "john west++++" > wrote in message
>> > news:AY0vc.17$C15.5@newsfe1-win...
>> > >
>> > > "Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
>> > > ink.net...
>> > > > What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not
>> > > > distilled,
>> and
>> > > > "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
>> > > > interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix
> it
>> > with
>> > > > whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor
> and
>> > > > composition of wine!
>> > > >
>> > > where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are
> not
>> > > happy about people getting hold of that?
>> > It's available in liquor stores; seems to me it's about 195 proof.
>> > There's a brand name, but I'll be darned if I remember what it is!
>> > Seems
>> to
>> > me it has corn on the label, pictures of plants or ears....
>> The brand name is EVERCLEAR! Soon as I posted I knew it! LOL!!!!
>
> well i forget we are across the pond here in london u.k. and things are
> more strict here. i have never heard of it being available in this part of
> the world.
>>
>>

Bob wrote:
|> > "Richard Mateles" > wrote in message
|> > ink.net...
|> > > What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled,
|and
|> > > "mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
|> > > interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it
|> with
|> > > whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
|> > > composition of wine!
|> > >
|> > where can i get undenatured etahnol from. surely the authorities are not
|> > happy about people getting hold of that?
|> It's available in liquor stores; seems to me it's about 195 proof.
|> There's a brand name, but I'll be darned if I remember what it is! Seems
|to
|> me it has corn on the label, pictures of plants or ears....
| The brand name is EVERCLEAR! Soon as I posted I knew it! LOL!!!!

Didn't they used to call it firewater in the olden days?

Anybody can make rotgut, but being able to pass it off as wine is
something that is best left to professionals like Bartles and James
or Mogen David. And speaking of which, "low pressure" extraction
of the volatile compounds is bound to be much more fruitful than
trying to distill it over a flame like Snuffy Smith used to. And
think of all the uses you can put the condensed vapors to - the more
flowery the stuff is, the more likely you can make your own perfumes.

In article . net>,
Richard Mateles > top-posted
:
>What in heaven's name are you talking about? Wine is not distilled, and
>"mash" is not a term used in production of wine. If you're simply
>interested in getting drunk, get some undenatured etahnol, and mix it with
>whatever you like. Then you won't have to worry about the flavor and
>composition of wine!

This is why top-posting, instead of quoting properly, is a bad idea.
This question should have landed directly below:

>> On second thought, you may be referring to the taste of acetaldehyde,
>> a rather harsh and unpleasant byproduct of distilling mash at too high of
>> a temperature. East European wines may be compensating for poor crop
>> production by distilling a mash at a high temperature, and then
>> supplementing the wine with an unnaturally high level of alcohol.

--which answers your question.

He's not adovcating such things, he's observing that the quality problem
may be that the "wine" in question isn't really wine.

hawk

--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \