I know there have been quite a few posts about BK kits lately....and I
have one question myself about the Lodi Zin kit. Has anyone that's
used this kit changed the yeast? Should I use the cuvee, or is there
another yeast that might give better results?

I did a Luna Rossa last year using the cuvee, and it turned out pretty
well I thought. I know Richard has used the Red Star pasteur red with
good results, and I'm curious if anybody's tried something else with
the Zin kit.

Thanks,
Broham

I've not changed the yeast for the Old Vine Zin, but I have used Lalvin RC-212
in a few other reds, with nice results.

Here's an old post from Ed Goist on the subject of pH change
during cold stabilization. A very interesting wine phenomena. I've had the
big drop of pH in wines with low pH before cold stabilization and I'm a
believer.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas


From Ed Goist, February 2001
In wines with 11 to 13% alcohol cold stabilization will affect pH as
follows;

start pH pH change due to cold stabilization
3.20 or less noticeable, substantial decrease in pH
3.21-3.40 slight decrease in pH
3.41-3.60 very minimal change in pH
3.61-3.75 slight increase in pH
3.76 or more noticeable, substantial increase in pH

This is because of the pKa for potassium bitartrate of 3.55
bitartrates are effectively an alkaline substance for a wine with an
overall pH of 3.5 or lower,
and they are effectively an acid substance for a wine with an overall
pH of 3.6 or higher.

When tartrates are removed from wine with a very low pH, an alkaline
constituent is
effectively being removed and a greater proportion of acid
constituents overall will be
dissociated. This will cause the pH to decrease.

When tartrates are removed from a wine with a very high pH, an acidic
constituent is
effectively being removed and a smaller proportion of acid
constituents overall will be
dissociated. This will cause the pH to increase.

I have put into bulk aging a Selection Estate Lodi Zin kit -- this is the
first one I have done and I didn't try anything different other than I
didn't fine and I didn't use sorbate. I can't comment in reality for about
another year. But I do generally use yeasts that are different to the ones
supplied by BK but not always!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
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"Broham" <nomail@thisplace> wrote in message
...
> I know there have been quite a few posts about BK kits lately....and I
> have one question myself about the Lodi Zin kit. Has anyone that's
> used this kit changed the yeast? Should I use the cuvee, or is there
> another yeast that might give better results?
>
> I did a Luna Rossa last year using the cuvee, and it turned out pretty
> well I thought. I know Richard has used the Red Star pasteur red with
> good results, and I'm curious if anybody's tried something else with
> the Zin kit.
>
> Thanks,
> Broham

> I know there have been quite a few posts about BK kits lately....and I
> have one question myself about the Lodi Zin kit. Has anyone that's
> used this kit changed the yeast? Should I use the cuvee, or is there
> another yeast that might give better results?

If by cuvee you mean a EC-1118 equivilent then you can't go wrong
by *not* using it. The only reason it's there is that it's a very
forgiving, alcohol tolerant and aggressive yeast. Providing it in
a kit leads to less problems for the kit manufacturer. Search Google
for Scott Labs and look at their descriptions of the various yeasts.
No one yeast fits all wines but yeast induced flavours apparently
disappear over a couple of years.

Don

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> Here's an old post from Ed Goist on the subject of pH change
> during cold stabilization. A very interesting wine phenomena. I've had
the
> big drop of pH in wines with low pH before cold stabilization and I'm a
> believer.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas
>
>
> From Ed Goist, February 2001
> In wines with 11 to 13% alcohol cold stabilization will affect pH as
> follows;
>
> start pH pH change due to cold stabilization
> 3.20 or less noticeable, substantial decrease in pH
> 3.21-3.40 slight decrease in pH
> 3.41-3.60 very minimal change in pH
> 3.61-3.75 slight increase in pH
> 3.76 or more noticeable, substantial increase in pH
>
> This is because of the pKa for potassium bitartrate of 3.55
> bitartrates are effectively an alkaline substance for a wine with an
> overall pH of 3.5 or lower,
> and they are effectively an acid substance for a wine with an
overall
> pH of 3.6 or higher.
>
> When tartrates are removed from wine with a very low pH, an alkaline
> constituent is
> effectively being removed and a greater proportion of acid
> constituents overall will be
> dissociated. This will cause the pH to decrease.
>
> When tartrates are removed from a wine with a very high pH, an
acidic
> constituent is
> effectively being removed and a smaller proportion of acid
> constituents overall will be
> dissociated. This will cause the pH to increase.
>

Hi Bill

It should be noted here that this is a "tartaric" phenomenon. Kit
manufacturers intentionally remove tartaric acid from their kits
which places them in the "non-tartaric" category. They do this
because they know that their customers have neither the equipment
nor patience to perform the additional step of cold stabilizing a
kit wine. HTH

PS - For some reason this showed up as part of a thread about
BK Lodi Zin on my reader. Which is why I commented on this.

On 29 Jan 2004 13:04:17 -0800, (Don S) wrote:

>> I know there have been quite a few posts about BK kits lately....and I
>> have one question myself about the Lodi Zin kit. Has anyone that's
>> used this kit changed the yeast? Should I use the cuvee, or is there
>> another yeast that might give better results?
>
>If by cuvee you mean a EC-1118 equivilent then you can't go wrong
>by *not* using it. The only reason it's there is that it's a very
>forgiving, alcohol tolerant and aggressive yeast. Providing it in
>a kit leads to less problems for the kit manufacturer. Search Google
>for Scott Labs and look at their descriptions of the various yeasts.
>No one yeast fits all wines but yeast induced flavours apparently
>disappear over a couple of years.
>
>Don


You'll have to forgive my ignorance Don. I have no idea if the cuvee
is a EC-1118 equiv. or not. This is my second batch of wine........

Do you have any recommendations as to a yeast that may go well with
the Lodi Zin ???

Thanks.

> You'll have to forgive my ignorance Don. I have no idea if the cuvee
> is a EC-1118 equiv. or not. This is my second batch of wine........

I think it is, kit makers tend to use this champagne yeast
because the characteristics are good for guaranteed completion
of the fermentation.

>
> Do you have any recommendations as to a yeast that may go well with
> the Lodi Zin ???

There are probably more than a few that would work well but
the trouble is finding them in less than pound quantities.
I've used RC-212 alot because it's certainly better than
the curvee/1118 and more oriented at reds. It's also available
in 5 gm packets. Lalvin, which seems to be the only yeast
available around here, has about 5 yeasts in 5 gm packets.
Look at this chart and some of the links in the left menu
bar:

http://consumer.lallemand.com/dansta.../refchart.html

Here is a link for Lalvin yeast at piwine.com

http://shop.piwine.com/shopsite/prwc/lalvin.html

If you live in Ontario, Canada apparently Funk Wines in the
Niagara region repackages BM-45 in 5 gm quantities. In the
US there may be some re-packager as well but I'm not aware
of them. If this is only your second kit, go for the RC-212
if you can find it.

Don

EC-1118 and Red Star Premier Cuvee are both bayanus strains, and
pretty similar. However, in my limited experience I've found that the
EC-1118 leaves the wine with fewer of the undesirable organoleptic
(taste/aroma) properties that I notice with Premier Cuvee.

I did my Lodi Zin kit with the Premier Cuvee -- it was the last kit I
did before I started experimenting. I did it pretty much as Trevor
did. I wouldn't use Pasteur Red -- I don't think the floral notes it
adds or accents would be complementary. I'm not sure what I'd use.
Maybe something like RC-212.

Cheers,
Richard

(Don S) wrote in message om>...
> > You'll have to forgive my ignorance Don. I have no idea if the cuvee
> > is a EC-1118 equiv. or not. This is my second batch of wine........
>
> I think it is, kit makers tend to use this champagne yeast
> because the characteristics are good for guaranteed completion
> of the fermentation.
>
> >
> > Do you have any recommendations as to a yeast that may go well with
> > the Lodi Zin ???
>
> There are probably more than a few that would work well but
> the trouble is finding them in less than pound quantities.
> I've used RC-212 alot because it's certainly better than
> the curvee/1118 and more oriented at reds. It's also available
> in 5 gm packets. Lalvin, which seems to be the only yeast
> available around here, has about 5 yeasts in 5 gm packets.
> Look at this chart and some of the links in the left menu
> bar:
>
> http://consumer.lallemand.com/dansta.../refchart.html
>
> Here is a link for Lalvin yeast at piwine.com
>
> http://shop.piwine.com/shopsite/prwc/lalvin.html
>
> If you live in Ontario, Canada apparently Funk Wines in the
> Niagara region repackages BM-45 in 5 gm quantities. In the
> US there may be some re-packager as well but I'm not aware
> of them. If this is only your second kit, go for the RC-212
> if you can find it.
>
> Don