First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.

Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
they are function?

I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
serration? What about the destemer portion?

I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
lurk.

Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
appreciated.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>
> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
> they are function?
>
> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>
> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
> lurk.
>
> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)

The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.

The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
materials that a
1) too soft
2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.

304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
are not good because they rust. Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.

Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
and delrin will also work nicely. You want a durable plastic, one that
is not easily damaged if a hard object falls in between the two rollers
(like a wayward rock or tool or such).

Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
it. Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
(though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).

For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. The perforation
holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
inside of the cage. This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
instead of plucking them off the stems. The optimum hole size and
spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
inch centers is my recollection. I'll need to measure one on Monday to
confirm it.

Gene

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:

>Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>>
>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
>> they are function?
>>
>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>>
>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
>> lurk.
>>
>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> (correct email address for reply)
>
>The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
>serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
>grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>
>The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
>materials that a
>1) too soft
>2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
>well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
>3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>
>304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
>brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
>are not good because they rust. Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
>tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
>color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>
>Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
>and delrin will also work nicely. You want a durable plastic, one that
>is not easily damaged if a hard object falls in between the two rollers
>(like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>
>Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
>it. Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
>(though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>
>For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. The perforation
>holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
>inside of the cage. This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
>instead of plucking them off the stems. The optimum hole size and
>spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
>cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
>inch centers is my recollection. I'll need to measure one on Monday to
>confirm it.
>
>Gene

I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.

I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
check on prices.

I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:
>
>> Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
>>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
>>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
>>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
>>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
>>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
>>> they are function?
>>>
>>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
>>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
>>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>>>
>>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
>>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
>>> lurk.
>>>
>>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>>> (correct email address for reply)
>> The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
>> serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
>> grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>>
>> The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
>> materials that a
>> 1) too soft
>> 2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
>> well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
>> 3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>>
>> 304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
>> brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
>> are not good because they rust. Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
>> tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
>> color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>>
>> Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
>> and delrin will also work nicely. You want a durable plastic, one that
>> is not easily damaged if a hard object falls in between the two rollers
>> (like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>>
>> Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
>> it. Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
>> (though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>>
>> For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. The perforation
>> holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
>> inside of the cage. This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
>> instead of plucking them off the stems. The optimum hole size and
>> spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
>> cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
>> inch centers is my recollection. I'll need to measure one on Monday to
>> confirm it.
>>
>> Gene
>
> I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
> say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
> either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.
>
> I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
> thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
> and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
> check on prices.
>
> I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
> doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
> something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.
>
>
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)

For your small lot (100-250 pound) crushes, hardwood rollers may be
worth a first try; they're easy to make and probably not too expensive
to purchase the wood stock. Teak comes to mind as readily available in
Thailand.
Just make sure you sanitize it well after each use; this would be no
different from using a wooden basket press.

Gene

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:38:30 -0700, gene > wrote:

>Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>>>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
>>>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
>>>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
>>>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
>>>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
>>>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
>>>> they are function?
>>>>
>>>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
>>>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
>>>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>>>>
>>>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
>>>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
>>>> lurk.
>>>>
>>>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>>>> (correct email address for reply)
>>> The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
>>> serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
>>> grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>>>
>>> The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
>>> materials that a
>>> 1) too soft
>>> 2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
>>> well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
>>> 3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>>>
>>> 304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
>>> brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
>>> are not good because they rust. Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
>>> tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
>>> color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>>>
>>> Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
>>> and delrin will also work nicely. You want a durable plastic, one that
>>> is not easily damaged if a hard object falls in between the two rollers
>>> (like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>>>
>>> Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
>>> it. Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
>>> (though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>>>
>>> For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. The perforation
>>> holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
>>> inside of the cage. This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
>>> instead of plucking them off the stems. The optimum hole size and
>>> spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
>>> cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
>>> inch centers is my recollection. I'll need to measure one on Monday to
>>> confirm it.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>
>> I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
>> say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
>> either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.
>>
>> I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
>> thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
>> and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
>> check on prices.
>>
>> I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
>> doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
>> something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> (correct email address for reply)
>
>For your small lot (100-250 pound) crushes, hardwood rollers may be
>worth a first try; they're easy to make and probably not too expensive
>to purchase the wood stock. Teak comes to mind as readily available in
>Thailand.
>Just make sure you sanitize it well after each use; this would be no
>different from using a wooden basket press.
>
>Gene


Actually there is nearly no teak left in Thailand. The majority of the
teak used here actually originates in either Burma or Cambodia.

I am partial to plastics or metal as in the humid climate here mold is
a constant problem.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 20, 8:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok > wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:38:30 -0700, gene > wrote:
> >Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:
>
> >>> Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> >>>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
> >>>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
> >>>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
> >>>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
> >>>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>
> >>>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
> >>>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
> >>>> they are function?
>
> >>>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
> >>>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
> >>>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>
> >>>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
> >>>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
> >>>> lurk.
>
> >>>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
> >>>> appreciated.
>
> >>>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> >>>> (correct email address for reply)
> >>> The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
> >>> serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
> >>> grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>
> >>> The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
> >>> materials that a
> >>> 1) too soft
> >>> 2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
> >>> well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
> >>> 3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>
> >>> 304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
> >>> brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
> >>> are not good because they rust. *Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
> >>> tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
> >>> color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>
> >>> Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
> >>> and delrin will also work nicely. *You want a durable plastic, one that
> >>> is not easily damaged if a *hard object falls in between the two rollers
> >>> (like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>
> >>> Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
> >>> it. *Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
> >>> (though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>
> >>> For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. *The perforation
> >>> holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
> >>> inside of the cage. *This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
> >>> instead of plucking them off the stems. *The optimum hole size and
> >>> spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
> >>> cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
> >>> inch centers is my recollection. *I'll need to measure one on Monday to
> >>> confirm it.
>
> >>> Gene
>
> >> I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
> >> say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
> >> either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.
>
> >> I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
> >> thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
> >> and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
> >> check on prices.
>
> >> I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
> >> doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
> >> something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.
>
> >> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> >> (correct email address for reply)
>
> >For your small lot (100-250 pound) crushes, hardwood rollers may be
> >worth a first try; they're easy to make and probably not too expensive
> >to purchase the wood stock. *Teak comes to mind as readily available in
> >Thailand.
> >Just make sure you sanitize it well after each use; this would be no
> >different from using a wooden basket press.
>
> >Gene
>
> Actually there is nearly no teak left in Thailand. The majority of the
> teak used here actually originates in either Burma or Cambodia.
>
> I am partial to plastics or metal as in the humid climate here mold is
> a constant problem.
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Then a pair of cylindrical gears would seem to make sense. If you
look on the internet you can visualize how these are usually built.

Mine is a cross between an apple crusher and grape crusher; it looks
like a cylindrical bed of nails and the 'nails' go through a pair of
combs. The nails are v shaped. I can raise or lower the cylinder to
adjust the distance between cylinder and comb. My cylinder looks like
cast aluminum. I'm wondering if you could mill a cylinder down into
'V's in a croshatch on a lathe and milling machine.

Joe

Joe

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:18:47 -0700 (PDT), Joe Sallustio
> wrote:

>On Apr 20, 8:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok > wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:38:30 -0700, gene > wrote:
>> >Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:
>>
>> >>> Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>> >>>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
>> >>>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
>> >>>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
>> >>>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
>> >>>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>>
>> >>>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
>> >>>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
>> >>>> they are function?
>>
>> >>>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
>> >>>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
>> >>>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>>
>> >>>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
>> >>>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
>> >>>> lurk.
>>
>> >>>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
>> >>>> appreciated.
>>
>> >>>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> >>>> (correct email address for reply)
>> >>> The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
>> >>> serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
>> >>> grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>>
>> >>> The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
>> >>> materials that a
>> >>> 1) too soft
>> >>> 2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
>> >>> well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
>> >>> 3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>>
>> >>> 304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
>> >>> brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
>> >>> are not good because they rust. *Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
>> >>> tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
>> >>> color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>>
>> >>> Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
>> >>> and delrin will also work nicely. *You want a durable plastic, one that
>> >>> is not easily damaged if a *hard object falls in between the two rollers
>> >>> (like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>>
>> >>> Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
>> >>> it. *Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
>> >>> (though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>>
>> >>> For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. *The perforation
>> >>> holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
>> >>> inside of the cage. *This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
>> >>> instead of plucking them off the stems. *The optimum hole size and
>> >>> spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
>> >>> cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
>> >>> inch centers is my recollection. *I'll need to measure one on Monday to
>> >>> confirm it.
>>
>> >>> Gene
>>
>> >> I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
>> >> say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
>> >> either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.
>>
>> >> I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
>> >> thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
>> >> and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
>> >> check on prices.
>>
>> >> I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
>> >> doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
>> >> something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.
>>
>> >> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> >> (correct email address for reply)
>>
>> >For your small lot (100-250 pound) crushes, hardwood rollers may be
>> >worth a first try; they're easy to make and probably not too expensive
>> >to purchase the wood stock. *Teak comes to mind as readily available in
>> >Thailand.
>> >Just make sure you sanitize it well after each use; this would be no
>> >different from using a wooden basket press.
>>
>> >Gene
>>
>> Actually there is nearly no teak left in Thailand. The majority of the
>> teak used here actually originates in either Burma or Cambodia.
>>
>> I am partial to plastics or metal as in the humid climate here mold is
>> a constant problem.
>>
>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> (correct email address for reply)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Then a pair of cylindrical gears would seem to make sense. If you
>look on the internet you can visualize how these are usually built.
>
>Mine is a cross between an apple crusher and grape crusher; it looks
>like a cylindrical bed of nails and the 'nails' go through a pair of
>combs. The nails are v shaped. I can raise or lower the cylinder to
>adjust the distance between cylinder and comb. My cylinder looks like
>cast aluminum. I'm wondering if you could mill a cylinder down into
>'V's in a croshatch on a lathe and milling machine.
>
>Joe

Getting work done here is not a problem. The engineering shop I use
can read drawings and is used to working to reasonable tolerances so
once I come up with the concept I can get the thing built fairly
cheaply.

Ideally, if I can use an existing device (the squid crusher) as a
basis and reduce the number of machining operations required it will
reduce the time to build as well as cost. Example: the most common
machine tool in a shop is a lathe so lathe time is cheap. Milling
machines are less often used so milling time costs more.

I'm off to town tomorrow and will look more closely at the squid
crushers to see whether they can for a basis for the grape crusher.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Apr 22, 9:58*pm, Bruce in Bangkok > wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:18:47 -0700 (PDT), Joe Sallustio
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Apr 20, 8:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:38:30 -0700, gene > wrote:
> >> >Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:05:28 -0700, gene > wrote:
>
> >> >>> Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> >> >>>> First of all I live in Thailand where the source of wine making
> >> >>>> equipment is strictly limited. To date I have been "crushing" grapes
> >> >>>> by hand, stomping, and rubbing through a plastic basket (similar to a
> >> >>>> milk crate) and to be frank it is a lot of work and I would like to
> >> >>>> build a crusher, possibly a crusher/destemer.
>
> >> >>>> Does anyone have plans, a photograph, or any other data about the
> >> >>>> internal parts, or any other information, regarding crushers and how
> >> >>>> they are function?
>
> >> >>>> I presently envision two geared rollers with adjustable spacing but
> >> >>>> what material for the rollers? Can they be smooth or do they need
> >> >>>> serration? What about the destemer portion?
>
> >> >>>> I have a background in engineering and metal fabrication so the actual
> >> >>>> building will not be a problem, it is in the details where the devils
> >> >>>> lurk.
>
> >> >>>> Any assistance, no matter how rudimentary, will be very greatly
> >> >>>> appreciated.
>
> >> >>>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> >> >>>> (correct email address for reply)
> >> >>> The grapes would tend to slip on smooth rollers; it helps to have a
> >> >>> serrated (or at least very rough) surface to get a bit of a grip on the
> >> >>> grapes to pull them through the crusher rollers.
>
> >> >>> The roller construction material is not too critical. You want to avoid
> >> >>> materials that a
> >> >>> 1) too soft
> >> >>> 2) absorb liquids (bacteria grows in them over time if not
> >> >>> well-sanitized after each use; wood is a good example of this)
> >> >>> 3)degraded by repeated exposure to your sanitizing solution.
>
> >> >>> 304 stainless steel is ideal, electroless nickel plated steel is OK,
> >> >>> brass and aluminum are too soft and easily damaged, bare iron and steel
> >> >>> are not good because they rust. *Avoid coated steel [i.e. galvanized,
> >> >>> tin-coated, cadmium plated, chromate-dipped (a golden, often iridescent
> >> >>> color)]; these coatings leach into the juice.
>
> >> >>> Plastics such as nylon, HDPE (high density polyethylene), polyurethane
> >> >>> and delrin will also work nicely. *You want a durable plastic, one that
> >> >>> is not easily damaged if a *hard object falls in between the two rollers
> >> >>> (like a wayward rock or tool or such).
>
> >> >>> Natural rubber is not a good choice; many kinds of sanitizers degrade
> >> >>> it. *Synthetic rubbers such as EPDM, EPR, viton and silicone will work
> >> >>> (though EPDM and EPR are slowly degraded by many sanitizers).
>
> >> >>> For the destemmer cage, I'd use 304 stainless steel. *The perforation
> >> >>> holes need to have radiused corners, with the convex surface facing the
> >> >>> inside of the cage. *This is key to minimize cutting/tearing the grapes
> >> >>> instead of plucking them off the stems. *The optimum hole size and
> >> >>> spacing is chosen based on the size of the grapes and density of the
> >> >>> cluster... something on the order of 1/2 to 3/4 inch holes on about 2
> >> >>> inch centers is my recollection. *I'll need to measure one on Monday to
> >> >>> confirm it.
>
> >> >>> Gene
>
> >> >> I think that the destemer may be overly complex to build since, as you
> >> >> say, the hole size is dependant on the berry size and that would mean
> >> >> either a series of graduated holes or several different sized screens.
>
> >> >> I had been thinking of stainless tubing rollers but was having second
> >> >> thoughts about the smoothness. I hadn't thought about plastic - nylon
> >> >> and delron is available here in most hardware shops. I'll have to
> >> >> check on prices.
>
> >> >> I usually process 150 - 200 lbs of grapes at a time so this thing
> >> >> doesn't need to be a massive device and I'm presently thinking of
> >> >> something that is hand cranked and sits on top of a barrel.
>
> >> >> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> >> >> (correct email address for reply)
>
> >> >For your small lot (100-250 pound) crushes, hardwood rollers may be
> >> >worth a first try; they're easy to make and probably not too expensive
> >> >to purchase the wood stock. *Teak comes to mind as readily available in
> >> >Thailand.
> >> >Just make sure you sanitize it well after each use; this would be no
> >> >different from using a wooden basket press.
>
> >> >Gene
>
> >> Actually there is nearly no teak left in Thailand. The majority of the
> >> teak used here actually originates in either Burma or Cambodia.
>
> >> I am partial to plastics or metal as in the humid climate here mold is
> >> a constant problem.
>
> >> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> >> (correct email address for reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >Then a pair of cylindrical gears would seem to make sense. *If you
> >look on the internet you can visualize how these are usually built.
>
> >Mine is a cross between an apple crusher and grape crusher; it looks
> >like a cylindrical bed of nails and the 'nails' go through a pair of
> >combs. *The nails are v shaped. *I can raise or lower the cylinder to
> >adjust the distance between cylinder and comb. *My cylinder looks like
> >cast aluminum. *I'm wondering if you could mill a cylinder down into
> >'V's in a croshatch on a lathe and milling machine.
>
> >Joe
>
> Getting work done here is not a problem. The engineering shop I use
> can read drawings and is used to working to reasonable tolerances so
> once I come up with the concept I can get the thing built fairly
> cheaply.
>
> Ideally, if I can use an existing device (the squid crusher) as a
> basis and reduce the number of machining operations required it will
> reduce the time to build as well as cost. Example: the most common
> machine tool in a shop is a lathe so lathe time is cheap. Milling
> machines are less often used so milling time costs more.
>
> I'm off to town tomorrow and will look more closely at the squid
> crushers to see whether they can for a basis for the grape crusher.
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

it sounds like it will work but brass is no longer used in winemaking
and it sounded like it might have brass fittings. It's not like you
are going to leave partially crushed grapes in there for days though.

Joe