I've been told that every time I move the wine, add 50ppm of KSO2. This
goes for crushing, pressing, racking and bottling.

A) I've also been told that if you want MLF to keep SO2 under 30ppm,
and in some cases seen it recommended that you only add so2 in the
crush and not the press. I'd be interested in the range of comments
capable of this board, as I plan on pressing tmw night.

B) Should I just get a SO2 test kit and bring the free SO2 up to 50
from wherever it is? - given that it probably doesn't go to 0.
thanks

On Oct 4, 12:49 pm, wrote:
> I've been told that every time I move the wine, add 50ppm of KSO2. This
> goes for crushing, pressing, racking and bottling.
>
> A) I've also been told that if you want MLF to keep SO2 under 30ppm,
> and in some cases seen it recommended that you only add so2 in the
> crush and not the press. I'd be interested in the range of comments
> capable of this board, as I plan on pressing tmw night.
>
> B) Should I just get a SO2 test kit and bring the free SO2 up to 50
> from wherever it is? - given that it probably doesn't go to 0.
> thanks

That's too much for a red wine. At pressing if you're doing MLF, it's
probably not finished, so adding SO2 would be detrimental. If you rack
carefully, you'd need only about 10-20ppm added.

B) is the way to go - depending on your pH, you might not go to 50ppm,
30 can be enough.

Pp

As I understand it, what we're after is free molecular SO2. How much free
SO2 is generated by any given quantity of KMS (short hand for potassium
metabisulfite) is inversely influenced by pH. Meaning; the more acidic the
must or wine, the greater the free molecular SO2 generated. I use a simple
chart to help me determine the desired level of SO2 to add at crush time.
One chart for red wine, one for white. A good source for info by which to
determine these ratios is Margalit's book.

After crush, I test for free SO2 (recently switched from Ripper to
aeration-oxidation; life is MUCH better!) to determine if I need to add
more. Usually at racking time. Again, I try to keep the freee SO2 within a
range determined by the pH. Before bottling, I try to get free SO2 to 30
ppm.

Personally, I try to minimize the addition of KMS. By testing more
frequently, and only adding as necessary, I hope to keep sulfite additions
to the minimal necessary to protect the wine. I'm one of those 'sensitive
nose' types who can detect when there is too much sulfite in a wine.



> I've been told that every time I move the wine, add 50ppm of KSO2. This
> goes for crushing, pressing, racking and bottling.
>
> A) I've also been told that if you want MLF to keep SO2 under 30ppm,
> and in some cases seen it recommended that you only add so2 in the
> crush and not the press. I'd be interested in the range of comments
> capable of this board, as I plan on pressing tmw night.
>
> B) Should I just get a SO2 test kit and bring the free SO2 up to 50
> from wherever it is? - given that it probably doesn't go to 0.
> thanks
>

Good information from everyone. THanks. But shouldn't I be worried
about protecting the wine during pressing? Or am I missing something?
Also, i was reading another post which said 1 camden tablet is about
..44gm KMS. If that is the case, the recommended 1 tab per gal (that is
supposed to equal 50ppm) really is only half that. If I put gallons in
to milliliters and divide into 1 million parts I get .0038, which is
one millionth of a gallon. Now 50 of those parts is .19 mls or .19gm
and not .44gm. Thoughts?








Ric wrote:
> As I understand it, what we're after is free molecular SO2. How much free
> SO2 is generated by any given quantity of KMS (short hand for potassium
> metabisulfite) is inversely influenced by pH. Meaning; the more acidic the
> must or wine, the greater the free molecular SO2 generated. I use a simple
> chart to help me determine the desired level of SO2 to add at crush time.
> One chart for red wine, one for white. A good source for info by which to
> determine these ratios is Margalit's book.
>
> After crush, I test for free SO2 (recently switched from Ripper to
> aeration-oxidation; life is MUCH better!) to determine if I need to add
> more. Usually at racking time. Again, I try to keep the freee SO2 within a
> range determined by the pH. Before bottling, I try to get free SO2 to 30
> ppm.
>
> Personally, I try to minimize the addition of KMS. By testing more
> frequently, and only adding as necessary, I hope to keep sulfite additions
> to the minimal necessary to protect the wine. I'm one of those 'sensitive
> nose' types who can detect when there is too much sulfite in a wine.
>
>
>
> > I've been told that every time I move the wine, add 50ppm of KSO2. This
> > goes for crushing, pressing, racking and bottling.
> >
> > A) I've also been told that if you want MLF to keep SO2 under 30ppm,
> > and in some cases seen it recommended that you only add so2 in the
> > crush and not the press. I'd be interested in the range of comments
> > capable of this board, as I plan on pressing tmw night.
> >
> > B) Should I just get a SO2 test kit and bring the free SO2 up to 50
> > from wherever it is? - given that it probably doesn't go to 0.
> > thanks
> >

Ric,
What are the Ripper and aeration-oxidation tests? I use the Titrets to
measure SO2.


Ric wrote:
> After crush, I test for free SO2 (recently switched from Ripper to
> aeration-oxidation; life is MUCH better!) to determine if I need to add
> more. Usually at racking time. Again, I try to keep the freee SO2 within a
> range determined by the pH. Before bottling, I try to get free SO2 to 30
> ppm.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've been told that every time I move the wine, add 50ppm of KSO2. This
> goes for crushing, pressing, racking and bottling.
>
> A) I've also been told that if you want MLF to keep SO2 under 30ppm,
> and in some cases seen it recommended that you only add so2 in the
> crush and not the press. I'd be interested in the range of comments
> capable of this board, as I plan on pressing tmw night.
>
> B) Should I just get a SO2 test kit and bring the free SO2 up to 50
> from wherever it is? - given that it probably doesn't go to 0.
> thanks

A more or less standard SO2 regime for a wine intended to go through MLF
would be....
Little or no SO2 at crush (more than 30 PPM will retard MLF)
No further SO2 additions until the wine has finished MLF.
Then add about 50 PPM of SO2 as soon as the wine has finished MLF.
Roughly half of the added 50 PPM will be quickly bound up and about half
will remain as free SO2.
After a week or two, measure the free SO2 and the pH of the wine.
Calculate the amount of free SO2 is needed to produce 0.8 PPM of molecular
SO2 and make the appropriate addition..
Maintain 0.8 PPM of molecular SO2 until the wine is bottled.

I would not buy an SO2 test kit. I would read a book and then buy the
necessary items separately. You will need to practice measuring SO2 in red
wines to become proficient.

Good luck.

Lum - do you think .8 ppm molecular SO2 is necessarily required? Some
literature suggests a range between .5 and .8; I've been tending towards the
lower end of that range in a desire to use as little KMS as possible. Could
be dumb luck, but thus far (only two seasons at those lower levels,
admittedly) no issues.

thoughts?


>
> A more or less standard SO2 regime for a wine intended to go through MLF
> would be....
> Little or no SO2 at crush (more than 30 PPM will retard MLF)
> No further SO2 additions until the wine has finished MLF.
> Then add about 50 PPM of SO2 as soon as the wine has finished MLF.
> Roughly half of the added 50 PPM will be quickly bound up and about half
> will remain as free SO2.
> After a week or two, measure the free SO2 and the pH of the wine.
> Calculate the amount of free SO2 is needed to produce 0.8 PPM of molecular
> SO2 and make the appropriate addition..
> Maintain 0.8 PPM of molecular SO2 until the wine is bottled.
>
> I would not buy an SO2 test kit. I would read a book and then buy the
> necessary items separately. You will need to practice measuring SO2 in
> red
> wines to become proficient.
>
> Good luck.
>
>

I think some terminology may be confusing me. why are we at .8ppm when
up til now we've been adding kms in the range of 50ppm?




Ric wrote:
> Lum - do you think .8 ppm molecular SO2 is necessarily required? Some
> literature suggests a range between .5 and .8; I've been tending towards the
> lower end of that range in a desire to use as little KMS as possible. Could
> be dumb luck, but thus far (only two seasons at those lower levels,
> admittedly) no issues.
>
> thoughts?
>
>
> >
> > A more or less standard SO2 regime for a wine intended to go through MLF
> > would be....
> > Little or no SO2 at crush (more than 30 PPM will retard MLF)
> > No further SO2 additions until the wine has finished MLF.
> > Then add about 50 PPM of SO2 as soon as the wine has finished MLF.
> > Roughly half of the added 50 PPM will be quickly bound up and about half
> > will remain as free SO2.
> > After a week or two, measure the free SO2 and the pH of the wine.
> > Calculate the amount of free SO2 is needed to produce 0.8 PPM of molecular
> > SO2 and make the appropriate addition..
> > Maintain 0.8 PPM of molecular SO2 until the wine is bottled.
> >
> > I would not buy an SO2 test kit. I would read a book and then buy the
> > necessary items separately. You will need to practice measuring SO2 in
> > red
> > wines to become proficient.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> >

KMS is added, depending on pH and winemaking tactic, in amounts ranging from
20 ppm to 50 ppm. Depending on pH, that KMS will create SO2 in a couple
forms - it is the resulting molecular level of "free SO2" that has the
preservative qualities we are after. In other words, one measurement (KMS
added) begets the other (free SO2) - depending on pH.


>I think some terminology may be confusing me. why are we at .8ppm when
> up til now we've been adding kms in the range of 50ppm?
>
>
>

I think a lot of guys on here are confused on here because this group
is becoming a lot like chemistry class. Certain people are on here just
to ensure they don't F*** ** a batch of wine on a very basic level.
Many simply do not have the tools required to measure sulphite levels,
check for completion of MLF, etc. Many of you are miles ahead of the
rest of us. It's usually obvious by the initial question,at what stage
the poster is at. Sometimes the answers,although top knotch in my
opinion,are just basically useless to some of us at times. Trying to
say this as diplomatically as possible. I'm sure it has been addressed
before.

I think a lot of guys on here are confused on here because this group
is becoming a lot like chemistry class. Certain people are on here just
to ensure they don't F*** ** a batch of wine on a very basic level.
Many simply do not have the tools required to measure sulphite levels,
check for completion of MLF, etc. Many of you are miles ahead of the
rest of us. It's usually obvious by the initial question,at what stage
the poster is at. Sometimes the answers,although top knotch in my
opinion,are just basically useless to some of us at times. Trying to
say this as diplomatically as possible. I'm sure it has been addressed
before.

"Ric" > wrote in message
...
> Lum - do you think .8 ppm molecular SO2 is necessarily required? Some
> literature suggests a range between .5 and .8; I've been tending towards
the
> lower end of that range in a desire to use as little KMS as possible.
Could
> be dumb luck, but thus far (only two seasons at those lower levels,
> admittedly) no issues.
>
> thoughts?
>
Ric,
I don't think 0.8 PPM is a magic number. Down here in the southwest, pH
levels tend to be high so many winemakers try and maintain 0.8 PPM for white
wines and 0.5 PPM for red wines. After all, it is possible to make good
wine without using any SO2. But, the wine wont last very long and the
winemaker had better keep things very clean.
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA
www.geocities.com/lumeisenman

Going with the Keep it Simple process, what about this for and approach
for those without a chemistry background or a lot of hardware who want
to use titrettes?

*Ferment the wine and measure the SO2 at completion.
*Assume whatever your are reading is a false positive value because all
of the free SO2 should have been blown off in fermentation.
* Subtract that value from any subsequent reading and maintain sulfite
levels based on this extrapolated value.

Example:
Post fermentation reading = 22 PPM.
Wine is racked and 50 PPM is added
The next rack 42 PPM is measured.
42-22 =20 PPM remaining.
Measure the pH and determine how much SO2 is needed to protect the
wine.

I'm not saying it's a precise process but I do think either Lum or Ben
Rotter proposed that a while back and it's intriguing.

As to the 0.8 molecular; it's a more precise way to discuss sulfite
levels in wine. The general value of 50 PPM is based on maintaining
0.8 molecular at a pH of 3.6.

I can post a chart of pH vs recommended PPM sulfite from Margalit but I
think it's already in the FAQ.

Joe

Lum Eisenman wrote:
> "Ric" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Lum - do you think .8 ppm molecular SO2 is necessarily required? Some
> > literature suggests a range between .5 and .8; I've been tending towards
> the
> > lower end of that range in a desire to use as little KMS as possible.
> Could
> > be dumb luck, but thus far (only two seasons at those lower levels,
> > admittedly) no issues.
> >
> > thoughts?
> >
> Ric,
> I don't think 0.8 PPM is a magic number. Down here in the southwest, pH
> levels tend to be high so many winemakers try and maintain 0.8 PPM for white
> wines and 0.5 PPM for red wines. After all, it is possible to make good
> wine without using any SO2. But, the wine wont last very long and the
> winemaker had better keep things very clean.
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
> www.geocities.com/lumeisenman

Interesting suggestion. I'll need to go back through my recent past
winemaking notes to determine if the primary assumption (that "all of the
free SO2 has blown off in fermentation") holds true in my own experience. To
my recollection there is usually some significant free SO2 remaining after
primary. Maybe not enough to invalidate your suggested recipe approach
though.

The problem, of course, with all these 'recipe' approaches is that the
underlying premise is that all wines are more or less equal and that all
winemaking situations more or less the same. I don't find that to be true.
To my mind the only way to control the winemaking process is to have
reasonably empirical information on which to base winemaking decisions.
Biggest improvement in my own winemaking life was this year when I moved
from Ripper to A-O for SO2 measurement. Once you get the hang of it, the A-O
methodology is pretty straightforward (certainly easier than Ripper) and
fun.

I guess for those making small lots on an infrequent basis the investment of
$ and time is not worth it and a more programmatic approach is the easiest
and most efficient. But if the goal is to make 'quality' wine on a
consistent basis then knowing SO2 levels and making informed decisions is
critical, MHO.




> Going with the Keep it Simple process, what about this for and approach
> for those without a chemistry background or a lot of hardware who want
> to use titrettes?
>
> *Ferment the wine and measure the SO2 at completion.
> *Assume whatever your are reading is a false positive value because all
> of the free SO2 should have been blown off in fermentation.
> * Subtract that value from any subsequent reading and maintain sulfite
> levels based on this extrapolated value.
>
> Example:
> Post fermentation reading = 22 PPM.
> Wine is racked and 50 PPM is added
> The next rack 42 PPM is measured.
> 42-22 =20 PPM remaining.
> Measure the pH and determine how much SO2 is needed to protect the
> wine.
>
> I'm not saying it's a precise process but I do think either Lum or Ben
> Rotter proposed that a while back and it's intriguing.
>
> As to the 0.8 molecular; it's a more precise way to discuss sulfite
> levels in wine. The general value of 50 PPM is based on maintaining
> 0.8 molecular at a pH of 3.6.
>
> I can post a chart of pH vs recommended PPM sulfite from Margalit but I
> think it's already in the FAQ.
>
> Joe
>
> Lum Eisenman wrote:
>> "Ric" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Lum - do you think .8 ppm molecular SO2 is necessarily required? Some
>> > literature suggests a range between .5 and .8; I've been tending
>> > towards
>> the
>> > lower end of that range in a desire to use as little KMS as possible.
>> Could
>> > be dumb luck, but thus far (only two seasons at those lower levels,
>> > admittedly) no issues.
>> >
>> > thoughts?
>> >
>> Ric,
>> I don't think 0.8 PPM is a magic number. Down here in the southwest, pH
>> levels tend to be high so many winemakers try and maintain 0.8 PPM for
>> white
>> wines and 0.5 PPM for red wines. After all, it is possible to make good
>> wine without using any SO2. But, the wine wont last very long and the
>> winemaker had better keep things very clean.
>> Lum
>> Del Mar, California, USA
>> www.geocities.com/lumeisenman
>