Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?

Thanks.












CPJ

wrote:
> Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
> America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?
>
> Thanks.

Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
Soave.

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> CPJ

A wine from muscat canelli grapes from Italy or the Left Coast---usually
7-10% alcohol but sweet--the muscat canelli is found in Asti Spumante but
those are higher in alcohol.
Three of the best from Italy are Rivetti, Morandina and Vietti---labels will
say Moscato d' Asti.

I think Robert Mondavi's Moscato d'Oro may be around. The best is the
Moscato Amabile made by Louis Martini---it sold only at the winery as it is
frizzante(spritzy)
At one time Sutter Home & Robert Pecota had good distribution.

Anything older than 2004 is a shadow of it's self. Wholesalers in your area
who haven't moved out their 2003 or 2004s, will not order 2005, so you need
help from a merchant in seeing what is available---There are other wines
from France & Australia made from a different clone of muscat---they are
higher in alcohol and more like syrup.


"UC" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> wrote:
> > Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
> > America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
> Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
> Soave.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > CPJ
>

White wines are almost always more acidic than reds.

> Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
> Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
> Soave.
>
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>> CPJ
>

Ric wrote:
> White wines are almost always more acidic than reds.

Nonsense.

>
> > Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
> > Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
> > Soave.
> >
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> >> CPJ
> >

By "nonsense", I assume you are disagreeing with my statement that white
wines are almost always moree acidic that reds? I don;t mean to sound
argumentative, but that is indeed true.
Acid in a wine is typically measured in two ways; titratable acidity, and
pH. The former is an analagous measure of total acidity (but is not, in
fact, true total acidity, although the two are so close as to be meaningless
to distinguish). The second, as you know, is a reverse function of hydrogen
proton concentration - the strength of the available acid. The higher the
"TA" (titratable acidity), the more acid. The lower the pH, the stronger the
acidity.

White wines are harvested and made to a typical range of .65 to .75 TA,
whereas red wines are harvested and made to a typical TA range of .6 to .7.
In other words, white wines generally contain more titratable acid. More
importantly, white wines are harvested and made such that the pH typically
falls in a range between 3.1 and 3.3; whereas reds fall in a ph range of 3.4
to 3.6. In other words, white wines are considerably more acidic (remember
that the pH scale, at the whole number, is logarithmic. The difference in
perceptible acidity of these ranges is significant.

Why is all this important? Well, white wines have considerbaly less 'other
stuff' to buffer them. If they are not acidic enough, they quickly taste
'flat' or 'flabby'. Whereas reds are somewhat mroe forgiving - with more
buffering avaialble from the time left on the skins.

Anyway, to the point of your original post - it isn;t accurate (relatively
speaking) to say that "most whites are not high in acidity". In fact,
realtively speaking, whites are more acidic than reds.


Cheers,

Ric; winemaker, wine guzzler, and closet geek



>> White wines are almost always more acidic than reds.
>
> Nonsense.
>
>>
>> > Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
>> > Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
>> > Soave.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> CPJ
>> >
>

Ric wrote:
> By "nonsense", I assume you are disagreeing with my statement that white
> wines are almost always moree acidic that reds? I don;t mean to sound
> argumentative, but that is indeed true.

Welcome to the world of Mr. Michael Scarpitti (aka Uranium Committee aka
UC), Ric, where everyone else on the planet is an idiot or a dupe, and
only he knows The Truth™:

....that no wine benefits exposure to air and should be drunk as soon as
opened

....that wine tasting is a waste of time and should be left to
professionals; wine should only be drunk with meals and not thought
about and furthermore that all winemakers agree with him about this.

....that Italy is the only souce for good wine and that all other sources
are a prior inferior, especially France and California.

Engage him in discussion at your own risk.

> Acid in a wine is typically measured in two ways; titratable acidity, and
> pH. The former is an analagous measure of total acidity (but is not, in
> fact, true total acidity, although the two are so close as to be meaningless
> to distinguish). The second, as you know, is a reverse function of hydrogen
> proton concentration - the strength of the available acid. The higher the
> "TA" (titratable acidity), the more acid. The lower the pH, the stronger the
> acidity.

The difference between TA and pH are that TA measures that total number
of acidic sites present in a unit volume of wine whereas pH measures the
equilibrium amount of free hydronium ion (H3O+), the common form of acid
in aqueous solution. These two different values diverge when
dicarboxylic acids such as malic and tartaric are involved.
>
> White wines are harvested and made to a typical range of .65 to .75 TA,
> whereas red wines are harvested and made to a typical TA range of .6 to .7.
> In other words, white wines generally contain more titratable acid. More
> importantly, white wines are harvested and made such that the pH typically
> falls in a range between 3.1 and 3.3; whereas reds fall in a ph range of 3.4
> to 3.6. In other words, white wines are considerably more acidic (remember
> that the pH scale, at the whole number, is logarithmic. The difference in
> perceptible acidity of these ranges is significant.

One essential difference is the prevalence of malolactic fermentation:
most whites undergo less than full ML (excepting as always the standard
New World Chardonnay) whereas all reds that I know of are put through
complete ML. Since malic is a dicarboxylic and lactic is a mono-, the
amount of TA decreases markedly (and the pH goes up) as a consequence of ML.

Nice discussion, BTW.

Cheers!
Mark Lipton

p.s. Do you make wine commercially? If so, is it an ultra-hush-hush
secret where you do?

Ric wrote:
> By "nonsense", I assume you are disagreeing with my statement that white
> wines are almost always moree acidic that reds? I don;t mean to sound
> argumentative, but that is indeed true.

They don't TASTE more acidic. I believe the poster was asking about
wine that does not taste bitter or astringent, but used the word
'acidic'.

> Acid in a wine is typically measured in two ways; titratable acidity, and
> pH. The former is an analagous measure of total acidity (but is not, in
> fact, true total acidity, although the two are so close as to be meaningless
> to distinguish). The second, as you know, is a reverse function of hydrogen
> proton concentration - the strength of the available acid. The higher the
> "TA" (titratable acidity), the more acid. The lower the pH, the stronger the
> acidity.
>
> White wines are harvested and made to a typical range of .65 to .75 TA,
> whereas red wines are harvested and made to a typical TA range of .6 to .7.
> In other words, white wines generally contain more titratable acid. More
> importantly, white wines are harvested and made such that the pH typically
> falls in a range between 3.1 and 3.3; whereas reds fall in a ph range of 3.4
> to 3.6. In other words, white wines are considerably more acidic (remember
> that the pH scale, at the whole number, is logarithmic. The difference in
> perceptible acidity of these ranges is significant.
>
> Why is all this important? Well, white wines have considerbaly less 'other
> stuff' to buffer them. If they are not acidic enough, they quickly taste
> 'flat' or 'flabby'. Whereas reds are somewhat mroe forgiving - with more
> buffering avaialble from the time left on the skins.
>
> Anyway, to the point of your original post - it isn;t accurate (relatively
> speaking) to say that "most whites are not high in acidity". In fact,
> realtively speaking, whites are more acidic than reds.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ric; winemaker, wine guzzler, and closet geek
>
>
>
> >> White wines are almost always more acidic than reds.
> >
> > Nonsense.
> >
> >>
> >> > Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity.
> >> > Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or
> >> > Soave.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> CPJ
> >> >
> >

Some German Rieslings are less than 10% alcohol content, and slightly sweet.
Dr. Loosen Erdener Treppchen comes to mind.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
> America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CPJ
>

"bijoudog" > skrev i melding
...
> Some German Rieslings are less than 10% alcohol content, and slightly
> sweet. Dr. Loosen Erdener Treppchen comes to mind.
>
Yes, look for a German from 2003 with 10% alc. or less. It will definitely
be low in acidity. (an extremely hot year)
Anders

Alianca Vinho Verde (from Portugal) is 9% alcohol, and not overly
acidic, if I recall correctly. wine-searcher.com shows many on-line
suppliers from $3.99 to $9.99, for what all seem to be the same wine.


wrote:
> Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
> America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CPJ

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Can anyone here recommend a white wine, easily available in North
> America, that is low in both alcohol and acid?
>
> Thanks.
>

My vote would be for a Portuguese Vinho Verde white. Usually less than $10,
alcohol around 9 or 9.5%, a little spritzy, and a generally pleasant
quaffer.