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Old 21-04-2006, 02:09 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the "white
zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend discussion
makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?

Remember, be kind, I'm a newbie.

Jeff



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Old 21-04-2006, 03:21 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

You bet it is. There are some fine ones from Spain and the Rhone just to
mention a few.



"JR" wrote in message
...
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the
"white zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend
discussion makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?

Remember, be kind, I'm a newbie.

Jeff



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Old 21-04-2006, 03:30 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

JR wrote:
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the "white
zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend discussion
makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Yes, it is (arguably) the principal red grape of the Southern Rhone
Valley in France, most notably in the wines of Chateauneuf-du-Pape. In
Spain, it's known as "Garnacha" and makes the readily available Sangre
de Toro marketed by Torres. It's also known as "Cannonau" on Sardinia.

Be aware, though, that in France there's also a white sport of Grenache
called Grenache blanc (white Grenache), but I doubt that that's what
you're talking about (and it's a lot less common).

HTH
Mark Lipton
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Old 21-04-2006, 04:16 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

JR wrote:
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the "white
zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend discussion
makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Yep, it is. I have also seen White Mouvedre, White Cab. etc. All are
low end wines.

When I go wine tasting around California very very few wineries have
White anything available. Seems these products are made mostly by the
big mass producers.
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Old 21-04-2006, 05:22 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

I do recall at the height of the white zin craze, a customer said he heard
about a white riesling---I showed him a nice kabinett with riesling in its
title but he said he only wanted a "white" riesling & didn't believe me when
I said all rieslings were white---I called the store owner over because the
man was in a tirade about my attempts to deceive him. The owner went to the
back & found a bottle of white riesling from Stags Leap which was a gift
from the Winiarki's. The customer glaring at me accepted it. About two
weeks later the customer was back and wanted to shake my hand---seems he
went to a class or tasting on German wine and the leader confirmed that
indeed I had showed him the real thing, he also was told some complimentary
things about me as one of the few people in MD who understood the German
nomenclature............
"miles" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
JR wrote:
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the

recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the

"white
zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend

discussion
makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Yep, it is. I have also seen White Mouvedre, White Cab. etc. All are
low end wines.

When I go wine tasting around California very very few wineries have
White anything available. Seems these products are made mostly by the
big mass producers.





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Old 21-04-2006, 05:24 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

"JR" wrote .......
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the
"white zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend
discussion makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Jeff, broadly speaking, white wine can me made from "most" red grapes - it
is the prolonged contact with the skin during the fermentation process which
extracts the pigments from the grape skins which impart the colour to red
wine.

Champagne is the opt quoted example - Pinot Noir (red) is one of the
approved varieties used in Champagne.

The grapes are harvested and pressed - with the skins immediately
separated - thus very little or no colour goes into the juice prior to
fermentation.

Thus, white merlot; white cabernet; white grenache etc are possible.

--

st.helier


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Old 21-04-2006, 09:49 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Riesling, was Grenache


"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i melding
...
I do recall at the height of the white zin craze, a customer said he heard
about a white riesling---I showed him a nice kabinett with riesling in its
title but he said he only wanted a "white" riesling & didn't believe me
when
I said all rieslings were white---I called the store owner over because
the
man was in a tirade about my attempts to deceive him. The owner went to
the
back & found a bottle of white riesling from Stags Leap which was a gift
from the Winiarki's. The customer glaring at me accepted it. About two
weeks later the customer was back and wanted to shake my hand---seems he
went to a class or tasting on German wine and the leader confirmed that
indeed I had showed him the real thing, he also was told some
complimentary
things about me as one of the few people in MD who understood the German
nomenclature............

Great! :-)

In fact, White Riesling is a name for the 'real' Riesling, like Weisser
Riesling in Austria, and Riesling Bianco in Italy (afaik).
On the other hand there is the 'Black Riesling' (Schwarzer Riesling) and
even 'Red Riesling' (Roter Riesling) - both are dark skinned mutations of
White Riesling (and give white wine).
Adding to the confusion, there is also a Schwarzriesling ('Blackriesling') a
local name (German, mainly in Wuertemberg) for the red Pinot Meunier grape!

:-) Anders



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Old 21-04-2006, 01:53 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

"JR" wrote in
:

OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the
recent "while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how
horrible the "white zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent
"shiraz-grenache" blend discussion makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?

Remember, be kind, I'm a newbie.

Jeff



Grenache is the mostly planted vine planted in Spain (in a close match with
a white grape called Airťn) and, if memory serves, also in the world (but I
am not sure, (bare with my ignorance). It is typical of different parts of
Spain, including Rioja Baja where it goes into the blend with Tempranillo,
Mazuelo (Carignan) and Graciano. It is the main grape of the great wines
of Calatayud, Campo de Borja and so important in CariŮena.

It goes into the great Priorats (usually mixed with cariŮena-carignan).

And there is a variety of Grenache which is white and not red. It is used
in Priorat, Montsant and other surroundings to make oaked white wines. I
think it goes into white rhones mixed with marsanne and roussane too, but I
am not sure about that.

Best,

S.

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Old 22-04-2006, 01:52 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache


"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"JR" wrote .......
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the
recent "while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible
the "white zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache"
blend discussion makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Jeff, broadly speaking, white wine can me made from "most" red grapes -
it is the prolonged contact with the skin during the fermentation process
which extracts the pigments from the grape skins which impart the colour
to red wine.


That I knew, but, given the taste of (at least in my opinion) White
Zinfandel, I figured that all of the "white" varieties were a) crappy and b)
created for people who just couldn't take the body and "heaviness" of a red
wine of the same grape.

Thus, white merlot; white cabernet; white grenache etc are possible.


Possible...OK...is there a "white cabernet" though?


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Old 22-04-2006, 01:56 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache


"Mark Lipton" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s72...
JR wrote:
OK...I recall, a few years ago, a "white grenache" in ads...So, the
recent
"while merlot" posts, along with my recollection of how horrible the
"white
zinfandel" tastes to me, and the recent "shiraz-grenache" blend
discussion
makes me wonder...

Is Grenache usually a grape used for red wine?


Yes, it is (arguably) the principal red grape of the Southern Rhone
Valley in France, most notably in the wines of Chateauneuf-du-Pape. In
Spain, it's known as "Garnacha" and makes the readily available Sangre
de Toro marketed by Torres. It's also known as "Cannonau" on Sardinia.

Be aware, though, that in France there's also a white sport of Grenache


OK, so, thanks to ALL of you for the great info...but, now I have to
comment...before this discussion, I had NEVER seen Grenache on a bottle of
wine before (but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough) and b) if the "white
grenache" I saw in the ads (had to be a California BIG wine producer, after
all, it was on a TV commercial, the red variety of grenache grapes, or the
white varitety.

My guess. The red one, without the skins.

jeff




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Old 22-04-2006, 09:22 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

"JR" wrote in
:

OK, so, thanks to ALL of you for the great info...but, now I have to
comment...before this discussion, I had NEVER seen Grenache on a
bottle of wine before (but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough)


Two red spanish wines from Grenache seem to be widely available in the
United States: Borsao (my favorite is Borsao Tres Picos Garnacha) from D.O.
Campo de Borja and Las Rocas de San Alejandro ViŮas Viejas from D.O.
Calatayud. And they are not expensive by today's standards.



and b)
if the "white grenache" I saw in the ads (had to be a California BIG
wine producer, after all, it was on a TV commercial, the red variety
of grenache grapes, or the white varitety.

My guess. The red one, without the skins.


To be precise, the red grapes vinified as white wine (not allowing contact
between the juice and the skins after pressing).

S.

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Old 22-04-2006, 10:58 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:26:56 GMT
"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" wrote:

"Mike Tommasi" skrev i meddelandet
...
Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
White grenache is used in the white wines from Southern RHone with other
varieties, though not marsanne, which is used in Northern RHone.


ahem. ahem....



... wrong? And grenache blanc is used in CdP right? Or ... wrong? Soooooooo


Just to clear this up. I know you guys know, but I found the exchange
confusing, so:

Chateauneuf du Pape:

encepagement: grenache, syrah, mourvèdre, picpoul, terret noir, counoise,
muscardin, vaccarèse, picardan, cinsault, clairette, roussane, bourboulenc.

This is the same for red and white. Note no marsanne or grenache blanc.

In the Cotes du Rhone white appellation:

Cépages principaux : grenache blanc, clairette blanche, marsanne blanche,
roussane blanche, bourboulenc blanc, viognier blanc.
Cépages secondaires : ugni blanc, picpoul blanc.

So, both grenache blanc and marsanne (blanche -- is there any other?)
are allowed as principal varietals (80% or more) in the southern rhone.

For the record and if anyone cares, for CdR red and rosé:

Cépages principaux : grenache noir, syrah noire, mourvèdre noir.

South of Montelimar grenache noir must be 40%.

Cépages secondaires : carignan noir, cinsaut noir, counoise noire, muscardin
noir, camarèse noir, vaccarèse noir, picpoul noir, terret noir, grenache gris,
clairette rose.

The secondary varietals combined cannot represent more than 30%.

Here's my question: why the heck is "grenache" masculin, anyway?
Is that so in spanish too?

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

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Old 22-04-2006, 11:12 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

Emery Davis wrote in
:
%.

Here's my question: why the heck is "grenache" masculin, anyway?
Is that so in spanish too?


Emery,

Garnacha is not masculin but feminin in spanish. La garnacha.

Best,

S.
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Old 22-04-2006, 01:38 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:06:11 +0200
Mike Tommasi wrote:

Santiago wrote:
Emery Davis wrote in
:
%.

Here's my question: why the heck is "grenache" masculin, anyway?
Is that so in spanish too?



Emery,

Garnacha is not masculin but feminin in spanish. La garnacha.


I always say "la Grenache", and I get remarks each time...

My kids like to read wine labels at table, so I've had it
drilled into me.

At least the Spaniards have some sense!

I asked my daughter the grammar whiz why it's not
feminine and got the expected: "Ben, c'est comme ca..."

BTW the inao site is very quick for finding appellation rules,
at www.inao.gouv.fr and search for the appellation in "textes."
(Not addressed to MT, naturally. Just meant to mention it
in the previous and forgot. Useful for the feeble of memory
like myself, anyway.)

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

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Old 22-04-2006, 02:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Grenache

Emery Davis wrote in
:



Here's my question: why the heck is "grenache" masculin, anyway?
Is that so in spanish too?

-E

Your daughter has hit it on the head

I asked my daughter the grammar whiz why it's not
feminine and got the expected: "Ben, c'est comme ca..."

There is just enough sense to grammatical gender to get us in trouble when
we strat guessing.
--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/



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