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Jose
 
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Default Cabernet franc

What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
hard to find, but I like it when I do.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
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Default Cabernet franc


Jose wrote:
> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
> hard to find, but I like it when I do.


I will never forget an early pure(or nearly pure) Cabernet Franc from
California. It was the Mount Veeder Winery Cabernet Franc 1977. Even at
10 years old it still was nearly of the color of india ink, and it was
one of the most tannic wines I have ever seen. It had some decent
fruit, but it was difficult to find it in the very heavy tannin. It
might have been good in a small amount in a Cabernet Sauvignon based
blend, but as a pure wine it was far too extreme for me.

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jcoulter
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:

> Jose wrote:
>> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
>> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
>> hard to find, but I like it when I do.

>
> You are most likely to find CF in its pure state in the Veneto region
> of Italy, where it may be just labelled Cabernet. Rarely hits high
> peaks, but this has nothing to do with the grape variety itself.
> Otherwise it would not be blended into some of the world's best wines
> ;-)
>
> You will find the highest % of CF in St Emilion.
>
>


Mike, What about the wines of the Touraine? Chinon, Bourgeuil etc? Most
or all Cab France and I find excellent with magret du canard.

--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

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gerald
 
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Default Cabernet franc

On 4 Nov 2005 01:05:17 -0800, "
> wrote:


>I will never forget an early pure(or nearly pure) Cabernet Franc from
>California. It was the Mount Veeder Winery Cabernet Franc 1977. Even at
>10 years old it still was nearly of the color of india ink, and it was
>one of the most tannic wines I have ever seen. It had some decent
>fruit, but it was difficult to find it in the very heavy tannin. It
>might have been good in a small amount in a Cabernet Sauvignon based
>blend, but as a pure wine it was far too extreme for me.


Do you judge all cab franc by a single 25 year old wine durnk over 15
years ago?

Took a long time for CA to get the grass out of the cab franc.

And I recall the Zins from the early 70's. very bitter. an attempt
to do zin in the bordeau style.

Grunlach Bunc(sp) has made some beautiful cab francs. fairly light by
cab standards

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bitbucket
 
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Default Cabernet franc

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:01:04 GMT, Jose > wrote:
| What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
| rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
| hard to find, but I like it when I do.

my palate isn't fine tuned when i comes to CF, but my fave is from Horton
Vineyard in Orange, VA. very tasty.


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Emery Davis
 
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Default Cabernet franc

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:09:07 -0600
jcoulter > wrote:

] Mike Tommasi > wrote in
] :
]
] > Jose wrote:
] >> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
] >> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
] >> hard to find, but I like it when I do.
] >
] > You are most likely to find CF in its pure state in the Veneto region
] > of Italy, where it may be just labelled Cabernet. Rarely hits high
] > peaks, but this has nothing to do with the grape variety itself.
] > Otherwise it would not be blended into some of the world's best wines
] > ;-)
] >
] > You will find the highest % of CF in St Emilion.
] >
] >
]
] Mike, What about the wines of the Touraine? Chinon, Bourgeuil etc? Most
] or all Cab France and I find excellent with magret du canard.
]

Joseph,

Was about to make that point. And also plenty from Anjou-Saumur.

Drank a Spelty Chinon (99 clos de Neuilly) last weekend that was a
real brooding monster, deep fruity back palate but still young and
tannic. It followed a Cotes de Blaye that to my palate also had
a very high percentage of CF.

As for what foods, wines from the Loire flatter a wide variety.
We find ourselves turning more and more to them.

Did you get my mail a few weeks ago, BTW?

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

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Santiago
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Mike Tommasi > wrote in news:3t0ic9Fp0iquU1
@individual.net:
>
> You will find the highest % of CF in St Emilion.
>

Oh, Mike, I did not expect that from you ;-)

While wandering along the Angevine area last week I was able to taste
several 100% CF wines. I specially enjoyed a Domaine Ogereau Anjou Rouge
2004 which had the sweetest tannins I have ever had in a wine (any
wine).What a silky sensation in the mouth. And that is so scarce with the
Loire Reds...

By the way, I managed to visit Mark Angeli at La Ferme de la Sansonniere
and he is making a rouge but not with Cabernet Franc, but with Cabernet
Sauvignon. In his opinion, Cabernet Franc is the right choice for the
Chinon and easter zones of the Loire, but not for the Anjou A.O.C. I tried
the 2004 Cabernet Sauvignon and... ummm, well, it was so tannic that my
teeth are still aching. His chenins, however, are beautiful as we could
discover (Les Fouchardes 2000 was more than great) while having a great
lunch at Les Tonnelles in Behouard.

Saumur, Saumur-Champigny, Chinon and Bourgueil are french AOCs that use
100% CF for the rouges (sometimes as the main part of a blend too).

Best,

S.

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Timothy Hartley
 
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Default Cabernet franc

In message >
Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> Jose wrote:
>> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
>> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
>> hard to find, but I like it when I do.

>
> You are most likely to find CF in its pure state in the Veneto region of
> Italy, where it may be just labelled Cabernet. Rarely hits high peaks,
> but this has nothing to do with the grape variety itself. Otherwise it
> would not be blended into some of the world's best wines ;-)
>
> You will find the highest % of CF in St Emilion.
>
>

Or perhaps more accurately, in my view,the best use of it, but never
as a single varietal without blending, which was what Jose was asking
about. Did Homer nod?? Bouchet is, again in my opinion, best used
when blended in Saint-Emilion with Merlot and a little Cabernet
Sauvignon and/or perhaps Côt. Fortunately we all like differnt things
and thr earethos who tell me the CF when use don its own on the Loire
is wonderful. the fact that I have yet to be persuaded is neither here
nor there - and it halp[s to keep the price of the things I like less
unreasonable if there are fewer people clamouring for them and
preferring others - vive la difference et le choix!


Timothy Hartley
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Dan The Man
 
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Default Cabernet franc


Jose wrote:
> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
> hard to find, but I like it when I do.
>
> Jose
> --
> Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.


I have tried a few, Jose. I had one from Calif which resembled Cab
Sauvignon (Daniel Gehrs, IIRC). I also had a few local makes (Penna.)
which I really liked - they were more subtle. Cab Franc as a varietal
is fine with me (never had a bad one) but it might not be everyone's
cup of tea.

Dan-O

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Default Cabernet franc


gerald wrote:

> Do you judge all cab franc by a single 25 year old wine durnk over 15
> years ago?


Where did you get this idea. I wrote nothing of the sort. Of course
much of the best Cabernet Franc (and plenty of very common stuff) has
long come from the Loire in France, but it usually is named for a
subregion and often an individual vineyard for the best examples. Tons
of poor Cabernet Franc under various names, often nearly a rose,
imported into the US in the early days gave this grape a bad name. More
recently a few really outstanding Loire examples can be found here. For
example Clos de la Dioterie (from Chinon in the Loire) SCEA Charles
Joynet 1990 was an outstanding example and has aged very well. There
are several other top producers.

>
> Took a long time for CA to get the grass out of the cab franc.
>
> And I recall the Zins from the early 70's. very bitter. an attempt
> to do zin in the bordeau style.
>
> Grunlach Bunc(sp) has made some beautiful cab francs. fairly light by
> cab standards


Yes there were vegetable tastes in many white and red wines in the 70s.
Because of urban sprawl and the need to expand vineyards, many planted
vineyards in new regions. Some regions were not suited for some grapes,
and the way the vines were pruned and trained often had to be changed.
Excessive leaves sometimes had to be removed. I can recall many reviews
of wines from new regions in that era that mentioned asparagus, weeds,
etc in describing the taste and smell of the wines. Of course the best
growers in the 70s already had a long track record of making
outstanding wine. For example, Ridge usually made a top Monte Bello CS,
and they made many top Zinfandels from various regions. Many of these
wines still are drinking well. BV has had ups and downs, but they made
many top Private Reserve CSs in the 50s and 60s, and some of these
still are drinking well.



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Jose
 
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Default Cabernet franc

> Tons
> of poor Cabernet Franc under various names, often nearly a rose,
> imported into the US in the early days gave this grape a bad name.


What does "often nearly a rose" mean in this context?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
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jcoulter
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Jose > wrote in news:lmOaf.9528$Lv.2211
@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net:

>> Tons
>> of poor Cabernet Franc under various names, often nearly a rose,
>> imported into the US in the early days gave this grape a bad name.

>
> What does "often nearly a rose" mean in this context?
>
> Jose


He probably meant most often or nearly always

--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

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Mark Lipton
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Jose wrote:
>> Tons
>> of poor Cabernet Franc under various names, often nearly a rose,
>> imported into the US in the early days gave this grape a bad name.

>
>
> What does "often nearly a rose" mean in this context?
>
> Jose


It means a red wine so dilute and light in color as almost to appear as
a rosé, José. ;-)

Mark Lipton
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Jose
 
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Default Cabernet franc

> It means a red wine so dilute and light in color as almost to appear as a rosé, José. ;-)

Touché

José
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
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greybeard
 
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Default Cabernet franc

A number of CF dominant wines have been appearing down under
recently. Two that I am familiar with a

Redgate (Western Australia). I have a memory of been told this vinery
specialise in this variety. At a recent WA wines tasting the 1999 redgate
was
the popular choice as best wine.

Clearview estate (Hawke Bay NZ) produce a CF in some vintages (usually
the warmer years). The 1998 is very memorable. (I must drag one out of
the cellar and revisit it soon)
Sorry no TN on these wines at hand.

As to a generalisation, I find CF wines to be soft (ie not esp. tannic),
warming,
and very black/red fruity. IMHO they require a few years in bottle so show
their best. (But, I'd say that about most red wine) That allows the
excessive fruit
to calm somewhat.

cheers


> Jose wrote:
>> What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
>> rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
>> hard to find, but I like it when I do.





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Santiago
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:
>
> Look, when it comes to France most of AFW seems hung up on Bordeaux...
> and of course, nobody I know in France drinks that any more, not when
> they are paying at least... ;-) Most of us are selling off our
> Bordeaux stocks to buy... Loire?


Come on, do not underestimate our friends in alt.food.wine. I love the good wines from
Bordeaux and they are not as expensive as it could seem. We have plenty of wannabe wines
in Spain that retail at comparable prices to any vintage of Leoville Barton and suffer so
much in the comparison.

Besides, and even if I have started laying down quite an amount of oaked wines, I find
myself wanting to drink pure wines where oak is not the principal component. And wines
from good vintages in the Loire (and Beaujolais, and many others) seem to fit perfectly.
>
> Fantastic Ogereau. Sweet tannins in the whites too ;-)


So true. I found a wholesaler in the outside of Angers (Wallop in St. Sylvain d'Anjou)
where I purchased a case of the Anjou Blanc Cuvee Prestige 2001 (which I am distributing
amongst my Spanish friends) and a couple of bottles of the Anjou Villages Rouge 2001.
They are still recovering from the trip.
>
> Lucky guy, do you know that I have never visited a vineyard in the
> Loire yet? I know more vignerons there than in Bandol, but never been
> there!


I am not the mediterranean wine kind of guy, and I tend to prefer atlantic (climate)
wines but I do not discard a visit to Provence in the future.

>
> When I finally do decide to go, I'll ask you first!
>

Wow, I have found so much passion in the Loire vignerons that I am amazed. I toured
Bordeaux in 2004 and loved the Premiere Crus but I felt it was more like an industry.
However, talking to Mark Angeli was great. He is really a man committed to his land and
the best produce. Not to mention that I have visited La Ferme de la Sansonniere twice and
he has been SO KIND. I think that he detected how much I was enjoying his wines in 2004
and he accepted to receive us on a friday afternoon instead even if he only accepts
visits on saturday mornings. Moreover, he toured the vineyards with us and showed us all
the range of his wines. What a passion in his work.

However, we also enjoyed touring Domaine Huet where we got a great reception, even if
Noel Pinguet was busy working with the vendange.

However, I think you have the right connection when trying to get the best from the Loire
Valley ;-))))

Just do not forget to eat at Les Tonnelles and, if you stay in Angers, try Le Petit
Comptoir in Rue David d'Angers where Stephane Cosnier (formerly Second Chef at
Taillevent) is doing a great cooking. The Velouté de Poutirón aux Praliné et Pain Brulée
is one of the best dishes I have had this year (and, yes, I am including El Bulli in
"this year").

Best,

S.
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st.helier
 
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Default Cabernet franc

"greybeard" wrote

> Clearview estate (Hawke Bay NZ) produce a CF in some vintages (usually the
> warmer years). The 1998 is very memorable.



However, the chance of finding this wine outside of NZ is zero!

Made in '94, '98, '00 and '02 in miniscule amounts - like 1,200 bottles only
in '02 - available only from the winery.

The sandy soils at Clearview (only a 100 metres or so from the Pacific
Ocean) really suit this variety.

--

st.helier


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Seaberdeaber
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Lang & Reed in California makes a great cabernet franc, pairs well with
grilled/roasted chicken, burgers, pizza, but I've never had it with
fish/salmon/seafood.

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Timothy Hartley
 
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Default Cabernet franc

In message >
Mike Tommasi > wrote:


> Look, when it comes to France most of AFW seems hung up on Bordeaux...
> and of course, nobody I know in France drinks that any more, not when
> they are paying at least... ;-) Most of us are selling off our Bordeaux
> stocks to buy... Loire?


Not my experience of France - certainly not true of my father in law
just down the road from Mike Tommasi at Six-Fours (and needless to say
certainly not true of the Bordelais!)

In my experience France remains very regional in its wine drinking
habits with local wines, if they exist, being heavily favoured over
other French wines and nobody else really getting look in at all -
which I personally can understand: when there is so much available
from your own country and when its quality is rising all the time why
go for the unknown? Especially as, judging by what little of other
country's wines you see on French supermarket shelves, the foreign
wine which is available in France is almost invariably limited and
inferior to the native product?

The UK is fortunate in having a wide range of choice and a lot of good
specialised merchants. I just hope the incresing dominance of
supermarkets at one end and the not altogether benign influence of
some (foreign) gurus will not change that.

Timothy Hartley
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Timothy Hartley
 
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Default Cabernet franc

In message >
Santiago > wrote:


> I toured Bordeaux in 2004 and loved the Premiere Crus but I felt it
> was more like an industry.


Much less true of the Right Bank where the vineyards are so much
smaller and still mostly family owned - and, more importantly, run.

The industrial approach is still a relative rarity there and I woudl
suggest that anybody visiting Bordeaux should go to vineyards
throughout the range - not just Premiers Crus - or Premiers Grand Crus
Classés or even Grand Crus Classés. If anybody is visiting the
Jurisdiction I shall be more than happy to offer help — e-mail me at
.


Tim Hartley


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Santiago
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Timothy Hartley > wrote in
:
>
> Much less true of the Right Bank where the vineyards are so much
> smaller and still mostly family owned - and, more importantly, run.


Well, surely true.
>
> The industrial approach is still a relative rarity there and I woudl
> suggest that anybody visiting Bordeaux should go to vineyards
> throughout the range - not just Premiers Crus - or Premiers Grand Crus
> Classés or even Grand Crus Classés. If anybody is visiting the
> Jurisdiction I shall be more than happy to offer help — e-mail me at
> .


Thank you very much for your offering, which I would accept for my next
visit to the area. On our 2004 trip we visited Cos d'Estournel, Lafite,
Mouton, Latour, Margaux, Leoville Barton in the left bank, Haut-Brion and
La Mission in Graves, and Cheval Blanc, La Conseillante and Angelus in the
Right Bank. d'Yquem was the obvious end of the tour. I enjoyed the trip
(and the wines) so much, and I discovered that I am a left bank kind of guy
when it comes to Bordeaux, though I really liked the wines of La
Conseillante.

BTW, even the smallest of the producers in our trip (which I think was La
Conseillante) was several times bigger than 90% of Bourgogne great domaines
(or the Loire for the matter).

S.
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gerald
 
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On 4 Nov 2005 13:30:11 GMT, bitbucket > wrote:

>
>my palate isn't fine tuned when i comes to CF, but my fave is from Horton
>Vineyard in Orange, VA. very tasty.



There is a significient amount of Tannet added to Horton CF,
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Michael Pronay
 
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Default Cabernet franc

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> You are most likely to find CF in its pure state in the Veneto
> region of Italy, where it may be just labelled Cabernet.


I'm not sure whether the major part of this CF plantings aren't,
in fact, Carmenère.

M.
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greybeard
 
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Default Cabernet franc

{contrite & humbled mode = ON}
Opps... Beg pardon & forgiveness your Lordship.
(Scrape of knees........tug of forelock)

I dont have any knowledge of production quantities.
I'd have thought no smaller production however, than the Central Otago PN's
that
rate a mention in this ng. Or The Terraces, which was mentioned in
connection
with a recent OE.

{mode=toggle}
ClearV do have a web presence, so some may have escaped.
Not on the cult lists however, so probably not going to be lugged out of NZ.
Could be the 2-3 bottles I have are some of the last in captivity.

cheers greybeard





"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> However, the chance of finding this wine outside of NZ is zero!
>
> Made in '94, '98, '00 and '02 in miniscule amounts - like 1,200 bottles
> only in '02 - available only from the winery.
>
> The sandy soils at Clearview (only a 100 metres or so from the Pacific
> Ocean) really suit this variety.
>
> --
>
> st.helier
>



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AyTee
 
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Default Cabernet franc

As I type I am drinking 2003 Chateau de Fesles Anjou, which I was told
was cabernet franc. It has a vanilla and raspberry nose with a pleasant
trace of earthiness. Tannins substantial but not over the top, nicely
balanced acidity. On the palate, the fruit is more cassis or cranberry
than raspberry. US$12, good QPR IMO. My only other experience with CF
varietals is with Washington wines, which are also good, but richer --
more fruity-spicy style.

Andy



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st.helier
 
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Default Cabernet franc

"greybeard" wrote in message ................

> Opps... Beg pardon & forgiveness your Lordship.


????? My comment was not supposed to be, in any way, disparaging - merely
informative.

> I don't have any knowledge of production quantities.


I am just an occasional visitor to Clearview - actually, their vineyard
restaurant is one of the better ones in NZ. I have spent a few afternoons
sampling their hospitality and wines - usually in the company of an overseas
guest or two.

I know, first hand, that they have bottled just 4 barriques (i.e. 1,100 or
so bottles) of their 2004 Reserve Cabernet Franc.


> I'd have thought no smaller production however, than the Central Otago
> PN's that rate a mention in this ng.
> Or The Terraces, which was mentioned in connection
> with a recent OE.


Again, I did not insinuate that the Clearview CS did not rate a mention
based on its tiny production; in fact, the reverse is true - it rates much
more than a mention.

However, considering that one can count the number of NZ correspondents on
this ng on one hand, my post was informing any interested parties, if they
wanted to try wines such as the Clearview Reserve CS (or indeed the Esk
Valley Terraces or other wines made in very small quantities) then one would
indeed have to travel to these fair shores, and not count on finding them at
their local market - wherever it may be.


> Could be the 2-3 bottles I have are some of the last in captivity.


May well be - although Clearview say that this wine *may* be cellared for up
to ten years, imnsho, I would be looking at drinking my (low acid, low
tannin) '98 sooner rather than later.

--
st.helier


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Emery Davis
 
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Default Cabernet franc

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:01:04 GMT
Jose > wrote:

] What do you folks think of Cabernet Franc, as a varietal for drinking
] rather than blending? What do you like to eat with it? It's kind of
] hard to find, but I like it when I do.
]

Jose,

We're rolling in cepes right now, and even with filling the freezer
they appear in virtually every meal.

Had a Ch. La Perruche 'Le Chaumont' '03 Saumur-Champigny
with chicken livers and cepes in port sauce, the match was
truly excellent. And not an easy plate to match with red,
either. Both wine and dish were really flattered.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies

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