Being fairly new to the wonders of wine, I would like to buy a small wine
cooler; somewhere from 24 to 35 bottles. Right now I'm on a tight budget so
I'm looking for value, without too much of a sacrafice in quality. I drink
mostly reds, but I'd like to have a few whites on hand for my lady friends.
Would someone be so kind as to make some recommendations. Thank you.

Welcome, Steve.

"Steve Dannenbaum" in newsj%Re.73757$DW1.27686@fed1read06:
>
> Being fairly new to the wonders of wine, I would like to buy a small wine
> cooler; somewhere from 24 to 35 bottles. ... Would someone be so kind as
> to make some recommendations. Thank you.
>


Done. Vast info on this subject in newsgroup archives from the past 23.5
years. For example, at groups.google.com .

(Example of a classic "Frequently Asked Question.")

-- max

"Steve Dannenbaum" > skrev i melding
newsj%Re.73757$DW1.27686@fed1read06...
> Being fairly new to the wonders of wine, I would like to buy a small wine
> cooler; somewhere from 24 to 35 bottles. Right now I'm on a tight budget
> so
> I'm looking for value, without too much of a sacrafice in quality. I drink
> mostly reds, but I'd like to have a few whites on hand for my lady
> friends.
> Would someone be so kind as to make some recommendations. Thank you.
>
There's indeed much to glean from older threads, but my direct advice is:
don't buy.
Unless, of course, you live in a very hot area and need to have a 50-55F
storage for short term use (4-5 months)..
If you are that new to wine your best bet is to buy as needed from a
reputable dealer (with good, cool warehouses).
Browse around the world of wine, note what you like and find that your taste
will change. Why then fill your cooler with something you will not want in
5 years time?
Storing wine till maturity is an expensive and tricky business but some
rules of thumb apply: If you plan for an average 7 years storage and want
to drink 2 bottles a month, you will need space for 7*2*12=168 bottles...
Now, if the idea is to have a bottle or two ready for the ladies the fridge
will do. A lady a week will probably mean a bottle a week :-) and it will
surely keep in good shape in the refrigerator for double that time. Reds
may need a little chill from an hour or a half in the fridge, btw (best
served at 60-65F). Whites may need to be taken out half an hour early to
warm to 45-50F is your fridge is cold.
hth
Anders

"Steve Dannenbaum" > wrote in
newsj%Re.73757$DW1.27686@fed1read06:

> Being fairly new to the wonders of wine, I would like to buy a small
> wine cooler; somewhere from 24 to 35 bottles. Right now I'm on a
> tight budget so I'm looking for value, without too much of a sacrafice
> in quality. I drink mostly reds, but I'd like to have a few whites on
> hand for my lady friends. Would someone be so kind as to make some
> recommendations. Thank you.
>
>
Anders gives good advice. As one who lives in a hot zone (even with the
AC temps are in mid 70's much of the year) I drink most of my wines
young becasue "proper" storage would require, as some friends do to have
closet and bigger sized units. I have a small refrigerator that I keep
at 55 thanks to a separate control unit and thermostat this works well
for the few "keeper" wines that I accumulate, though I wish I had the
nice cool under the steps storage that I had in Minnesota. If only I
could accomplish this without Minnesota winters!


--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

Wine keeps well in a regular fridge-- I've read all this stuff about
corks drying out, etc. but I've probably had a couple of dozen bottles
sitting for a year before I opened them, with no problems at all. But
if you want inexpensive storage for a couple of dozen bottles, Home
Depot has some small wine fridges, or you could buy one of the
waist-high ones they make for dorms and turn the thermostat to as warm
a setting as it has. And if that's not warm enough, at least one wine
accessary store sells a thermostat with a probe that you put in the
fridge-- the fridge plugs into the thermostat, and it cuts off the
power when the fridge gets too cold. Not the most efficient way to do
things, but a little fridge averaging 57 degrees doesn't use too much
electricity anyway.


Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smart Mind (sm)

in article , Anders Tørneskog at
wrote on 9/2/05 2:16 PM:

>
> "Steve Dannenbaum" > skrev i melding
> newsj%Re.73757$DW1.27686@fed1read06...
>> Being fairly new to the wonders of wine, I would like to buy a small wine
>> cooler; somewhere from 24 to 35 bottles. Right now I'm on a tight budget
>> so
>> I'm looking for value, without too much of a sacrafice in quality. I drink
>> mostly reds, but I'd like to have a few whites on hand for my lady
>> friends.
>> Would someone be so kind as to make some recommendations. Thank you.
>>
> There's indeed much to glean from older threads, but my direct advice is:
> don't buy.
> Unless, of course, you live in a very hot area and need to have a 50-55F
> storage for short term use (4-5 months)..
> If you are that new to wine your best bet is to buy as needed from a
> reputable dealer (with good, cool warehouses).
> Browse around the world of wine, note what you like and find that your taste
> will change. Why then fill your cooler with something you will not want in
> 5 years time?
> Storing wine till maturity is an expensive and tricky business but some
> rules of thumb apply: If you plan for an average 7 years storage and want
> to drink 2 bottles a month, you will need space for 7*2*12=168 bottles...
> Now, if the idea is to have a bottle or two ready for the ladies the fridge
> will do. A lady a week will probably mean a bottle a week :-) and it will
> surely keep in good shape in the refrigerator for double that time. Reds
> may need a little chill from an hour or a half in the fridge, btw (best
> served at 60-65F). Whites may need to be taken out half an hour early to
> warm to 45-50F is your fridge is cold.
> hth
> Anders

I'm reading this thread with interest. After losing a significant number of
bottles on and off over the years, I invested in a 200 bottle
furniture-style unit inside the house. We are in a temperate coastal
section of Southern California, but the temp can reach the high 90'sF on a
number of summer days. Keeping the entire house in the low 70's, on a
consistent basis, can be quite costly (And unnecessary for residents).

I've always been told that it's the changes in temp that affect wine; ie- a
few days at 98F, then back to the low 70'sF (at night); then up again.
California wineries will often not ship wine during hot spells, though a UPS
truck could climb well over 100F parked at McDonald's. All but one of our
local quality wine merchants use only the standard A/C to keep their spaces
around 70F consistently. The one exception is huge, and has a wine
'warehouse' area that feels like <60F all the time.

So...... just what are the specific temperature maximums/fluctuations/time
factors that put wine in danger? Don't we need to know more specifics to
soundly advice someone?

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:06:54 -0700, Midlife > wrote:

>So...... just what are the specific temperature maximums/fluctuations/time
>factors that put wine in danger? Don't we need to know more specifics to
>soundly advice someone?

We do, and I don'r believe ANYONE knows the answers. There are so
many variables involved.

I would also want to know from the OP (if he is still with us) what
his requirements are for long term storage. Why does he think he
wants a Wine Cooler/Cellar?

From the rest of his post, it seem like he should simply put a bottle
in the fridge when he thinks he will get lucky. And maybe buy a wiine
chiller sleeve for those unexpected visits..
--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

True-- nobody that I know of has done any scientific testing of storing
wine at various temperatures for years. The wine industry says 57
degrees is optimum storage, but that number was chosen pretty much
because that's the average underground temperature in much of France,
where wineries store their wine before release.

Over 70 or 75 for long enough, and wine goes bad faster.

In general chemical reactions go faster at higher temperatures. But
some reactions may speed up more than others, so unfortunately you
can't take a bottle of young Bordeaux, stick it in 130 degree water for
an hour and call it twenty years of aging. On the other hand I once
left an inexpensive Bordeaux in a car for a few hours in the summer,
put it in the fridge to cool it back down, and it was much better than
any of the other 11 bottles of the same wine I had. So you never
know...

I just don't think it makes a lot of sense to spend $2000 to cellar 400
bottles of wine you're going to drink within a couple of years, if you
have a basement that stays below 70 degrees all year. But if it gets
hot where you live, or you want to store some wine for 20 years, you
may not have any other choice.

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smarter Audience (sm)

I'm the OP and the reason I think I need a cooler is that I live in Arizona
which is about 3 miles from the sun!

It gets really hot here and I entertain a couple-three times a week.




"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:06:54 -0700, Midlife > wrote:
>
>>So...... just what are the specific temperature maximums/fluctuations/time
>>factors that put wine in danger? Don't we need to know more specifics to
>>soundly advice someone?
>
> We do, and I don'r believe ANYONE knows the answers. There are so
> many variables involved.
>
> I would also want to know from the OP (if he is still with us) what
> his requirements are for long term storage. Why does he think he
> wants a Wine Cooler/Cellar?
>
> From the rest of his post, it seem like he should simply put a bottle
> in the fridge when he thinks he will get lucky. And maybe buy a wiine
> chiller sleeve for those unexpected visits..
> --
> Steve Slatcher
> http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Hi Steve

But how long do you keep your wines before drinking?

Does your place have air-conditioning? Or can you find a cooler dark
place somewhere? If so, wine should be fine for a few months at least.
Only if you are thinking in terms of years do you you need to worry.

You also kind of imply that you can deal with red wines, which implies
to me you don't need a cellar. White wines do not tend to go bad any
faster than reds, and do not need to be stored at a different
temperature. You just need to cool them for serving.

Best wishes

Steve

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:09:08 -0700, "Steve Dannenbaum"
> wrote:

>I'm the OP and the reason I think I need a cooler is that I live in Arizona
>which is about 3 miles from the sun!
>
>It gets really hot here and I entertain a couple-three times a week.
>
>
>
>
>"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:06:54 -0700, Midlife > wrote:
>>
>>>So...... just what are the specific temperature maximums/fluctuations/time
>>>factors that put wine in danger? Don't we need to know more specifics to
>>>soundly advice someone?
>>
>> We do, and I don'r believe ANYONE knows the answers. There are so
>> many variables involved.
>>
>> I would also want to know from the OP (if he is still with us) what
>> his requirements are for long term storage. Why does he think he
>> wants a Wine Cooler/Cellar?
>>
>> From the rest of his post, it seem like he should simply put a bottle
>> in the fridge when he thinks he will get lucky. And maybe buy a wiine
>> chiller sleeve for those unexpected visits..
>> --
>> Steve Slatcher
>> http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
>
--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Returning to the point of the original posting, which was recommendations:

A very quick check on groups.google.com disclosed several hundred _threads_
on such keywords as refrigerator, cooler, vinotemp, or vinotheque (the
latter being brand names) on alt.food.wine, rec.food.drink (pre-1995 when it
carried mostly wine info), and net.wines. (Beginning approximately with one
on "refrigerators" from Bob Niland, a prolific and venerable poster, in
1986.) Specifically, one search gave 658 threads within AFW alone,
increasing (interestingly) only slightly to 660 with addition of the further
trade name subzero.

Some of these threads are irrelevant, but since relatively little product
advice and experience has _not_ already been posted on these newsgroups, the
existing postings are rich ground for the searcher willing to lift a finger.
That's a practical first step anyway, and any residual questions may
possibly fall into the particular experience of the current crop of
experienced readers -- which changes constantly.

Steve,
Thanks for the reply. I have A/C and keep it around 78F. I think that might
be too warm for wines. I think that I might want to keep some wines for
several months; perhaps for special occassions. I'd prefer not to keep them
in my fridge. Do you think that I should just store them at room temp?

Steve


"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Steve
>
> But how long do you keep your wines before drinking?
>
> Does your place have air-conditioning? Or can you find a cooler dark
> place somewhere? If so, wine should be fine for a few months at least.
> Only if you are thinking in terms of years do you you need to worry.
>
> You also kind of imply that you can deal with red wines, which implies
> to me you don't need a cellar. White wines do not tend to go bad any
> faster than reds, and do not need to be stored at a different
> temperature. You just need to cool them for serving.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Steve
>
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:09:08 -0700, "Steve Dannenbaum"
> > wrote:
>
>>I'm the OP and the reason I think I need a cooler is that I live in
>>Arizona
>>which is about 3 miles from the sun!
>>
>>It gets really hot here and I entertain a couple-three times a week.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Steve Slatcher" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:06:54 -0700, Midlife > wrote:
>>>
>>>>So...... just what are the specific temperature
>>>>maximums/fluctuations/time
>>>>factors that put wine in danger? Don't we need to know more specifics
>>>>to
>>>>soundly advice someone?
>>>
>>> We do, and I don'r believe ANYONE knows the answers. There are so
>>> many variables involved.
>>>
>>> I would also want to know from the OP (if he is still with us) what
>>> his requirements are for long term storage. Why does he think he
>>> wants a Wine Cooler/Cellar?
>>>
>>> From the rest of his post, it seem like he should simply put a bottle
>>> in the fridge when he thinks he will get lucky. And maybe buy a wiine
>>> chiller sleeve for those unexpected visits..
>>> --
>>> Steve Slatcher
>>> http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
>>
> --
> Steve Slatcher
> http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

"Steve Dannenbaum" > wrote in
news:KPMSe.69361$Ji4.22706@fed1read03:

> Steve,
> Thanks for the reply. I have A/C and keep it around 78F. I think that
> might be too warm for wines. I think that I might want to keep some
> wines for several months; perhaps for special occassions. I'd prefer
> not to keep them in my fridge. Do you think that I should just store
> them at room temp?
>
> Steve
>
>

I used to have a larger unit in my garage, but it failed and my wine was
cooked (90+ when I found it) since then I have a small fridge that is
capable of holding up to 40 bottles. In here I keep the few long term
holdings that I pick up from time to time. mosty I drink currently
avbailable vintages. though to be honest I tend to likethe wines that I
buy such as Loire Valley reds that go really well with a ide range of
foods.

>
>



--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:03:41 -0700, "Steve Dannenbaum"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the reply. I have A/C and keep it around 78F. I think that might
>be too warm for wines. I think that I might want to keep some wines for
>several months; perhaps for special occassions. I'd prefer not to keep them
>in my fridge. Do you think that I should just store them at room temp?

For several months? Yes, personally I would just store at room
temperature.

Keep the bottles in a dark place. And cooler if possible, but I would
not worry too much about that. You implied that you have not had
problems with reds, so your white wines should be OK too.

Just one proviso. As you mentiioed a tight budget, I presume you are
not talking about wines that typically cost 100s of dollars per bottle
here. If you have a high value cellar it might be reasonable to spend
a few more hundreds of dollars on a wine-fridge as an insurance
against A/C failure.

Let's see what others think. At least we have more facts to work with
now.

Best wishes
--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 5-Sep-2005, Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> >Thanks for the reply. I have A/C and keep it around 78F. I think that
> >might
> >be too warm for wines. I think that I might want to keep some wines for
> >several months; perhaps for special occassions. I'd prefer not to keep
> >them
> >in my fridge. Do you think that I should just store them at room temp?
>
> For several months? Yes, personally I would just store at room
> temperature.
>
> Keep the bottles in a dark place. And cooler if possible, but I would
> not worry too much about that. You implied that you have not had
> problems with reds, so your white wines should be OK too.
>
> Just one proviso. As you mentiioed a tight budget, I presume you are
> not talking about wines that typically cost 100s of dollars per bottle
> here. If you have a high value cellar it might be reasonable to spend
> a few more hundreds of dollars on a wine-fridge as an insurance
> against A/C failure.
>
> Let's see what others think. At least we have more facts to work with
> now.

For less than six months, storing wine in the back of a closet should be
fine. You want to have a dark space, and as cool as possible while fairly
regular in temperature (you don't want it to be 65 one day and 80 the next).
I'd go to Radio Shack and buy a digital thermometer with memory (should be
less than $15) and check out a seldom used closet to make sure it stays
consistent.

You do not want to store wine (red or white) in the refrigerator for any
length of time.... white wines maybe a couple of days and reds less than an
hour. If storing wine in an un-regulated space (i.e. closet), I'd put the
reds in the fridge to get them down to cellar temperature before drinking
(about 10-15 minutes).

I managed to keep several good bottles this way for more than a year without
any problems.

Good luck,
Gary