Mike's other post gave me ideas...

Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
as MT )

I'm too out of the CA scene, even to know what the good current
vintages are. So, help please!

Here are the criteria: should be available from K&L or another
downtown store. Price is not really an object other than if it's
too unreasonable she won't get it, and I'll be disappointed.
Please specify all info necessary to find the wine you're talking
about (i.e. year, vinyard, etc.)

With your help we will wow the French population to such an
extent that zinfandel imports will increase 100-fold!

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Emery Davis wrote:
> Mike's other post gave me ideas...
>
> Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
> back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
> as MT )
>
> I'm too out of the CA scene, even to know what the good current
> vintages are. So, help please!

Emery,
You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002
were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s,
it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual
suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline,
Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the
more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to
pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso
Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she
might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some
older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys.

HTH
Mark Lipton

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:29:58 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:27:45 -0500, Mark Lipton >
>wrote:
>
>>Emery Davis wrote:
>>> Mike's other post gave me ideas...
>>>
>>> Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
>>> back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
>>> as MT )
>>>
>>> I'm too out of the CA scene, even to know what the good current
>>> vintages are. So, help please!
>>
>>Emery,
>> You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002
>>were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s,
>>it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual
>>suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline,
>>Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the
>>more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to
>>pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso
>>Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she
>>might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some
>>older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys.
>
>Mark,

You've got a menu of great and representative Zins for sure. I'd
definitely pick up a Ridge--the Geyserville never seem to fail and
recently the Paso Robles bottlings have been outstanding as well.

I've not had particularly good experiences with Ravenswood, although
some of the small vineyard bottlings are pretty good. It seems that
lately they've been doing (or at least I've been encountering) a lot
of high volume blended "regional" zins which aren't particularly
noteworthy.

Amador county is a very "hot" region--in the sense of producing some
exceptional examples, not particularly in reference to the climate. I
really like Renwood and both the Grandmere and Grandpere offerings are
exceptional.

Can't go wrong with Fife either--the Mendocino or Whaler.

If you find a Turley and can stand the tariff, you might buy it, if
only to say you'd done it once!


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Mike Tommasi wrote:


> Mark,
>
> what makes those named "controversial"... ?
>

Those wineries make Zin in a very highly extracted, over-the-top, highly
alcoholic style that has found great appeal with Parker and hence have
become highly sought-after items. For those of us who like to drink our
Zins with food, these wines are anathema (although, in truth, Turley's
style has become more food-friendly in the current millenium). They
also tend to fetch very high prices, making them easy wines to pass up.
The controversy arises because they are tasty beverages, albeit
perhaps closer to fortified than to table wine.

Mark Lipton

In article >, says
....
>
>Emery Davis wrote:
>> Mike's other post gave me ideas...
>>
>> Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
>> back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
>> as MT )
>>
>> I'm too out of the CA scene, even to know what the good current
>> vintages are. So, help please!
>
>Emery,
> You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002
>were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s,
>it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual
>suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline,
>Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the
>more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to
>pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso
>Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she
>might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some
>older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys.
>
>HTH
>Mark Lipton

I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my
allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently tasted
the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent.

The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a tasting
some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me, at
least.

I also agree with your later post in this thread recent Turleys. I happen
to be a big fan of heavily extracted Zins, but appreciate their more recent
offerings, especially the '01 & '02 Duarte. That said, there are very few Zins
that I cannot find something to love in. Out of a half-dozen ZAP events, I
have only encountered 1, that I did not enjoy, and I tasted as many as the
event's time permitted.

I also agree with Ed's recent accessment of Ravenswood. We just did a dinner
with Ravenswood, and there was less to really get into, than in years past.
Maybe the corporate thing has not been as kind to them, as some would have
hoped. The sv offerings were still good, but too much of what was served was
just average Zin.

Almost all of the sv Rosenblums are very good, and worth sorting through a
dozen, or so Rosenblum labels.

Thanks for the tip on K&L. I'll call "uncle" Ralph tomorrow and see what he's
got around. Can't ship it until it cools off a bit in AZ, but I may be out to
pick it up, as I need to clean out my locker in Napa anyway.

Hunt

Emery Davis wrote:

Emery Davis wrote:

> Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
> back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
> as MT )
> Here are the criteria: should be available from K&L or another
downtown store. Price is not really an object other than if it's
> too unreasonable she won't get it, and I'll be disappointed.
> Please specify all info necessary to find the wine you're talking
> about (i.e. year, vinyard, etc.)


Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can buy
anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere.
There are many good wine stores in SF that have wines that are not
available outside the state. How about Rafanelli or Armida Poizin or
Selby or Carol Shelton. Turley wines are hard to come by in most places.
How about some Ridge Unobtainium. There has got to be a lot of good
wines that you can't buy at home.

Emery Davis wrote:

Emery Davis wrote:

> Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
> back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
> as MT )
> Here are the criteria: should be available from K&L or another
downtown store. Price is not really an object other than if it's
> too unreasonable she won't get it, and I'll be disappointed.
> Please specify all info necessary to find the wine you're talking
> about (i.e. year, vinyard, etc.)


Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can buy
anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere.
There are many good wine stores in SF that have wines that are not
available outside the state. How about Rafanelli or Armida Poizin or
Selby or Carol Shelton. Turley wines are hard to come by in most places.
How about some Ridge Unobtainium. There has got to be a lot of good
wines that you can't buy at home.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:45:45 -0600, Ed Rasimus > said:

[snip]
] Amador county is a very "hot" region--in the sense of producing some
] exceptional examples, not particularly in reference to the climate. I
] really like Renwood and both the Grandmere and Grandpere offerings are
] exceptional.
]
] Can't go wrong with Fife either--the Mendocino or Whaler.
]

Thanks Ed, I was hoping to hear from you on this one. I'd definitely
like to try something from Amador, that's exactly what I was
looking for.

So, Grandmere and Grandpere are Renwood Amador cuvees? Any particular
year you prefer?

] If you find a Turley and can stand the tariff, you might buy it, if
] only to say you'd done it once!
]

I think Adele would probably laugh and leave the store empty handed
if I asked for Turley...

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On 11 Jul 2005 22:23:14 GMT, (Hunt) said:

] In article >, says
] ...
[]
] > You really can't go too wrong with current releases: 2001 and 2002
] >were both excellent Zin vintages and, while I haven't tried many '03s,
] >it should be very good as well. As for producers, there's the usual
] >suspects (Ridge, Ravenswood, Rosenblum, Storybook Mountain, Cline,
] >Biale, Seghesio) and the smaller producers (Zoom, Dashe, Fife) and the
] >more controversial (Turley, Martinelli). It might be educational to
] >pick 3 from different regions (Dry Creek/Geyserville, Amador, Paso
] >Robles, Napa) to investigate terroir in Zins. If she shops at K&L, she
] >might also find some aged Zins for sale: right now, they're selling some
] >older Biale Zins and quite a few aged Turleys.
] >
] >HTH
] >Mark Lipton
]
] I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my
] allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently tasted
] the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent.
]
] The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a tasting
] some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me, at
] least.
]

Hunt, Mark -

I like the terroir idea a lot too. Say I go with Ed's Renwood from Amador,
and a Biale -- because I don't know them at all. Although Black Chicken
and Dogtown Flats have a certain romantic quality, I hate to choose based
on name alone. Can you clue me in to what might be the tariest, spiciest,
pipe tobacco-iest, blackest fruit of the bunch? (In short, to make the
french audience say: Wot the Fo*?) Without, mind you, being
contraversial!

Funny, of the "majors" in Mark's list Biale is the one I really have no
experience with.

Thanks!

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

"Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can
buy
anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere"

Pantheras,
It should be noted that Emery lives in France (Normandy I believe)
where ANY American wine is somewhat of an oddity.

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:14:25 GMT, Bill Loftin > said:

[]
] Emery Davis wrote:
]
] > Adele is currently in SF for work, and can be persuaded to bring
] > back 3 bottles of great CA zinfandel. (I guess she's not as strong
] > as MT )
] > Here are the criteria: should be available from K&L or another
] downtown store. Price is not really an object other than if it's
] > too unreasonable she won't get it, and I'll be disappointed.
] > Please specify all info necessary to find the wine you're talking
] > about (i.e. year, vinyard, etc.)
]
]
] Don't waste Adele's time and effort bringing back wine that you can buy
] anywhere. If it is for sale at K&L, it is for sale almost anywhere.
] There are many good wine stores in SF that have wines that are not
] available outside the state. How about Rafanelli or Armida Poizin or
] Selby or Carol Shelton. Turley wines are hard to come by in most places.
] How about some Ridge Unobtainium. There has got to be a lot of good
] wines that you can't buy at home.

Thanks for your thoughts, Bill. As you may recall, we live in Normandy,
so Zin of any kind at all is pretty much "Unobtanium." (Is that a real
wine, or a joke?) As this is the cepage we miss the most from the US,
I don't think her time will be wasted almost no matter what she brings.

I suggested K&L because it's not too far from downtown, she
knows where it is and it has a large selection.

I've heard great things about some of the names you mention, can
you be more specific about where they might be available? Also,
following Mark's excellent terroir suggestion, do you know where
the fruit on these is from?

thanks

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:49:39 +0200, Emery Davis >
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:45:45 -0600, Ed Rasimus > said:
>
>[snip]
>] Amador county is a very "hot" region--in the sense of producing some
>] exceptional examples, not particularly in reference to the climate. I
>] really like Renwood and both the Grandmere and Grandpere offerings are
>] exceptional.
>]
>] Can't go wrong with Fife either--the Mendocino or Whaler.
>]
>
>Thanks Ed, I was hoping to hear from you on this one. I'd definitely
>like to try something from Amador, that's exactly what I was
>looking for.
>
>So, Grandmere and Grandpere are Renwood Amador cuvees? Any particular
>year you prefer?

IIRC, it was the 2002 that I tasted around last October. The Grandmere
was a huge and wonderful wine, while the Grandpere was a tannin
monster that won't really settle down for another five years, but will
be great in the long haul. You'll probably find '02 and '03 on
dealer's shelves. Here in Colorado, the retail was around $20 for
Grammy and $28 for Gramps.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Emery Davis wrote:
]
> ] I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my
> ] allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently tasted
> ] the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent.
> ]
> ] The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a tasting
> ] some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me, at
> ] least.
> ]
>
> Hunt, Mark -
>
> I like the terroir idea a lot too. Say I go with Ed's Renwood from Amador,
> and a Biale -- because I don't know them at all. Although Black Chicken
> and Dogtown Flats have a certain romantic quality, I hate to choose based
> on name alone. Can you clue me in to what might be the tariest, spiciest,
> pipe tobacco-iest, blackest fruit of the bunch? (In short, to make the
> french audience say: Wot the Fo*?) Without, mind you, being
> contraversial!

Emery,
To do the terroir thang, you'll probably want to stick to a single
vintage, of which 2002 will give you the most options. Re Biale's
wines, they are hard enough to score that I'd just grab whichever I
could find. In an ideal world, I'd probably choose the Aldo's or Black
Chicken, but that's just me. Now, about the tarry, spicy, black idea:
that's what you'll get with an Amador Zin, but a top Sonoma Zin such as
Biale has will typically show more tart raspberry and pepper, which is
after all the point of a terroir tasting, no?

>
> Funny, of the "majors" in Mark's list Biale is the one I really have no
> experience with.

Biale isn't a major in the sense of a Ridge or Ravenswood: his
production isn't even a tenth of theirs, I'd wager. I included him in
my "usual suspects" because along with the 3 Rs his wines are about as
reliable as they get, year in and year out being tasty, ultra-correct
Zins. I didn't include Renwood in the list because my experiences with
them have been more spotty, but Ed's vouching for them in '02 is a good
guarantee. Other good Amador producers are Karly (esp. "Warrior Fires")
and Easton (run by Bill Easton, who started Solano Cellars way back
when). Renwood has far larger production, however, and is easier to
find. The Grandpere vineyard got its name because it has the oldest
documented vines in CA (1856 or something like that), but Scott Harvey
of Folie A Deux owns the vineyard, so Renwood's Grandpere is from
another source now.

Good luck, and post notes when you open them! ;-)

Mark Lipton

In article <3iRAe.147216$x96.85875@attbi_s72>, says...
>
>Emery Davis wrote:
> ]
>> ] I concur on these selections, especially the Biale. I've been nursing my
>> ] allocation of the Black Chicken, Aldo's, and Grande sv's, and recently
taste
>d
>> ] the Spinker and Dogtown Flats [?] from the '02. All excellent.
>> ]
>> ] The idea of finding the terroir in Zins is a great one. I attended a
tasting
>
>> ] some years back with just that theme and it was an "eye-opener" for me,
at
>> ] least.
>> ]
>>
>> Hunt, Mark -
>>
>> I like the terroir idea a lot too. Say I go with Ed's Renwood from
Amador,
>> and a Biale -- because I don't know them at all. Although Black Chicken
>> and Dogtown Flats have a certain romantic quality, I hate to choose based
>> on name alone. Can you clue me in to what might be the tariest, spiciest,
>> pipe tobacco-iest, blackest fruit of the bunch? (In short, to make the
>> french audience say: Wot the Fo*?) Without, mind you, being
>> contraversial!
>
>Emery,
> To do the terroir thang, you'll probably want to stick to a single
>vintage, of which 2002 will give you the most options. Re Biale's
>wines, they are hard enough to score that I'd just grab whichever I
>could find. In an ideal world, I'd probably choose the Aldo's or Black
>Chicken, but that's just me. Now, about the tarry, spicy, black idea:
>that's what you'll get with an Amador Zin, but a top Sonoma Zin such as
>Biale has will typically show more tart raspberry and pepper, which is
>after all the point of a terroir tasting, no?
>
>>
>> Funny, of the "majors" in Mark's list Biale is the one I really have no
>> experience with.
>
>Biale isn't a major in the sense of a Ridge or Ravenswood: his
>production isn't even a tenth of theirs, I'd wager. I included him in
>my "usual suspects" because along with the 3 Rs his wines are about as
>reliable as they get, year in and year out being tasty, ultra-correct
>Zins. I didn't include Renwood in the list because my experiences with
>them have been more spotty, but Ed's vouching for them in '02 is a good
>guarantee. Other good Amador producers are Karly (esp. "Warrior Fires")
>and Easton (run by Bill Easton, who started Solano Cellars way back
>when). Renwood has far larger production, however, and is easier to
>find. The Grandpere vineyard got its name because it has the oldest
>documented vines in CA (1856 or something like that), but Scott Harvey
>of Folie A Deux owns the vineyard, so Renwood's Grandpere is from
>another source now.
>
>Good luck, and post notes when you open them! ;-)
>
>Mark Lipton

Second Mark's suggestions:

For the Terroir Tasting to have the most impact, I'd line up at least one from
each, Sonoma, Paso Robles, Santa Cruz Mtns, and Amador. Stylistically, you
will see a load of difference between vintners/vineyards in each, but for a
terroir comparison, you cannot go too far off with those AVAs.

Most of all, good luck, and please report how both your search and the tasting
go.

Hunt

Someone bought for me (as a gift) Trentadue 2002 "La Storia" Alexander
Valley zinfandel. Alcohol was a whopping 15.85%, but I thought it was
a helluva wine which managed to mask the heat very well. Cepage is 85%
zinfandel, 10% petite sirah, and 5% carignane.


The Wine News rated it 93 points and says:


"Brooding, viscous purple hue. Uplifting plum, cherry and alcohol aromas
with a whiff of pencil and cedar. Layers of plum and blueberry flavors
with a complementing mineral nuance that adds depth and structure while
driving the fruit-laden finish. $28"


The 2001 was rated 90 points by Robert Parker. I am a fan of big, monster
zins. In fact, I am on the Turley mailing list. However, I think that
this Trentadue zinfandel is the best zinfandel under $30 I have possibly
ever tasted.


Dimitri

D. Gerasimatos wrote:

> The 2001 was rated 90 points by Robert Parker. I am a fan of big, monster
> zins. In fact, I am on the Turley mailing list. However, I think that
> this Trentadue zinfandel is the best zinfandel under $30 I have possibly
> ever tasted.

The '84 Ridge Geyserville was $5.50 and a hell of a wine; the '90 was
$15 and perhaps my favorite of the past 25 years. ;-)

Mark Lipton

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
>The '84 Ridge Geyserville was $5.50 and a hell of a wine; the '90 was
>$15 and perhaps my favorite of the past 25 years. ;-)


Well, Ridge Geyserville is still only $30. How do you rate it compared
to Trentadue? I am not sure I'd take the Ridge, although I like Ridge
wines.


Dimitri

D. Gerasimatos wrote:

> In article >,
> Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
>>The '84 Ridge Geyserville was $5.50 and a hell of a wine; the '90 was
>>$15 and perhaps my favorite of the past 25 years. ;-)
>
>
>
> Well, Ridge Geyserville is still only $30. How do you rate it compared
> to Trentadue? I am not sure I'd take the Ridge, although I like Ridge
> wines.

I haven't had any recent vintages, Dimitri, although I've liked their
Zins in past vintages. If I see any, I'll give it a try. FWIW, I'm no
longer such a big fan of "monster" Zins, though I still want wines of
substance. It's all semantics, I suppose.

Mark Lipton