And you KNOW who you are.

Nutbuster wrote:
> And you KNOW who you are.
>
>

Mr. Buster:

One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just
a moment.

Do you hang in this newsgroup because you do enjoy wine, or did you just
find it an easy target? If you DO enjoy wine, could/would you take just
a moment and share any serious thoughts you had on wines you like?

If not, I apologize in advance for the interruption to your hobby.
Thanks for your time.

--

http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

Nutbuster wrote:
> And you KNOW who you are.
>
>

Mr. Buster:

One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just
a moment.

Do you hang in this newsgroup because you do enjoy wine, or did you just
find it an easy target? If you DO enjoy wine, could/would you take just
a moment and share any serious thoughts you had on wines you like?

If not, I apologize in advance for the interruption to your hobby.
Thanks for your time.

--

http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

My favorite at the moment is the 2001 Camus Cab. I also like Merlots,
Sangiovasi, Syrah.
There are some interesting people on this NG.



"MikeD" > wrote in message
m...
> Nutbuster wrote:
>> And you KNOW who you are.
>
> Mr. Buster:
>
> One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just a
> moment.
>
> Do you hang in this newsgroup because you do enjoy wine, or did you just
> find it an easy target? If you DO enjoy wine, could/would you take just a
> moment and share any serious thoughts you had on wines you like?
>
> If not, I apologize in advance for the interruption to your hobby. Thanks
> for your time.
>
> --
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

My favorite at the moment is the 2001 Camus Cab. I also like Merlots,
Sangiovasi, Syrah.
There are some interesting people on this NG.



"MikeD" > wrote in message
m...
> Nutbuster wrote:
>> And you KNOW who you are.
>
> Mr. Buster:
>
> One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just a
> moment.
>
> Do you hang in this newsgroup because you do enjoy wine, or did you just
> find it an easy target? If you DO enjoy wine, could/would you take just a
> moment and share any serious thoughts you had on wines you like?
>
> If not, I apologize in advance for the interruption to your hobby. Thanks
> for your time.
>
> --
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.

I asked the guy a serious wine related question, and he was nice enough
to provide me with a serious reply. I have no issue with him. If I
don't like his posts, I simply go on to the next one.



http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mike Tommasi wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 23:42:07 GMT, MikeD > wrote:
>
>
>>Nutbuster wrote:
>>
>>>And you KNOW who you are.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Mr. Buster:
>>
>>One serious question, if I may distract you from your trolling for just
>>a moment.
>
>
> Feed 'em and they will stay.
>
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Myron:

Ignoring them doesn't make them "go away"... it makes them move on to
the next newsgroup or forum, or simply change their handle making your
"ignore list" useless.

I'll state again that I asked the guy an on-topic question, and received
an on-topic reply. If you choose to add me to your kill file for that,
then by all means, add me. How I deal with trolls in my web experience
is my concern, and how you deal with them is yours. You choose to
ignore them, I choose to overlook them. There is a difference.

Now... back to the topic of the forum, please.


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Young Martle wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:10:40 GMT, MikeD > wrote:
>
>
>>I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
>>here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
>>away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>>
>>
>
>
> I've been on the web for over 12 years now,amd trolls have always been
> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" DOES make them go away!
>
> Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!
>
> Myron

Myron:

Ignoring them doesn't make them "go away"... it makes them move on to
the next newsgroup or forum, or simply change their handle making your
"ignore list" useless.

I'll state again that I asked the guy an on-topic question, and received
an on-topic reply. If you choose to add me to your kill file for that,
then by all means, add me. How I deal with trolls in my web experience
is my concern, and how you deal with them is yours. You choose to
ignore them, I choose to overlook them. There is a difference.

Now... back to the topic of the forum, please.


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Young Martle wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:10:40 GMT, MikeD > wrote:
>
>
>>I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
>>here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
>>away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>>
>>
>
>
> I've been on the web for over 12 years now,amd trolls have always been
> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" DOES make them go away!
>
> Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!
>
> Myron

See,
it's just like I said Mike- there are Peckerheads here, they know who they
are, but just can't help themselves.


"MikeD" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Myron:
>
> Ignoring them doesn't make them "go away"... it makes them move on to the
> next newsgroup or forum, or simply change their handle making your "ignore
> list" useless.
>
> I'll state again that I asked the guy an on-topic question, and received
> an on-topic reply. If you choose to add me to your kill file for that,
> then by all means, add me. How I deal with trolls in my web experience is
> my concern, and how you deal with them is yours. You choose to ignore
> them, I choose to overlook them. There is a difference.
>
> Now... back to the topic of the forum, please.
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
>
> Young Martle wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:10:40 GMT, MikeD > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
>>>here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
>>>away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've been on the web for over 12 years now,amd trolls have always been
>> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" DOES make them go away!
>>
>> Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!
>>
>> Myron

See,
it's just like I said Mike- there are Peckerheads here, they know who they
are, but just can't help themselves.


"MikeD" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Myron:
>
> Ignoring them doesn't make them "go away"... it makes them move on to the
> next newsgroup or forum, or simply change their handle making your "ignore
> list" useless.
>
> I'll state again that I asked the guy an on-topic question, and received
> an on-topic reply. If you choose to add me to your kill file for that,
> then by all means, add me. How I deal with trolls in my web experience is
> my concern, and how you deal with them is yours. You choose to ignore
> them, I choose to overlook them. There is a difference.
>
> Now... back to the topic of the forum, please.
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
>
> Young Martle wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 12:10:40 GMT, MikeD > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
>>>here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
>>>away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've been on the web for over 12 years now,amd trolls have always been
>> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" DOES make them go away!
>>
>> Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!
>>
>> Myron

> Do not feed the trolls or join them in the killfile!

These type of statements crack me up. Nobody really cares if you're adding
them to your killfile or not, but people like you still love to threaten
others (serious contributors to the group or not) with this so called "kiss
of death".

MikeD wrote:
>
> I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
> away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>
> I asked the guy a serious wine related question, and he was nice enough
> to provide me with a serious reply. I have no issue with him. If I
> don't like his posts, I simply go on to the next one.
>
>

Hello Mike,

No disrespect but you are wrong.

Public nuisance is normally a cry for attention.

No attention == boredom == going somewhere else.


Notice you have just provided more attention and a little thrill for our
seemingly 12 year old friends.


Abusing other contributors, posting nonsence, ridiculing the subject etc
all sounds like trolling behaviour to me.

And I have been on the web for at least as long as you. And I can say
from experience what I have said is true.

Ignore it and eventually it will go away.


Mat.

MikeD wrote:
>
> I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
> away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>
> I asked the guy a serious wine related question, and he was nice enough
> to provide me with a serious reply. I have no issue with him. If I
> don't like his posts, I simply go on to the next one.
>
>

Hello Mike,

No disrespect but you are wrong.

Public nuisance is normally a cry for attention.

No attention == boredom == going somewhere else.


Notice you have just provided more attention and a little thrill for our
seemingly 12 year old friends.


Abusing other contributors, posting nonsence, ridiculing the subject etc
all sounds like trolling behaviour to me.

And I have been on the web for at least as long as you. And I can say
from experience what I have said is true.

Ignore it and eventually it will go away.


Mat.

Mat:

I understand your point, but I think you're missing one key element
here. As with most trolls (if not all of them) this one more than
likely is someone who frequents this NG as a normal user, as well. The
guy isn't living his entire online presence as a childish troll. That's
his online hobby. If he is a normal NG member he will not be going
away. On the days the troll isn't here his real member presence will be.

Most trolls would find a wine discussion forum completely boring
compared to more popular troll habitat like news media forums, where
thousands of people post every week. Why is this guy hanging around a
few dozen wine geeks when there are larger targets out there? Because,
more likely than not, he is a wine geek too--or at least likes to read
about wine. Could I be wrong, sure. but the fact that he gets one or
two responses a week in this forum is *not* the reason he is hanging
around, IMHO. It would simply be too boring for a normal troll. If what
you say about public attention is true, why is he hanging here instead
of a forum where he can get 100x the exposure?

This is the primary reason I asked the guy an on-topic wine question. I
wasn't surprised by his answer. Instead of attacking me he provided an
intelligent response that was on-topic. That tells me the guy is into
wine, or at least has a bit of knowledge about the subject. At the very
least he drinks the stuff.

I am not supporting what the guy says, or saying he has the right to say
it. Again, I asked the guy an on-topic question (which no one else in
this forum has done in any responses to him since I've been a member)
and got an on-topic reply.

I don't want everyone upset at me, but if people want to kill-file me
for on-topic posts I really don't mind. I'm only here to discuss wine
and learn from you gents.

Oh, and don't worry about telling me I'm wrong... my wife does it all
the time. <grin>

Thanks,

Mike



http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mat wrote:
> MikeD wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been on the web for over 7 years now, and trolls have always been
>> here and they will always be. "Ignoring them" does not make them go
>> away. In fact, it only reinforces the fact that they've got to you.
>>
>> I asked the guy a serious wine related question, and he was nice
>> enough to provide me with a serious reply. I have no issue with him.
>> If I don't like his posts, I simply go on to the next one.
>>
>>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> No disrespect but you are wrong.
>
> Public nuisance is normally a cry for attention.
>
> No attention == boredom == going somewhere else.
>
>
> Notice you have just provided more attention and a little thrill for our
> seemingly 12 year old friends.
>
>
> Abusing other contributors, posting nonsence, ridiculing the subject etc
> all sounds like trolling behaviour to me.
>
> And I have been on the web for at least as long as you. And I can say
> from experience what I have said is true.
>
> Ignore it and eventually it will go away.
>
>
> Mat.
>

MikeD wrote:

>
> Mat:
>
> I understand your point, but I think you're missing one key element
> here. As with most trolls (if not all of them) this one more than
> likely is someone who frequents this NG as a normal user, as well. The
> guy isn't living his entire online presence as a childish troll. That's
> his online hobby. If he is a normal NG member he will not be going
> away. On the days the troll isn't here his real member presence will be.
>
> Most trolls would find a wine discussion forum completely boring
> compared to more popular troll habitat like news media forums, where
> thousands of people post every week. Why is this guy hanging around a
> few dozen wine geeks when there are larger targets out there? Because,
> more likely than not, he is a wine geek too--or at least likes to read
> about wine. Could I be wrong, sure. but the fact that he gets one or
> two responses a week in this forum is *not* the reason he is hanging
> around, IMHO. It would simply be too boring for a normal troll. If what
> you say about public attention is true, why is he hanging here instead
> of a forum where he can get 100x the exposure?
>
> This is the primary reason I asked the guy an on-topic wine question. I
> wasn't surprised by his answer. Instead of attacking me he provided an
> intelligent response that was on-topic. That tells me the guy is into
> wine, or at least has a bit of knowledge about the subject. At the very
> least he drinks the stuff.
>
> I am not supporting what the guy says, or saying he has the right to say
> it. Again, I asked the guy an on-topic question (which no one else in
> this forum has done in any responses to him since I've been a member)
> and got an on-topic reply.
>
> I don't want everyone upset at me, but if people want to kill-file me
> for on-topic posts I really don't mind. I'm only here to discuss wine
> and learn from you gents.
>
> Oh, and don't worry about telling me I'm wrong... my wife does it all
> the time. <grin>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>

Hello Mike,

Perhaps I should rephrase that. If you ignore it [the trolling] it will
stop.

The guy[s] could be Robert Parker, but that does not mean trolling
should be encouraged or their prescence legitimised by replying to the
occaisional post that is not pure crap.

If trolls were genuinely interested and wanted to contribute in a
constructive way on a subject they enjoyed they would not troll.
Particuarly when its not funny trolling, but malicious trolling. I enjoy
a good laugh as much as the next person, but a lot of the latest batch
of troll activity is purely malicious, and aimed specifically at a
particular member at a time.

There is also the fact some of the current trolls in here have been
exposed as trolling in other larger groups as well [just google some of
the nicks]. So the argument about not just looking for attention you
posited is not strictly true.

Plus of course a low-medium traffic group is much easier to manage than
a large group. Where your trolling activities take up an awful lot of
time to get the same little thrill.


So, I would encourage everyone to simply not reply. I don't killfile ppl
because I'm old and ugly enough to usually restrain myself. And I wait
with baited breath for something funny.

I'm not sure what my partner says to me. Something don't listen
something, I'm not sure, I wasn't listening.



Mat.

MikeD wrote:

>
> Mat:
>
> I understand your point, but I think you're missing one key element
> here. As with most trolls (if not all of them) this one more than
> likely is someone who frequents this NG as a normal user, as well. The
> guy isn't living his entire online presence as a childish troll. That's
> his online hobby. If he is a normal NG member he will not be going
> away. On the days the troll isn't here his real member presence will be.
>
> Most trolls would find a wine discussion forum completely boring
> compared to more popular troll habitat like news media forums, where
> thousands of people post every week. Why is this guy hanging around a
> few dozen wine geeks when there are larger targets out there? Because,
> more likely than not, he is a wine geek too--or at least likes to read
> about wine. Could I be wrong, sure. but the fact that he gets one or
> two responses a week in this forum is *not* the reason he is hanging
> around, IMHO. It would simply be too boring for a normal troll. If what
> you say about public attention is true, why is he hanging here instead
> of a forum where he can get 100x the exposure?
>
> This is the primary reason I asked the guy an on-topic wine question. I
> wasn't surprised by his answer. Instead of attacking me he provided an
> intelligent response that was on-topic. That tells me the guy is into
> wine, or at least has a bit of knowledge about the subject. At the very
> least he drinks the stuff.
>
> I am not supporting what the guy says, or saying he has the right to say
> it. Again, I asked the guy an on-topic question (which no one else in
> this forum has done in any responses to him since I've been a member)
> and got an on-topic reply.
>
> I don't want everyone upset at me, but if people want to kill-file me
> for on-topic posts I really don't mind. I'm only here to discuss wine
> and learn from you gents.
>
> Oh, and don't worry about telling me I'm wrong... my wife does it all
> the time. <grin>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>

Hello Mike,

Perhaps I should rephrase that. If you ignore it [the trolling] it will
stop.

The guy[s] could be Robert Parker, but that does not mean trolling
should be encouraged or their prescence legitimised by replying to the
occaisional post that is not pure crap.

If trolls were genuinely interested and wanted to contribute in a
constructive way on a subject they enjoyed they would not troll.
Particuarly when its not funny trolling, but malicious trolling. I enjoy
a good laugh as much as the next person, but a lot of the latest batch
of troll activity is purely malicious, and aimed specifically at a
particular member at a time.

There is also the fact some of the current trolls in here have been
exposed as trolling in other larger groups as well [just google some of
the nicks]. So the argument about not just looking for attention you
posited is not strictly true.

Plus of course a low-medium traffic group is much easier to manage than
a large group. Where your trolling activities take up an awful lot of
time to get the same little thrill.


So, I would encourage everyone to simply not reply. I don't killfile ppl
because I'm old and ugly enough to usually restrain myself. And I wait
with baited breath for something funny.

I'm not sure what my partner says to me. Something don't listen
something, I'm not sure, I wasn't listening.



Mat.

Mat:

As I said in an earlier post--there are two different philosophies when
dealing with trolls: ignore them, or overlook them.

I guess I should explain my take on it. Ignoring a troll, in my
opinion, validates that you are irritated by their behavior.
Overlooking them means that you acknowledge their existance, but make no
reference to the ignorant portions of their posts. You simply are on
higher moral ground and could care less what they say in a post.

When you burn energy maintaining kill files, sending off-topic replies,
reporting them to Internet authorities, etc., they've basically
won--they have successfully pulled you down to their level.

In any case, we'll agree to disagree on the subject as I don't want my
rantings to continue to take the group off topic. My apologies to all
for the waste of bandwidth. The next bottle of wine is on me.

Mike


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mat wrote:
> MikeD wrote:
>
>>
>> Mat:
>>
>> I understand your point, but I think you're missing one key element
>> here. As with most trolls (if not all of them) this one more than
>> likely is someone who frequents this NG as a normal user, as well.
>> The guy isn't living his entire online presence as a childish troll.
>> That's his online hobby. If he is a normal NG member he will not be
>> going away. On the days the troll isn't here his real member presence
>> will be.
>>
>> Most trolls would find a wine discussion forum completely boring
>> compared to more popular troll habitat like news media forums, where
>> thousands of people post every week. Why is this guy hanging around a
>> few dozen wine geeks when there are larger targets out there?
>> Because, more likely than not, he is a wine geek too--or at least
>> likes to read about wine. Could I be wrong, sure. but the fact that
>> he gets one or two responses a week in this forum is *not* the reason
>> he is hanging around, IMHO. It would simply be too boring for a normal
>> troll. If what you say about public attention is true, why is he
>> hanging here instead of a forum where he can get 100x the exposure?
>>
>> This is the primary reason I asked the guy an on-topic wine question.
>> I wasn't surprised by his answer. Instead of attacking me he provided
>> an intelligent response that was on-topic. That tells me the guy is
>> into wine, or at least has a bit of knowledge about the subject. At
>> the very least he drinks the stuff.
>>
>> I am not supporting what the guy says, or saying he has the right to
>> say it. Again, I asked the guy an on-topic question (which no one
>> else in this forum has done in any responses to him since I've been a
>> member) and got an on-topic reply.
>>
>> I don't want everyone upset at me, but if people want to kill-file me
>> for on-topic posts I really don't mind. I'm only here to discuss wine
>> and learn from you gents.
>>
>> Oh, and don't worry about telling me I'm wrong... my wife does it all
>> the time. <grin>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Perhaps I should rephrase that. If you ignore it [the trolling] it will
> stop.
>
> The guy[s] could be Robert Parker, but that does not mean trolling
> should be encouraged or their prescence legitimised by replying to the
> occaisional post that is not pure crap.
>
> If trolls were genuinely interested and wanted to contribute in a
> constructive way on a subject they enjoyed they would not troll.
> Particuarly when its not funny trolling, but malicious trolling. I enjoy
> a good laugh as much as the next person, but a lot of the latest batch
> of troll activity is purely malicious, and aimed specifically at a
> particular member at a time.
>
> There is also the fact some of the current trolls in here have been
> exposed as trolling in other larger groups as well [just google some of
> the nicks]. So the argument about not just looking for attention you
> posited is not strictly true.
>
> Plus of course a low-medium traffic group is much easier to manage than
> a large group. Where your trolling activities take up an awful lot of
> time to get the same little thrill.
>
>
> So, I would encourage everyone to simply not reply. I don't killfile ppl
> because I'm old and ugly enough to usually restrain myself. And I wait
> with baited breath for something funny.
>
> I'm not sure what my partner says to me. Something don't listen
> something, I'm not sure, I wasn't listening.
>
>
>
> Mat.
>

MikeD wrote:

>
> Mat:
>
> As I said in an earlier post--there are two different philosophies when
> dealing with trolls: ignore them, or overlook them.
>
> I guess I should explain my take on it. Ignoring a troll, in my
> opinion, validates that you are irritated by their behavior. Overlooking
> them means that you acknowledge their existance, but make no reference
> to the ignorant portions of their posts. You simply are on higher moral
> ground and could care less what they say in a post.
>
> When you burn energy maintaining kill files, sending off-topic replies,
> reporting them to Internet authorities, etc., they've basically
> won--they have successfully pulled you down to their level.
>
> In any case, we'll agree to disagree on the subject as I don't want my
> rantings to continue to take the group off topic. My apologies to all
> for the waste of bandwidth. The next bottle of wine is on me.
>
> Mike
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
>

Hello Mike,


I think you may find, as with all behaviour, from dogs to slightly
higher beings, ignoring a behaviour is often a good technique to
extinguishing that behaviour. Turning one's back indicates one's
displeasure and disdain at another's behaviour.

Trolls aren't here to contribute. They're here to gain some thrill from
disruptive behaviour. Otherwise by definition they would not be trolls.

You responding to them is only reinforcing these behaviours.

Which in turn means we all have to put up with them for even longer.

Don't you see? Even if you only respond to the small %ge of their post/s
that is on topic, you are just legitimising the rest of their behaviour
as well. Playing the prodigal son game, lets be nice until they start
behaving is not going to work in this environment.


I've been through this in many a usenet group and other forums Mike. I
also have minute knowledge in the reasoning behind it. Trust me, all
you're doing is prolonging the behaviour.

So what you decide is up to you. But don't say I didn't tell you.


And given the extended coverage trolls *again* have gotten, no doubt
there is some gratification going on as we speak. Which is the whole point.

And which this post is just perpetuating.



So that is all. Back OT.


Mat.

MikeD wrote:


Hello Mike,

I was wondering how the website is going?

And whereabouts you are located.

And what wines you like. Particuarly any from Australia. But any old
thing will do.


Mat.

MikeD wrote:


Hello Mike,

I was wondering how the website is going?

And whereabouts you are located.

And what wines you like. Particuarly any from Australia. But any old
thing will do.


Mat.

Mat:

The site is going well. I've been a little slow at adding new content
lately due to long hours at work and home (remodeling house to sell).
Hopefully I'll get more content out there soon. I'm in Ohio, USA.

So far I've found Australian Shiraz to be one of my favorites. Yellow
Tail and Lindemens are two that I like quite a bit. I've just added a
bottle of Lindemens Bin 55 Shiraz Cabernet to the cellar. It's 2004, so
I'm holding that back for a bit.

I've yet to try any of the more expensive Australian Shiraz, so I doubt
I can offer any tasting experiences that a well-seasoned wine enthusiast
would want to hear :0)

-Mike


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mat wrote:
> MikeD wrote:
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> I was wondering how the website is going?
>
> And whereabouts you are located.
>
> And what wines you like. Particuarly any from Australia. But any old
> thing will do.
>
>
> Mat.
>

Mat:

The site is going well. I've been a little slow at adding new content
lately due to long hours at work and home (remodeling house to sell).
Hopefully I'll get more content out there soon. I'm in Ohio, USA.

So far I've found Australian Shiraz to be one of my favorites. Yellow
Tail and Lindemans are two that I like quite a bit. I've just added a
bottle of Lindemans Bin 55 Shiraz Cabernet to the cellar. It's 2004, so
I'm holding that back for a bit.

I've yet to try any of the more expensive Australian Shiraz, so I doubt
I can offer any tasting experiences that a well-seasoned wine enthusiast
would want to hear :0)

-Mike


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mat wrote:
> MikeD wrote:
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> I was wondering how the website is going?
>
> And whereabouts you are located.
>
> And what wines you like. Particuarly any from Australia. But any old
> thing will do.
>
>
> Mat.
>

MikeD wrote:

>
> Mat:
>
> The site is going well. I've been a little slow at adding new content
> lately due to long hours at work and home (remodeling house to sell).
> Hopefully I'll get more content out there soon. I'm in Ohio, USA.
>
> So far I've found Australian Shiraz to be one of my favorites. Yellow
> Tail and Lindemans are two that I like quite a bit. I've just added a
> bottle of Lindemans Bin 55 Shiraz Cabernet to the cellar. It's 2004, so
> I'm holding that back for a bit.
>
> I've yet to try any of the more expensive Australian Shiraz, so I doubt
> I can offer any tasting experiences that a well-seasoned wine enthusiast
> would want to hear :0)
>
> -Mike
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
>
> Mat wrote:
>

Hello Mike,

Good to hear the site is going well. We seem to have a lot of ppl from
Ohio in here.

I've had the yellow tail and the lindemans. The yellow tail was quite
drinkable, though a touch sweet. The Lindemans shiraz I've always found
quite bitter and rough with prominent alcohol. They both go for a song
here, well under $10AU.

Blends I always find are a little more forgiving, so the shiraz cabernet
will probably be a lot more drinkable. The Lindemans bin range are aimed
at the drink now market, so I don't think I'd be cellaring it for too
long. In fact my Australian wine book has them all [up to 2003] as
"drink now".

I have some lindeman bins in the collection, which I should drink very
soon if I get round to it. And some of the Cawarra range [bottom level
lindemans] which I have generally found to be almost undrinkable. I
believe the lindemans reserve range is quite ok.

I have no idea what range you have available to you in Ohio, so I can't
really tell you what I would recommend. De Bortoli is quite reliable and
probably available there. Um Rosemount is usually fairly quaffable if
not particuarly exciting. Wolf Blass quite good. Brown Brothers. Peter
Lehmann. Taylors. I'm just trying to name some producers that are big
enough to be where you are.

I do however note that in many cases most of my tightarse Tuesday
Australian wine posts get passed over. So if you want to know anything
or whatever just ask and I will tell. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty
low rent in comparison to a lot of posters in here, so I'm more than
happy to help with stuff on the lower end of the Australian market. 68
Grange is not really something I drink everyday.

There is a bit of a lack of posters around the bracket you are talking
about. I guess the longer you are around the more expensive your taste gets.

As for well seasoned wine enthusiast, you would need to shove a kilo of
sage, basil, sea salt, thyme, lemon zest etc etc in a given oriface for
me to be well seasoned. I like posts about stuff I can go down the shop
and buy without having to take out a personal loan.


Mat.

Hi All,
I've skipped over this entire thread because I thought
it pertained to ornithologists who specialize in the
study of woodpeckers, and I assumed the posts were directed
to the wrong newsgroup. Did I miss anything? :-)

Dick R.

Hi All,
I've skipped over this entire thread because I thought
it pertained to ornithologists who specialize in the
study of woodpeckers, and I assumed the posts were directed
to the wrong newsgroup. Did I miss anything? :-)

Dick R.

Mat:

Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
it's "good."

I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
a matter of patience.

Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.

I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
few days.

I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.

If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he

http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01

-Mike


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Good to hear the site is going well. We seem to have a lot of ppl from
> Ohio in here.
>
> I've had the yellow tail and the lindemans. The yellow tail was quite
> drinkable, though a touch sweet. The Lindemans shiraz I've always found
> quite bitter and rough with prominent alcohol. They both go for a song
> here, well under $10AU.
>
> Blends I always find are a little more forgiving, so the shiraz cabernet
> will probably be a lot more drinkable. The Lindemans bin range are aimed
> at the drink now market, so I don't think I'd be cellaring it for too
> long. In fact my Australian wine book has them all [up to 2003] as
> "drink now".
>
> I have some lindeman bins in the collection, which I should drink very
> soon if I get round to it. And some of the Cawarra range [bottom level
> lindemans] which I have generally found to be almost undrinkable. I
> believe the lindemans reserve range is quite ok.
>
> I have no idea what range you have available to you in Ohio, so I can't
> really tell you what I would recommend. De Bortoli is quite reliable and
> probably available there. Um Rosemount is usually fairly quaffable if
> not particuarly exciting. Wolf Blass quite good. Brown Brothers. Peter
> Lehmann. Taylors. I'm just trying to name some producers that are big
> enough to be where you are.
>
> I do however note that in many cases most of my tightarse Tuesday
> Australian wine posts get passed over. So if you want to know anything
> or whatever just ask and I will tell. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty
> low rent in comparison to a lot of posters in here, so I'm more than
> happy to help with stuff on the lower end of the Australian market. 68
> Grange is not really something I drink everyday.
>
> There is a bit of a lack of posters around the bracket you are talking
> about. I guess the longer you are around the more expensive your taste
> gets.
>
> As for well seasoned wine enthusiast, you would need to shove a kilo of
> sage, basil, sea salt, thyme, lemon zest etc etc in a given oriface for
> me to be well seasoned. I like posts about stuff I can go down the shop
> and buy without having to take out a personal loan.
>
>
> Mat.
>

MikeD wrote:


Hello Mike,

Yes I am not being harsh on you. I have drunk as much cheap plonk as
anyone. And finding diamonds in the rough is all part of the fun.

I'll drink an awful lot of reds that a lot of people wouldn't touch. But
then probably not buy them ever again. A casual glass of red with
friends even if it is fairly poor is fine by me. So long as it is not
beyond the point of awful I'll drink it.

I think if you are getting the lemon face syndrome with reds [you screw
up your face and your mouth puckers] it is the tannins. Cheaper wines
tend to have really rough tannins. Dry wines like a nice dry shiraz can
be quite good. The term "fruit bomb" is used a lot. I think it is
probably a lot easier to make and sell a wine with a fruitbowl of fruit
to hide the imperfections [such as rough tannins] that it is to make a
nice dry red with balanced smooth tannins.

So don't despair on the dry reds. There are a lot of nice ones out there.

As for the "hot" finish [like you've just drunk methol alcohol] I'm not
a big fan of that. When you feel like your sinuses have just cleared up
that is not pleasant to me.

It is the same the world over. 90%++ of wines are drunk within a short
time of purchase. Cellaring is a risky business, not to mention time
consuming and expensive. Most ppl just want to pop down to the shop and
pick something up for a quiet drink, dinner etc.

I'm not really sure about cellaring non-cellerables for that long. I
guess on the one hand they might soften slightly, but on the other hand
they're not getting any younger, they're made to drink fresh for maximum
flavour. They may dull in respects to fruit etc over that time.

I always look for sites like yours that are in that bracket. It looks
like it may well turn into something really good. There seems to be a
few complete newbs in the forum section, which is good.

I had a peek at your wine rack. That's a nifty little tool. Did you code
the page yourself? I think there is a way in javascript you can
determine the current position of the scroller and make the pop-ups stay
onscreen. They go off when you scroll down and look at stuff in the
middle to bottom of rack.

All of the US entries I've never heard of. Is the Fat ******* an
Australian? That would be helpful in the pop-up, country of origin.


Mat.


> Mat:
>
> Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
> my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
> tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
> it's "good."
>
> I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
> so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
> alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
> trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
> taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
> a matter of patience.
>
> Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
> or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
> ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>
> I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
> That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
> reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
> over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
> having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
> few days.
>
> I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
> Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
> I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
> Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>
> If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
> what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>
> -Mike
>
>
> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>

In article >,
says...
>
>Mat:
>
>Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
>my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
>tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
>it's "good."
>
>I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
>so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
>alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
>trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
>taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
>a matter of patience.
>
>Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
>or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
>ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>
>I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
> That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
>reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
>over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
>having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
>few days.
>
>I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
>Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
>I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
>Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>
>If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
>what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>
>http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>
>-Mike
>

>http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
[SNIP]

MikeD,

Looks like the Web site is off to a good start. I like the flow of it. It
appears that you have access to Costco in Ohio. Since they are a Pacific
Northwest operation, with most of their stores in CA and AZ, I never know how
far they reach. Also, each store (at least in CA and AZ) has a "wine buyer,"
and each has to justify their allocation. Taking that into consideration, I
have a few wines that fit into your cost point, and are available at Costco
he

Acacia Pinot Noir (US/CA Central Coast) - good to go when you get it, but
really benefits, IMO, from about a year in the cellar. Usually around US$19.
00.

Glen Carlou Grand Classique, Bordeaux Blend (SA/Paarl) - excellent Bdx blend.
For <US$13.00, I cannot find a better value wine. I don't know how this one
will age, as I keep drinking it up as an "everyday quaffer."

Mulderbosch Sauvignon Blanc (SA/Stellenbosch) - really crisp SB, with good
fruit and acidity. This one shows up on occasion at Costco, and is in the US$
13.00 range. Not up to par with most of the better NZ SB's, but it is about ½
the price.

Anything from Joseph Phelps. I am always amazed when I find these, and for
less than they cost me through the JP wine club! From the Napa Merlot to the
Insignia (much more expensive than the wines I see on your site, but well
worth the $), I always grab six, or so bottles of whatever is available and
save myself shipping, plus a few $. If you get a chance at the Ovation Chard,
or the Viognier, grab them at any Costco price.

For the "off-dry" white, but with a full, round body, I find the Caymus (
Caymus is no longer featured on the lable) Conundrum white blend, at ~US$19.
Even though it is a bit above the cost level of most of the whites that I saw
on the site, it is really a fine one. Don't serve this guy too cold, and also
try it in a larger glass, as the nose borders on fantastic. In the last three
vintages, they seem to have cut back on both the Viognier, and the Muscat, but
the aroma is still of "Southern Spring Nights," though slightly muted compared
to previous examples.

As you have the Ravenswood Sonoma Cab, I'd suggest that you also try their
Merlot and Zin. Known mostly for their single-vineyard Zins, the other reds
are quite good, especially at their respective price points.

Beringer Knights Valley (US/CA/Napa) For a US$25 Cab, this one is really nice.
Again, ready to go (with a bit of aeration and breathing), but holds up to 5
years in the cool and dark.

In article >,
says...
>
>Mat:
>
>Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
>my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
>tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
>it's "good."
>
>I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
>so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
>alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
>trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
>taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
>a matter of patience.
>
>Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
>or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
>ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>
>I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
> That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
>reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
>over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
>having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
>few days.
>
>I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
>Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
>I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
>Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>
>If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
>what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>
>http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>
>-Mike
>

>http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
[SNIP]

MikeD,

Looks like the Web site is off to a good start. I like the flow of it. It
appears that you have access to Costco in Ohio. Since they are a Pacific
Northwest operation, with most of their stores in CA and AZ, I never know how
far they reach. Also, each store (at least in CA and AZ) has a "wine buyer,"
and each has to justify their allocation. Taking that into consideration, I
have a few wines that fit into your cost point, and are available at Costco
he

Acacia Pinot Noir (US/CA Central Coast) - good to go when you get it, but
really benefits, IMO, from about a year in the cellar. Usually around US$19.
00.

Glen Carlou Grand Classique, Bordeaux Blend (SA/Paarl) - excellent Bdx blend.
For <US$13.00, I cannot find a better value wine. I don't know how this one
will age, as I keep drinking it up as an "everyday quaffer."

Mulderbosch Sauvignon Blanc (SA/Stellenbosch) - really crisp SB, with good
fruit and acidity. This one shows up on occasion at Costco, and is in the US$
13.00 range. Not up to par with most of the better NZ SB's, but it is about ½
the price.

Anything from Joseph Phelps. I am always amazed when I find these, and for
less than they cost me through the JP wine club! From the Napa Merlot to the
Insignia (much more expensive than the wines I see on your site, but well
worth the $), I always grab six, or so bottles of whatever is available and
save myself shipping, plus a few $. If you get a chance at the Ovation Chard,
or the Viognier, grab them at any Costco price.

For the "off-dry" white, but with a full, round body, I find the Caymus (
Caymus is no longer featured on the lable) Conundrum white blend, at ~US$19.
Even though it is a bit above the cost level of most of the whites that I saw
on the site, it is really a fine one. Don't serve this guy too cold, and also
try it in a larger glass, as the nose borders on fantastic. In the last three
vintages, they seem to have cut back on both the Viognier, and the Muscat, but
the aroma is still of "Southern Spring Nights," though slightly muted compared
to previous examples.

As you have the Ravenswood Sonoma Cab, I'd suggest that you also try their
Merlot and Zin. Known mostly for their single-vineyard Zins, the other reds
are quite good, especially at their respective price points.

Beringer Knights Valley (US/CA/Napa) For a US$25 Cab, this one is really nice.
Again, ready to go (with a bit of aeration and breathing), but holds up to 5
years in the cool and dark.

Mat:

Yes, did the coding myself. would love to find the code that pops up
the box to fit the current screen... havn't found it yet. Trust me.. I
know I need it. I hope the site does turn out to be something worth the
time. I add stuff as I have the time and energy. Just picked up 5
bottles of various wines to review, so this month I should be able to
get quite a bit of new material on there.

The Fat ******* Shiraz is made from French vines, according to the web
site (http://www.fat*******wine.com/fbwine_shiraz.htm).

I don't get the lemon "pucker" face from those wines. It's more the hot
aftertaste. To be honest, I cellar wine not to age it (don't really
have anything "age" worthly), but to ensure I have a variety to choose
from as I taste, learn, and review. The exception is the 2004 stuff.
I've read in several places that--even though wine is made to drink
"now"--it will help reds a little to age them. Who knows... it seems
everyone has a different opinion.

If you can point me to web pages that have pictures of the bottles you
find to be popular in your neck of the woods I'll let you know if we
have them around here. I'd like to know what you recommend that I try,
and having the pictures makes it easier to put them on the site.

Take care.

Mike



http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Mat wrote:
> MikeD wrote:
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Yes I am not being harsh on you. I have drunk as much cheap plonk as
> anyone. And finding diamonds in the rough is all part of the fun.
>
> I'll drink an awful lot of reds that a lot of people wouldn't touch. But
> then probably not buy them ever again. A casual glass of red with
> friends even if it is fairly poor is fine by me. So long as it is not
> beyond the point of awful I'll drink it.
>
> I think if you are getting the lemon face syndrome with reds [you screw
> up your face and your mouth puckers] it is the tannins. Cheaper wines
> tend to have really rough tannins. Dry wines like a nice dry shiraz can
> be quite good. The term "fruit bomb" is used a lot. I think it is
> probably a lot easier to make and sell a wine with a fruitbowl of fruit
> to hide the imperfections [such as rough tannins] that it is to make a
> nice dry red with balanced smooth tannins.
>
> So don't despair on the dry reds. There are a lot of nice ones out there.
>
> As for the "hot" finish [like you've just drunk methol alcohol] I'm not
> a big fan of that. When you feel like your sinuses have just cleared up
> that is not pleasant to me.
>
> It is the same the world over. 90%++ of wines are drunk within a short
> time of purchase. Cellaring is a risky business, not to mention time
> consuming and expensive. Most ppl just want to pop down to the shop and
> pick something up for a quiet drink, dinner etc.
>
> I'm not really sure about cellaring non-cellerables for that long. I
> guess on the one hand they might soften slightly, but on the other hand
> they're not getting any younger, they're made to drink fresh for maximum
> flavour. They may dull in respects to fruit etc over that time.
>
> I always look for sites like yours that are in that bracket. It looks
> like it may well turn into something really good. There seems to be a
> few complete newbs in the forum section, which is good.
>
> I had a peek at your wine rack. That's a nifty little tool. Did you code
> the page yourself? I think there is a way in javascript you can
> determine the current position of the scroller and make the pop-ups stay
> onscreen. They go off when you scroll down and look at stuff in the
> middle to bottom of rack.
>
> All of the US entries I've never heard of. Is the Fat ******* an
> Australian? That would be helpful in the pop-up, country of origin.
>
>
> Mat.
>
>
>> Mat:
>>
>> Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
>> my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
>> tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I
>> think it's "good."
>>
>> I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've
>> tried so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as
>> tannic or alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially
>> because I'm trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read
>> so far says a taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a
>> while, so maybe it is a matter of patience.
>>
>> Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
>> or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
>> ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>>
>> I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap"
>> wines. That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines.
>> No one reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here
>> in the US over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)!
>> I'm actually having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try
>> something new every few days.
>>
>> I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
>> Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the
>> hell, I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
>> Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>>
>> If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
>> what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>>
>> http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>>
>> http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>>
>

Hunt:

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll try to pick up a few of them as
soon as I can find them. I'm not sure where the nearest Costco is... we
have Sams Club, ALDIs, Trader Joes around here, so I'll find out where
the nearest Costco is.

BTW-- I exchange emails with the wine editor for our local newspaper
(The Plain Dealer). According to him, Wal-Mart is getting ready to set
up a wine section in all Super Wal-Mart locations. They sent him cases
of wine to review, and he's been telling the readers about them.
They're trying to compete with Trader Joes and the like.

Thanks,


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Hunt wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>Mat:
>>
>>Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
>>my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
>>tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
>>it's "good."
>>
>>I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
>>so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
>>alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
>>trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
>>taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
>>a matter of patience.
>>
>>Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
>>or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
>>ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>>
>>I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
>> That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
>>reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
>>over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
>>having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
>>few days.
>>
>>I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
>>Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
>>I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
>>Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>>
>>If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
>>what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>>
>>http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>>
>>-Mike
>>

>>http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
> [SNIP]
>
> MikeD,
>
> Looks like the Web site is off to a good start. I like the flow of it. It
> appears that you have access to Costco in Ohio. Since they are a Pacific
> Northwest operation, with most of their stores in CA and AZ, I never know how
> far they reach. Also, each store (at least in CA and AZ) has a "wine buyer,"
> and each has to justify their allocation. Taking that into consideration, I
> have a few wines that fit into your cost point, and are available at Costco
> he
>
> Acacia Pinot Noir (US/CA Central Coast) - good to go when you get it, but
> really benefits, IMO, from about a year in the cellar. Usually around US$19.
> 00.
>
> Glen Carlou Grand Classique, Bordeaux Blend (SA/Paarl) - excellent Bdx blend.
> For <US$13.00, I cannot find a better value wine. I don't know how this one
> will age, as I keep drinking it up as an "everyday quaffer."
>
> Mulderbosch Sauvignon Blanc (SA/Stellenbosch) - really crisp SB, with good
> fruit and acidity. This one shows up on occasion at Costco, and is in the US$
> 13.00 range. Not up to par with most of the better NZ SB's, but it is about ½
> the price.
>
> Anything from Joseph Phelps. I am always amazed when I find these, and for
> less than they cost me through the JP wine club! From the Napa Merlot to the
> Insignia (much more expensive than the wines I see on your site, but well
> worth the $), I always grab six, or so bottles of whatever is available and
> save myself shipping, plus a few $. If you get a chance at the Ovation Chard,
> or the Viognier, grab them at any Costco price.
>
> For the "off-dry" white, but with a full, round body, I find the Caymus (
> Caymus is no longer featured on the lable) Conundrum white blend, at ~US$19.
> Even though it is a bit above the cost level of most of the whites that I saw
> on the site, it is really a fine one. Don't serve this guy too cold, and also
> try it in a larger glass, as the nose borders on fantastic. In the last three
> vintages, they seem to have cut back on both the Viognier, and the Muscat, but
> the aroma is still of "Southern Spring Nights," though slightly muted compared
> to previous examples.
>
> As you have the Ravenswood Sonoma Cab, I'd suggest that you also try their
> Merlot and Zin. Known mostly for their single-vineyard Zins, the other reds
> are quite good, especially at their respective price points.
>
> Beringer Knights Valley (US/CA/Napa) For a US$25 Cab, this one is really nice.
> Again, ready to go (with a bit of aeration and breathing), but holds up to 5
> years in the cool and dark.
>

Hunt:

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll try to pick up a few of them as
soon as I can find them. I'm not sure where the nearest Costco is... we
have Sams Club, ALDIs, Trader Joes around here, so I'll find out where
the nearest Costco is.

BTW-- I exchange emails with the wine editor for our local newspaper
(The Plain Dealer). According to him, Wal-Mart is getting ready to set
up a wine section in all Super Wal-Mart locations. They sent him cases
of wine to review, and he's been telling the readers about them.
They're trying to compete with Trader Joes and the like.

Thanks,


http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information


Hunt wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
>>Mat:
>>
>>Now, remember... I've got about 6-8 months of tasting experience under
>>my belt, so what I think is good may be crap overall because I haven't
>>tasted the range some others have... so bear with me when I say I think
>>it's "good."
>>
>>I am leaning towards liking the off-dry wines. The dry wines I've tried
>>so far--at least some of them--hit you like a hammer as far as tannic or
>>alcohol in the aftertaste (and yes, I'm sure it's partially because I'm
>>trying some of the cheaper bottles.) Everything I've read so far says a
>>taste for the really dry wines is acquired after a while, so maybe it is
>>a matter of patience.
>>
>>Almost all wines here in the states that you find in the local grocery
>>or wine shop are produced for the "drink now" crowd. I'll cellar to
>>ensure a cheap red is at least 2-3 years old.
>>
>>I second the motion on there being a lack of interest in "cheap" wines.
>> That's why I targeted my web site to those types of wines. No one
>>reviews them, rates them, or discusses them too much, and here in the US
>>over 90% of all wine sales are the cheap stuff ($8-18 US)! I'm actually
>>having a blast with the cheaper wines. I get to try something new every
>>few days.
>>
>>I just picked up a bottle of Espiral Vinho Verde for $5.99 yesterday.
>>Heard a guy at the wine shop raving about it and figured "what the hell,
>>I'll try it." I'll have to research to find out how good a wine a
>>Vinho Verde is, but that's part of the fun.
>>
>>If you are interested in seeing whats in my cellar (to get an idea of
>>what I'm grabbing off the shelves), take a look he
>>
>>http://www.webwinerack.com/cellar/ce...?rid=B28D44A01
>>
>>-Mike
>>

>>http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information
>
> [SNIP]
>
> MikeD,
>
> Looks like the Web site is off to a good start. I like the flow of it. It
> appears that you have access to Costco in Ohio. Since they are a Pacific
> Northwest operation, with most of their stores in CA and AZ, I never know how
> far they reach. Also, each store (at least in CA and AZ) has a "wine buyer,"
> and each has to justify their allocation. Taking that into consideration, I
> have a few wines that fit into your cost point, and are available at Costco
> he
>
> Acacia Pinot Noir (US/CA Central Coast) - good to go when you get it, but
> really benefits, IMO, from about a year in the cellar. Usually around US$19.
> 00.
>
> Glen Carlou Grand Classique, Bordeaux Blend (SA/Paarl) - excellent Bdx blend.
> For <US$13.00, I cannot find a better value wine. I don't know how this one
> will age, as I keep drinking it up as an "everyday quaffer."
>
> Mulderbosch Sauvignon Blanc (SA/Stellenbosch) - really crisp SB, with good
> fruit and acidity. This one shows up on occasion at Costco, and is in the US$
> 13.00 range. Not up to par with most of the better NZ SB's, but it is about ½
> the price.
>
> Anything from Joseph Phelps. I am always amazed when I find these, and for
> less than they cost me through the JP wine club! From the Napa Merlot to the
> Insignia (much more expensive than the wines I see on your site, but well
> worth the $), I always grab six, or so bottles of whatever is available and
> save myself shipping, plus a few $. If you get a chance at the Ovation Chard,
> or the Viognier, grab them at any Costco price.
>
> For the "off-dry" white, but with a full, round body, I find the Caymus (
> Caymus is no longer featured on the lable) Conundrum white blend, at ~US$19.
> Even though it is a bit above the cost level of most of the whites that I saw
> on the site, it is really a fine one. Don't serve this guy too cold, and also
> try it in a larger glass, as the nose borders on fantastic. In the last three
> vintages, they seem to have cut back on both the Viognier, and the Muscat, but
> the aroma is still of "Southern Spring Nights," though slightly muted compared
> to previous examples.
>
> As you have the Ravenswood Sonoma Cab, I'd suggest that you also try their
> Merlot and Zin. Known mostly for their single-vineyard Zins, the other reds
> are quite good, especially at their respective price points.
>
> Beringer Knights Valley (US/CA/Napa) For a US$25 Cab, this one is really nice.
> Again, ready to go (with a bit of aeration and breathing), but holds up to 5
> years in the cool and dark.
>

In article >,
says...
>
>Hunt:
>
>Thanks for the recommendations. I'll try to pick up a few of them as
>soon as I can find them. I'm not sure where the nearest Costco is... we
>have Sams Club, ALDIs, Trader Joes around here, so I'll find out where
>the nearest Costco is.
>
>BTW-- I exchange emails with the wine editor for our local newspaper
>(The Plain Dealer). According to him, Wal-Mart is getting ready to set
>up a wine section in all Super Wal-Mart locations. They sent him cases
>of wine to review, and he's been telling the readers about them.
>They're trying to compete with Trader Joes and the like.
>
>Thanks,
>

>http://www.webwinerack.com - Wine, Wine Reviews, and Wine Information

Oops, I must have seen Sam's Club and read Costco. I WAS surprised that Costco
was that far East. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. The recommendations on
the wines still stand, however.

Good luck with the site,
Hunt

PS IIRC it was in the Plain Dealer (via their restaurant critic), that I had a
review of a restaurant in Indaianapolis. She was doing a piece on Cleveland,
Indy, and Cincy. All I had was a piece on one Indy higher-end place.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:11:38 +1000, Mat <Ask@me> said:

] MikeD wrote:
]
[]

Whoops, responded to the wrong message. Never mind.

Mike, check out Roland Marandino's site www.tablewine.com dedicated to
just the sort of wines you're talking about. Roland is/was a long time contributor
here although I haven't seen him post in a while. Looks like there's a forum on his
site now, too.

Just a usenet note: it is a good idea to change the subject, otherwise many
will miss your posts, having killed the thread. Visavis trolls, I feel that Mat's
policy has been proved best over time, and I've used usenet since the 80s.
However I don't want to take up bandwidth discussing it, and wouldn't have
mentioned it at all unless I already had something else to say in the thread.

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:11:38 +1000, Mat <Ask@me> said:

] MikeD wrote:
]
[]

Whoops, responded to the wrong message. Never mind.

Mike, check out Roland Marandino's site www.tablewine.com dedicated to
just the sort of wines you're talking about. Roland is/was a long time contributor
here although I haven't seen him post in a while. Looks like there's a forum on his
site now, too.

Just a usenet note: it is a good idea to change the subject, otherwise many
will miss your posts, having killed the thread. Visavis trolls, I feel that Mat's
policy has been proved best over time, and I've used usenet since the 80s.
However I don't want to take up bandwidth discussing it, and wouldn't have
mentioned it at all unless I already had something else to say in the thread.

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:11:38 +1000, Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

<snip>
>I do however note that in many cases most of my tightarse Tuesday
>Australian wine posts get passed over. So if you want to know anything
>or whatever just ask and I will tell. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty
>low rent in comparison to a lot of posters in here, so I'm more than
>happy to help with stuff on the lower end of the Australian market. 68
>Grange is not really something I drink everyday.
>
>There is a bit of a lack of posters around the bracket you are talking
>about. I guess the longer you are around the more expensive your taste gets.
>
>As for well seasoned wine enthusiast, you would need to shove a kilo of
>sage, basil, sea salt, thyme, lemon zest etc etc in a given oriface for
>me to be well seasoned. I like posts about stuff I can go down the shop
>and buy without having to take out a personal loan.
>
>
>Mat.

Mat,

Have you tried the Five Judges range of wines. At $7.99 a bottle it
is a ripper. The shiraz is excellent value, merlot almost as goos,
and their Pinot Chard sparkles has a lot of my lady customers in
raptures. They also have a Chard, that is also excellent qpr.

You won't find it in the biig boys shops (labelled for my
independent buying group), and I prefer to stock it over the low end
Lindemans et al Big 4 quaffers, because imho it poops all over them in
QPR.

Hooroo....

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:11:38 +1000, Mat <Ask@me> wrote:

<snip>
>I do however note that in many cases most of my tightarse Tuesday
>Australian wine posts get passed over. So if you want to know anything
>or whatever just ask and I will tell. What I'm saying is that I'm pretty
>low rent in comparison to a lot of posters in here, so I'm more than
>happy to help with stuff on the lower end of the Australian market. 68
>Grange is not really something I drink everyday.
>
>There is a bit of a lack of posters around the bracket you are talking
>about. I guess the longer you are around the more expensive your taste gets.
>
>As for well seasoned wine enthusiast, you would need to shove a kilo of
>sage, basil, sea salt, thyme, lemon zest etc etc in a given oriface for
>me to be well seasoned. I like posts about stuff I can go down the shop
>and buy without having to take out a personal loan.
>
>
>Mat.

Mat,

Have you tried the Five Judges range of wines. At $7.99 a bottle it
is a ripper. The shiraz is excellent value, merlot almost as goos,
and their Pinot Chard sparkles has a lot of my lady customers in
raptures. They also have a Chard, that is also excellent qpr.

You won't find it in the biig boys shops (labelled for my
independent buying group), and I prefer to stock it over the low end
Lindemans et al Big 4 quaffers, because imho it poops all over them in
QPR.

Hooroo....

Swooper wrote:
>
> Mat,
>
> Have you tried the Five Judges range of wines. At $7.99 a bottle it
> is a ripper. The shiraz is excellent value, merlot almost as goos,
> and their Pinot Chard sparkles has a lot of my lady customers in
> raptures. They also have a Chard, that is also excellent qpr.
>
> You won't find it in the biig boys shops (labelled for my
> independent buying group), and I prefer to stock it over the low end
> Lindemans et al Big 4 quaffers, because imho it poops all over them in
> QPR.
>
> Hooroo....

Hello Swooper,

No I can't say I've even heard of it. It sounds fabulous.

I've never been a big fan of the Lindeman's entry label.

Any idea where I can get this around the Frankston-ish area?

Thanks for the recommendation. I always like a good heads up.


Mat.

Swooper wrote:
>
> Mat,
>
> Have you tried the Five Judges range of wines. At $7.99 a bottle it
> is a ripper. The shiraz is excellent value, merlot almost as goos,
> and their Pinot Chard sparkles has a lot of my lady customers in
> raptures. They also have a Chard, that is also excellent qpr.
>
> You won't find it in the biig boys shops (labelled for my
> independent buying group), and I prefer to stock it over the low end
> Lindemans et al Big 4 quaffers, because imho it poops all over them in
> QPR.
>
> Hooroo....

Hello Swooper,

No I can't say I've even heard of it. It sounds fabulous.

I've never been a big fan of the Lindeman's entry label.

Any idea where I can get this around the Frankston-ish area?

Thanks for the recommendation. I always like a good heads up.


Mat.

Mat wrote:

> Swooper wrote:
>
>>
>> Mat,
>>
>> Have you tried the Five Judges range of wines. At $7.99 a bottle it
>> is a ripper. The shiraz is excellent value, merlot almost as goos,
>> and their Pinot Chard sparkles has a lot of my lady customers in
>> raptures. They also have a Chard, that is also excellent qpr.
>> You won't find it in the biig boys shops (labelled for my
>> independent buying group), and I prefer to stock it over the low end
>> Lindemans et al Big 4 quaffers, because imho it poops all over them in
>> QPR.
>>
>> Hooroo....
>
>
> Hello Swooper,
>
> No I can't say I've even heard of it. It sounds fabulous.
>
> I've never been a big fan of the Lindeman's entry label.
>
> Any idea where I can get this around the Frankston-ish area?
>
> Thanks for the recommendation. I always like a good heads up.
>
>
> Mat.
>