Hello, I bought this house a while ago without a cellar. In my
previous house I had built up a moderate collection of about 100-150
wines for laying down as well as about 100-150 everyday wines for
drinking within a year or so. When I knew I would be moving soon, I
stopped buying any new bottles. This has brought my stock down to
about 70odd laying down wines and only two dozen everydayers.

My better wine as it were consists of some Australien bottles that
benefit from a couple of years or so (e.g. Pirammimma Petit Verdot
2001 or some Margaret River Cab Sauv 1998). I know they are drinkable
but I prefer to keep them for a while longer (maybe a year or two). I
have some Bordeaux, usually lesser Chateaux which will be drinkable
soonish (within five years) as well as a few bottles of Ribera del
Duero that needs another year or two.

But not without any form of storage. Realistically, I will probably
not have the funds (storage issues aside) build up more than about
150odd bottles for laying down. My wines are usually drinkable within
five years of cellaring, so, I would not expect to buy more than say
36 bottles a year for this purpose. Everyday wine I usually stock up
on a booze cruise to France. There I usually buy bulk, 60+ bottles per
trip easily.

Here is what I have considered: converting an outhouse into above
ground cellar. I would require proper insulation (with Kingspan or so,
should be moderately cheap), cover with plasterboard and think about
the door (I expect the door construction to be the major problem) and
then connect some form of cooling machine to it. I looked at FOndis
Winemaster which is I think about 2000k pounds - way too much on top
of the diy building project.

Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).

I mean the thing to do would be to rent a warehouse, convert it and
offer wine storage as a service because other people in my region will
have similar problems. Trouble is I am not looking for a new job ;-)

Right, anybody with a good idea out there?

Fred

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:53:08 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

>Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
>think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
>the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
>cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
>Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
>is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
>for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
>outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).

Providing the ambient temperature does not drop below freezing (in
which case the condensation dripping at the back may freeze), the
worst that can happen with your Liebherr is that the temperature might
drop from that which you have thermostatically set.

When I bought mine just over a year ago there were 2 ranges of model.
One was claimed to work down to lower temps than the other. I bought
a newer, more powerful one, and it maintains 12degC down to 5degC in
my outhouse. The temp doesn't get much lower than that as I have a
space heater that kicks in to prevent freezing.

Just bear in mind that unless you have all Bordeaux bottles you will
get a fewer into th fridge than advertised. I think I could manage
around 165 in my "198 botttle" fridge.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:53:08 GMT, (Fred) wrote:

>Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
>think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
>the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
>cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
>Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
>is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
>for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
>outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).

Providing the ambient temperature does not drop below freezing (in
which case the condensation dripping at the back may freeze), the
worst that can happen with your Liebherr is that the temperature might
drop from that which you have thermostatically set.

When I bought mine just over a year ago there were 2 ranges of model.
One was claimed to work down to lower temps than the other. I bought
a newer, more powerful one, and it maintains 12degC down to 5degC in
my outhouse. The temp doesn't get much lower than that as I have a
space heater that kicks in to prevent freezing.

Just bear in mind that unless you have all Bordeaux bottles you will
get a fewer into th fridge than advertised. I think I could manage
around 165 in my "198 botttle" fridge.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

In message >
(Fred) wrote:

> Hello, I bought this house a while ago without a cellar. In my
> previous house I had built up a moderate collection of about 100-150
> wines for laying down as well as about 100-150 everyday wines for
> drinking within a year or so. When I knew I would be moving soon, I
> stopped buying any new bottles. This has brought my stock down to
> about 70odd laying down wines and only two dozen everydayers.
>
> My better wine as it were consists of some Australien bottles that
> benefit from a couple of years or so (e.g. Pirammimma Petit Verdot
> 2001 or some Margaret River Cab Sauv 1998). I know they are drinkable
> but I prefer to keep them for a while longer (maybe a year or two). I
> have some Bordeaux, usually lesser Chateaux which will be drinkable
> soonish (within five years) as well as a few bottles of Ribera del
> Duero that needs another year or two.
>
> But not without any form of storage. Realistically, I will probably
> not have the funds (storage issues aside) build up more than about
> 150odd bottles for laying down. My wines are usually drinkable within
> five years of cellaring, so, I would not expect to buy more than say
> 36 bottles a year for this purpose. Everyday wine I usually stock up
> on a booze cruise to France. There I usually buy bulk, 60+ bottles per
> trip easily.
>
> Here is what I have considered: converting an outhouse into above
> ground cellar. I would require proper insulation (with Kingspan or so,
> should be moderately cheap), cover with plasterboard and think about
> the door (I expect the door construction to be the major problem) and
> then connect some form of cooling machine to it. I looked at FOndis
> Winemaster which is I think about 2000k pounds - way too much on top
> of the diy building project.
>
> Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
> think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
> the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
> cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
> Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
> is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
> for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
> outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).
>
> I mean the thing to do would be to rent a warehouse, convert it and
> offer wine storage as a service because other people in my region will
> have similar problems. Trouble is I am not looking for a new job ;-)
>
> Right, anybody with a good idea out there?
>
> Fred
>

For the sort of keeping you are talking about I don‘t think you need to go
to the trouble and expense of any refrigeration. I have insulated an
outhouse and keep the wine in clay land drains stacjed on top of each other
between the walls - a max/min thermometer does not show too great variation
and England is not a palce where lack of humidity often provides problems.
I have always taken the view that I would rather spend my money on wine than
storage and have not found that there has been a real problem from storage
conditions. It might be different if you were aiming to keep a lot of
first growths for a very long time — then a wine fridge is a good idea but
there are some quite cheap ones available in France and if you have a big
estate car it might then be worth looking for one when you went on a booze cruise
so you could keep those better bottles in that.

I think what I am really saying is that I believe that you can be too
precious about storage facilities — what matters most is even temperatures,
without vast variation and with any variation being only slow. If it‘s a
bit warm you will speed maturation and so alter it a little but I have
tasted bottles kept by me and also kept by certain growers in their own
cellars without any movement over sea or land and found little or no
difference at the same or very similar ages.


HTH

Timothy Hartley

In message >
(Fred) wrote:

> Hello, I bought this house a while ago without a cellar. In my
> previous house I had built up a moderate collection of about 100-150
> wines for laying down as well as about 100-150 everyday wines for
> drinking within a year or so. When I knew I would be moving soon, I
> stopped buying any new bottles. This has brought my stock down to
> about 70odd laying down wines and only two dozen everydayers.
>
> My better wine as it were consists of some Australien bottles that
> benefit from a couple of years or so (e.g. Pirammimma Petit Verdot
> 2001 or some Margaret River Cab Sauv 1998). I know they are drinkable
> but I prefer to keep them for a while longer (maybe a year or two). I
> have some Bordeaux, usually lesser Chateaux which will be drinkable
> soonish (within five years) as well as a few bottles of Ribera del
> Duero that needs another year or two.
>
> But not without any form of storage. Realistically, I will probably
> not have the funds (storage issues aside) build up more than about
> 150odd bottles for laying down. My wines are usually drinkable within
> five years of cellaring, so, I would not expect to buy more than say
> 36 bottles a year for this purpose. Everyday wine I usually stock up
> on a booze cruise to France. There I usually buy bulk, 60+ bottles per
> trip easily.
>
> Here is what I have considered: converting an outhouse into above
> ground cellar. I would require proper insulation (with Kingspan or so,
> should be moderately cheap), cover with plasterboard and think about
> the door (I expect the door construction to be the major problem) and
> then connect some form of cooling machine to it. I looked at FOndis
> Winemaster which is I think about 2000k pounds - way too much on top
> of the diy building project.
>
> Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
> think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
> the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
> cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
> Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
> is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
> for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
> outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).
>
> I mean the thing to do would be to rent a warehouse, convert it and
> offer wine storage as a service because other people in my region will
> have similar problems. Trouble is I am not looking for a new job ;-)
>
> Right, anybody with a good idea out there?
>
> Fred
>

For the sort of keeping you are talking about I don‘t think you need to go
to the trouble and expense of any refrigeration. I have insulated an
outhouse and keep the wine in clay land drains stacjed on top of each other
between the walls - a max/min thermometer does not show too great variation
and England is not a palce where lack of humidity often provides problems.
I have always taken the view that I would rather spend my money on wine than
storage and have not found that there has been a real problem from storage
conditions. It might be different if you were aiming to keep a lot of
first growths for a very long time — then a wine fridge is a good idea but
there are some quite cheap ones available in France and if you have a big
estate car it might then be worth looking for one when you went on a booze cruise
so you could keep those better bottles in that.

I think what I am really saying is that I believe that you can be too
precious about storage facilities — what matters most is even temperatures,
without vast variation and with any variation being only slow. If it‘s a
bit warm you will speed maturation and so alter it a little but I have
tasted bottles kept by me and also kept by certain growers in their own
cellars without any movement over sea or land and found little or no
difference at the same or very similar ages.


HTH

Timothy Hartley

In message >
(Fred) wrote:

> Hello, I bought this house a while ago without a cellar. In my
> previous house I had built up a moderate collection of about 100-150
> wines for laying down as well as about 100-150 everyday wines for
> drinking within a year or so. When I knew I would be moving soon, I
> stopped buying any new bottles. This has brought my stock down to
> about 70odd laying down wines and only two dozen everydayers.
>
> My better wine as it were consists of some Australien bottles that
> benefit from a couple of years or so (e.g. Pirammimma Petit Verdot
> 2001 or some Margaret River Cab Sauv 1998). I know they are drinkable
> but I prefer to keep them for a while longer (maybe a year or two). I
> have some Bordeaux, usually lesser Chateaux which will be drinkable
> soonish (within five years) as well as a few bottles of Ribera del
> Duero that needs another year or two.
>
> But not without any form of storage. Realistically, I will probably
> not have the funds (storage issues aside) build up more than about
> 150odd bottles for laying down. My wines are usually drinkable within
> five years of cellaring, so, I would not expect to buy more than say
> 36 bottles a year for this purpose. Everyday wine I usually stock up
> on a booze cruise to France. There I usually buy bulk, 60+ bottles per
> trip easily.
>
> Here is what I have considered: converting an outhouse into above
> ground cellar. I would require proper insulation (with Kingspan or so,
> should be moderately cheap), cover with plasterboard and think about
> the door (I expect the door construction to be the major problem) and
> then connect some form of cooling machine to it. I looked at FOndis
> Winemaster which is I think about 2000k pounds - way too much on top
> of the diy building project.
>
> Buying a wine fridge. I am looking at one of the Liebherrs for 169 I
> think bottles. They come for round about 900 quid. That would be for
> the laying down wine, and then convert parts of the understairs
> cupboard to acommodate the everyday wine. Problem here is that the
> Liebherr would again have to go into the outhouse as the understairs
> is not big enough and has no power even nearby. But they aren't built
> for moderately low temperatures (I have measured temps in the
> outbuilding as going as low as 5 deg celsius).
>
> I mean the thing to do would be to rent a warehouse, convert it and
> offer wine storage as a service because other people in my region will
> have similar problems. Trouble is I am not looking for a new job ;-)
>
> Right, anybody with a good idea out there?
>
> Fred
>

For the sort of keeping you are talking about I don‘t think you need to go
to the trouble and expense of any refrigeration. I have insulated an
outhouse and keep the wine in clay land drains stacjed on top of each other
between the walls - a max/min thermometer does not show too great variation
and England is not a palce where lack of humidity often provides problems.
I have always taken the view that I would rather spend my money on wine than
storage and have not found that there has been a real problem from storage
conditions. It might be different if you were aiming to keep a lot of
first growths for a very long time — then a wine fridge is a good idea but
there are some quite cheap ones available in France and if you have a big
estate car it might then be worth looking for one when you went on a booze cruise
so you could keep those better bottles in that.

I think what I am really saying is that I believe that you can be too
precious about storage facilities — what matters most is even temperatures,
without vast variation and with any variation being only slow. If it‘s a
bit warm you will speed maturation and so alter it a little but I have
tasted bottles kept by me and also kept by certain growers in their own
cellars without any movement over sea or land and found little or no
difference at the same or very similar ages.


HTH

Timothy Hartley