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Old 18-12-2009, 10:29 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Southern Rhone

I'm not sure what this taste is, but DH doesn't taste it. I recall it once
or twice previously in the last few years. This time I took note of the
winemaker and see that it is wine from a reputable winemarker, so I will not
mention it, as it smells like barnyard dung. I'm wondering if it is the
grenache, although I've not noticed it in other grenache/syrah.

It is just a hint in the taste. You can't smell it.

Yes, I know barnyard dung -- born a hillbilly.
Dee Dee








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Old 18-12-2009, 11:14 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm not sure what this taste is, but DH doesn't taste it. I recall it
once or twice previously in the last few years. This time I took note of
the winemaker and see that it is wine from a reputable winemarker, so I
will not mention it, as it smells like barnyard dung. I'm wondering if it
is the grenache, although I've not noticed it in other grenache/syrah.

It is just a hint in the taste. You can't smell it.

Yes, I know barnyard dung -- born a hillbilly.


Bad bottle, probaly brettanomyces infection. Grenache does not smell of
dung :-)


--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail




Thanks, Mike. I googled brett -- I'm impressed with your knowledge.
Just another one of those questions that I'm not going to have to postpone
until I get to the Pearly Gates :-))

Dee Dee


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Old 19-12-2009, 02:40 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Dec 18, 6:14*pm, "Dee Dovey" wrote:
"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message

...





Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm not sure what this taste is, but DH doesn't taste it. *I recall it
once or twice previously in the last few years. *This time I took note of
the winemaker and see that it is wine from a reputable winemarker, so I
will not mention it, as it smells like barnyard dung. I'm wondering if it
is the grenache, although I've not noticed it in other grenache/syrah.


It is just a hint in the taste. *You can't smell it.


Yes, I know barnyard dung -- born a hillbilly.


Bad bottle, probaly brettanomyces infection. Grenache does not smell of
dung :-)


--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email linkhttp://www.tommasi.org/mymail


Thanks, Mike. *I googled brett -- I'm impressed with your knowledge.
Just another one of those questions that I'm not going to have to postpone
until I get to the Pearly Gates :-))

Dee Dee


I'm sure Mike is right about the brett, barnyard/dung is a classic
descriptor for brettanomyces. The only questionable part of his
response is the "bad bottle"- it could be representative, there are
plenty of producers who typically show some brett.

I don't know of any subject that causes more controversy than brett:

Brett comes in multiple strains

Brett can "bloom" in bottles that see warmer storage, or have come
from one bottle, so there's no definitive way to say XX wine does or
doesn't have brett.

People vary a lot in their sensitivity to brett (and various strains
of the same),.

People vary a lot in whether they find objectionable (and many find
one strain ok and another objectionable)

So not surprising that you found it and DH didn't
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Old 20-12-2009, 02:38 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Southern Rhone

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:40:31 -0800 (PST), DaleW
wrote:


I'm sure Mike is right about the brett, barnyard/dung is a classic
descriptor for brettanomyces. The only questionable part of his
response is the "bad bottle"- it could be representative, there are
plenty of producers who typically show some brett.

I don't know of any subject that causes more controversy than brett:

Brett comes in multiple strains

Brett can "bloom" in bottles that see warmer storage, or have come
from one bottle, so there's no definitive way to say XX wine does or
doesn't have brett.

People vary a lot in their sensitivity to brett (and various strains
of the same),.

People vary a lot in whether they find objectionable (and many find
one strain ok and another objectionable)

So not surprising that you found it and DH didn't


I'm one who can't stand it. Too many bottles are contaminated these
days, some worse than others. Most of them seem to be Spanish and
French. The minute I sense brett, the bottle goes back or gets
dumped.

I recent years I've had problems with wines from Pesquera (1996) and
Condado de Haz (2001). When I returned the wines, the local rep tried
to blow me off with some snooty b.s. about not appreciating the wines'
"rustic style." Fact is there was nothing "rustic" about it -- the
wine was contaminated. I have Condados in my cellar from other
(earlier) vintages that are just fine.

Some of you may recall a similar incident I had several years ago with
Costco over a stanked-out Kirkland-label Bordeaux. I received a
similarly arrogant "you don't know jack" attitude from their wine
queen at the time, but I refused to back down. A few days later all
that wine was pulled from their shelves.

Brett -- a good name for a Maverick brother. Not so good as a wine
"nuance."

JJ
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Old 20-12-2009, 10:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Dec 20, 9:38*am, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:40:31 -0800 (PST), DaleW
wrote:





I'm sure Mike is right about the brett, barnyard/dung is a classic
descriptor for *brettanomyces. The only questionable part of his
response is the "bad bottle"- it could be representative, there are
plenty of producers who typically show some brett.


I don't know of any subject that causes more controversy than brett:


Brett comes in multiple strains


Brett can "bloom" in bottles that see warmer storage, or have come
from one bottle, so there's no definitive way to say XX wine does or
doesn't have brett.


People vary a lot in their sensitivity to brett (and various strains
of the same),.


People vary a lot in whether they find objectionable (and many find
one strain ok and another objectionable)


So not surprising that you found it and DH didn't


I'm one who can't stand it. Too many bottles are contaminated these
days, some worse than others. Most of them seem to be Spanish and
French. The minute I sense brett, *the bottle goes back or *gets
dumped.

I recent years I've had problems with wines from Pesquera (1996) and
Condado de Haz (2001). When I returned the wines, the local rep tried
to blow me off with some snooty b.s. about not appreciating the wines'
"rustic style." Fact is there was nothing "rustic" about it -- the
wine was contaminated. I have Condados in my cellar from other
(earlier) vintages that are just fine.

Some of you may recall a similar incident I had several years ago with
Costco over a stanked-out Kirkland-label Bordeaux. I received a
similarly arrogant "you don't know jack" attitude from their wine
queen at the time, but I refused to back down. A few days later all
that wine was pulled from their shelves.

Brett -- a good name for a Maverick brother. Not so good as a wine
"nuance."

JJ


I have to say that lots of my all time favorite wines have shown a
touch of brett. The "Cordier funk" of 82 & 86 Gruaud, 86 Meyney, good
bottles of 90 Montrose or 89 Beaucastel.... Of course not every bottle
with brett appeals, there are limits for me both to how much before it
becomes problematic, and different strains bother me more than others.


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Old 21-12-2009, 02:36 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Southern Rhone


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:40:31 -0800 (PST), DaleW
wrote:

Some of you may recall a similar incident I had several years ago with
Costco over a stanked-out Kirkland-label Bordeaux. I received a
similarly arrogant "you don't know jack" attitude from their wine
queen at the time, but I refused to back down. A few days later all
that wine was pulled from their shelves.



JJ



What is worse when buying Costco is to buy a bottle one likes, and then
decide to buy, say, 6 more bottles. Then, the 1st of the "6 more bottles"
stink, and then you're faced with opening each one with trepidation.

The scenario that is most likely to happen in this household is that if it
is a mediocre, but tolerable, wine to begin with, one starts to doubting
one's own judgment of buying 6 bottles (of anything!).

Here at our Costco, I've taken corked bottles back. I leave the un-drunk
wine in the bottle to show that I've not finished it off.
As for "you don't know jack" attitude, here in Winchester, VA, I've never
encountered any attitude at all for any purchases. But I have encountered
that attitude at another big warehouse store, of which I am no longer a
member, but not totally for that reason.

Dee Dee



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Old 21-12-2009, 04:36 AM
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One man's garbage is another man's brett!
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Old 24-12-2009, 05:07 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Southern Rhone

Mike Tommasi wrote:
Dee Dovey wrote:
I'm not sure what this taste is, but DH doesn't taste it. I recall it
once or twice previously in the last few years. This time I took note
of the winemaker and see that it is wine from a reputable winemarker,
so I will not mention it, as it smells like barnyard dung. I'm
wondering if it is the grenache, although I've not noticed it in other
grenache/syrah.

It is just a hint in the taste. You can't smell it.

Yes, I know barnyard dung -- born a hillbilly.


Bad bottle, probaly brettanomyces infection. Grenache does not smell of
dung :-)


No, but some people identify Mouverdre as the "culprit" in Beaucastel.

Or it could be brett, as you say, Mike.

If it is just a hint, many wine lovers would say it is a good thing,
though opinions differ.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
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Old 25-12-2009, 05:02 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Southern Rhone

On 12/25/2009 05:37 PM, Mike Tommasi wrote:
Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 09:47:21 +0100, Mike Tommasi
wrote:

Yes it is a common notion that, just because for years Bandol wines
were made in dirty barrels far older than the vines, the odor of
barnyard and sweat got an upgrade from "defect" to "typical feature"
not just of Bandol wines but even of the grape variety Mourvèdre
itself...

Since then, things have thankfully changed and the best Bandol wines
have no hint of brett whatsoever.

By the same reasoning, I would impute the funny tastes to Beaucastel
barrels, not to the poor grape that did nothing to deserve its funky
reputation.


So, that explains it! I tasted three different Bandols within about
ten days over ten years ago and they were the foulest sweaty horse and
dung mouthful I could imagine. I've never been willing to forgive and
forget and find that the absence of Bandol in my life is not
significant.


Even aside from the old brett problem, there is still the problem that
some of the famous names here live on their name alone. Pradeaux still
is reputed to be the best by many, I do not understand why, it is one of
the few wines that I consistently strongly dislike, I often use the
french adjective "infecte" for it. OTOH Tempier, Terrebrune, Lafran
Veyrolle are great.


Had a nice tasting of Ste Anne at the Salon Caves Particulieres (or
whatever they call it now) in Paris early December. The wines were all
clean but less interesting to me than I recalled. Possibly because of
my apparatus.

I do find there is a "Mourvedre funk" outside of brett, which I quite
like, it seems to impart depth on the palate to me. Of course I'm not
against a touch of brett either, if not overdone. Brett isn't unique to
the southern Rhone of course, I've had many a Loire wine that was, uh,
infecte because of it.

-E


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