In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>The yellow label is the base cuvee I believe. You may be smelling the
>lees (yeast). I have found these kinds of Champagne sometimes have a
>peculiar acidity that makes them taste metallic. An older bottle might
>develop oxidation (in many Champagnes, this is no defect, in fact it
>can give the wine incredibly complex bouquet (I am thinking of a 90
>Jacques Beaufort, deep golden colour, very evolved, wonderful).
>
>SInce I discovered that there are dozens of small winemakers producing
>Champagne, I no longer buy Veuve Cliquot, and evne higher end Krug and
>Bollinger, though spectacular, does not appeal to me as much as these
>non-industrial wines, they seem to have ... soul?


I don't know if you can call Krug or Salon "industrial wines" but what do
you think about Agrapart or Dampierre?


Dimitri

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>Industrial is not synonymous with bad. I was referring to the size of
>the producer, and the fact that necessarily it must employ industrial
>techniques to p[roduce its wine, now matter how good it is... as
>opposed to small producers.


I am not sure this is necessarily true, though. How many cases of "Clos du
Mesnil" does Krug actually produce? I am sure it can't be many if overall
production for the entire house is just 40,000 cases.


>Agrapart, top chard in the same Avize terroir as Selosse and De
>Sousa.
>
>Dampierre, never tasted, how is it?


It is a more toasty, nutty champagne - especially compared to the Agrapart.
I like it a great deal. The cuvee prestige is the Brut Family Reserve (95
points WS).


Dimitri

"D. Gerasimatos" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't know if you can call Krug or Salon "industrial wines" but what do
> you think about Agrapart or Dampierre?

I myself have enjoyed each greatly, they seem to be marketed together, or
perhaps occupy a similar niche as finely crafted smaller, but hardly
obscure, labels.

The most interesting premium Champagne I had recently was the 1996
Chartogne-Taillet "Fiacre," a very subtle and satisfying Tête-de-Cuvée,
pricey but worth every Grosschen, introduced to me by a gracious wine
merchant at a December dinner in a restaurant I am very fond of.

Lastly at risk of repetition, here is what I suggested on Champagnes here on
this newsgroup, or rather its grandparent group net.wines, 14-Jan-84. I
have copied it here so you don't have to look it up. (This is one of many
wine postings that Steve Pope and I used to "seed" the group and keep wine
active on the Net.) The question at the end still applies.

--------
Newsgroups: net.wines
Subject: Good Champagne values? - (nf)
Message-ID: >
Date: Tue, 10-Jan-84

This newsgroup has been inactive for a few weeks. Are there no wine
enthusiasts on the net? I know there's at least one.

At the risk of talking to myself, I'll take the initiative by broaching the
subject of Champagnes. Recently the wine press has been abuzz with
mentions of good values in French sparkling wines. Little-known premium
Champagnes, on a par with the famous houses, can be found for $12-15; some
of them have only recently become available in the US.

Here on the west coast, Bonnaire recently became available. The non-vintage
blanc de blancs brut is a striking wine, and a good value at about $15 a
bottle. It has a creamy-toasty quality that reminds me of Roederer, and
exquisite balance. Classy stuff, outclassing other sparkling wines I've
experienced in the price range.

I am eager to learn about other lesser-known Champagnes of good value. Any
suggestions?

(cherie) wrote:

> Sometimes when I have a glass of one of my favorite Champagnes,
> Veuve Cliquot (yellow label), it's heavenly to me. Other times,
> it just doesn't taste right...I don't know, maybe even slightly
> skunky. I thought this was supposed to be a fairly consistent
> Champage.

In fact it is fairly consistent, but then there is one
imponderability with champagne: It's the wine most vulnerable to
bad storage conditions. A few weeks of warm storage or a few days
in daylight can heavily impair its flavours. If you drink your
favourite champagne at dieeferebnt places, this most likely is the
reason.

M.

Michael Pronay > wrote in message >...
> (cherie) wrote:
>
> > Sometimes when I have a glass of one of my favorite Champagnes,
> > Veuve Cliquot (yellow label), it's heavenly to me. Other times,
> > it just doesn't taste right...I don't know, maybe even slightly
> > skunky. I thought this was supposed to be a fairly consistent
> > Champage.
>
> In fact it is fairly consistent, but then there is one
> imponderability with champagne: It's the wine most vulnerable to
> bad storage conditions. A few weeks of warm storage or a few days
> in daylight can heavily impair its flavours. If you drink your
> favourite champagne at dieeferebnt places, this most likely is the
> reason.
>
> M.

I do drink Veuve at many different places. Maybe it is a storage
thing, then. I don't experience that variance with the Louis Roederer
Brut, although I only have a couple of places where I drink that. By
the way, I noticed a posting from another Cherie today regarding a
Piedmont hosting. Since there are apparantly two Cherie's posting
this week, I will begin signing with my full name. (I'm the American
beginner Cherie who will be visiting Southern France this summer...)

-Cherie Morganroth

"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> (cherie) wrote:
>
> > Sometimes when I have a glass of one of my favorite Champagnes,
> > Veuve Cliquot (yellow label), it's heavenly to me. Other times,
> > it just doesn't taste right...I don't know, maybe even slightly
> > skunky. I thought this was supposed to be a fairly consistent
> > Champage.
>
> In fact it is fairly consistent, but then there is one
> imponderability with champagne: It's the wine most vulnerable to
> bad storage conditions. A few weeks of warm storage or a few days
> in daylight can heavily impair its flavours. If you drink your
> favourite champagne at dieeferebnt places, this most likely is the
> reason.
>
> M.

Perhaps what you were eating at the time might also have something to do
with it. Spicy foods, for instance, can transform a favorite and familiar
flavor to that, maybe, of over-ripe roadkill. N'est pas? jl