Greetings from Auckland, New Zealand.

I have taken the very unusual action (for me) of writing directly to a
fellow contributor to alt.food.wine.

I have contributed to this newsgroup since 1997 and have seen many people
come and go - there are also quite a few "originals" who have been around a
lot longer than I.

I would respectfully like to make a couple of points.

alt.food.wine is a very active group, set up for the friendly discussion re
matters of wine appreciation, and as has been often noted, it is
international in both it's scope and contributorship.

Whereas, obviously the majority of contributors hail from the US,
significant numbers come from Britain, France, Austria, Netherlands,
Scandinavia, Spain, Australia, New Zealand and many other places.

Of course, for many contributors, English is not a first language -
therefore there exists, by necessity, an element of tolerance.

On the other hand, this means that no matter which geographic area may be
under discussion, there will be someone with encyclopedic knowledge of the
wines of that area.

Further, in alt.food.wine there is a wealth of international tasting
experience - some of it from people involved in the hospitality industry in
various capacities (chefs, wine buyers, journalists, sommeliers; retail and
trade representatives etc) - as well as many extremely knowledgeable
non-professionals.

I count myself somewhat in both groups; I was (in a previous life) the
marketing manager for a small winery in New Zealand (I am conversant with
many of the intricacies of international wine marketing having spent many
years in both Australia and the UK - but have travelled extensively
pursuing my personal passion for all things vinous (whilst I live in New
Zealand, but have visited Australia, South Africa, France, Spain, Germany,
Italy, South America as well as the US over a period of 25 years).

So, I know a little a about wine - but compared with some of the others
within a.f.w. (some of whom I have hosted as they travelled downunder and
toured NZ vineyards with me) - I am constantly in awe of the vast
reservoir of experience and knowledge others have accumulated and chose to
share.

Usenet is an amazing phenomenon - but remember Carl, virtually everything is
archived - it is nigh on impossible to escape ones musings once
"published"

Thus, before I started this correspondence, I took liberty of checking out
your posting history by doing an Advanced Search for E. Carl Speros - and
this is what I came up with.

You are around 70 years old; live in Lancaster County, Pa., you consider
yourself an atheist; you made your first posting on Usenet (via webtv) on 31
December 2001 - and for the first twelve months of so, restricted your
postings to the subject of the US civil war on the (moderated group)
soc.history.war.us-civil-war.

You have further interests in bass fishing and boxing (remember, I am in
Auckland, New Zealand - and have ascertained this in a few minutes of
"research")

In fact, on the 11 July this year, on soc.history.war.us-civil-war you
posted thus "Bravo, Mike Anyone with an agenda or here for purposes of
proselytizing shouldn't be made welcome on a friendly discussion NG"

Carl, I compare this statement with some of those you have made onto a ng,
about which I am passionate.

You regularly write of "wine snobs" - you may know some people you
describe thus, but your barbs are nonetheless insulting.

You have made some simply erroneous statements, which when respectfully
corrected by a knowledgeable national (do you recall writing about Muscadet
from the Rhone Valley?) you arrogantly retorted a single word "Wrong!"

In of your very first postings to a.f.w. on 31 Mar 03, you expounded that
"healthful esters & aldehydes (chemical compounds) help lower LDL" yet when
an esteemed contributor (a Chemistry Professor from Purdue University no
less) respectfully asked you to elucidate, you simply ignored him.

If you are going to publish contentious statements, have the fortitude to
defend your position, or retreat gracefully.

More recently, you took issue with a longtime contributor, saying "I could
buy & sell you in wine kowledge" (your spelling mistake, not mine!) - and
this to a man with a 3,000+ bottle wine cellar, and who has posted over
1,000 detailed tasting notes on some of the world greatest wines in this
forum in the past seven years.

Bill Spohn lives in Vancouver, Canada, geographically, a lot to the State of
Washington than Pennsylvania. is !!! - I have never met the man, but, his
contribution to my wine education has been immense - his is an opinion to be
respected.

If you are going to disagree with a statement or opinion of any
ontributor - which certainly is your right, then argue the issue;
demonstrate your knowledge and experience with specifics, rather than
vilification.

There is one MAJOR issue which is getting up many peoples noses - and that
is the Signature which your affix to your postings.

Convention has it that in the alt. hierarchy, signature lines should be
limited to three or four lines.

The charter of s.h.w. us-civil-war asks that signatures be restricted to six
lines.

Like many others, I pay for my internet usage, not by time spent on the net,
but by the volume downloaded.

Your insistence on affixing a signature line half the size of "War and
Peace" costs me (and many others) money - and all for something which may
have some relevance to those with an interest in the Civil War, but no
relevance whatsoever to a wine enthusiast in Mbabane, Swaziland,
Wooloomooloo, Australia or any other place in the wine drinking world.

Whereas, alt.food.wine is not moderated, there are published standards,
which appear at http://www.virtual-ink.com.au/afw-faq/

May I respectfully suggest you take a quick perusal, at your convenience.

In conclusion, Carl, I like 99% of others who regularly tune into a.f.w. do
so simply for education and enjoyment, and to enjoy sharing our knowledge
and passion with like minded people from around the globe.

You have a choice Carl.

You can take part in a knowledgeable and friendly manner, respectful of
those with greater knowledge than you, or you can arrogantly continue on the
know-it-all manner you have demonstrated to date.

I truly hope you chose the former path - elsewise I, (and many others)
will simply killfile and/or ignore you.

I do not much believe in "constructive criticism" - really, it is just
criticism, isn't it?

Which is why criticism (and particularly from a total stranger) it is always
hard to accept.

However, by posting within the open forum which is usenet, you open yourself
to criticism.

I do hope that you accept this in the respectful way it is intended.

Seasons Greetings,

Alexander Andrew St.Helier-Bourke
a.k.a. Lord St.Helier
Auckland, New Zealand.


"It is often better to remain silent, and have people think that you may be
a fool;
Than to speak up - and remove all doubt."

"st.helier" > wrote:

> [an open letter]

Very well-said, thank you.

M.

Wow, I am beyond shock. This is the 2nd amazing post I've read in the
NewsGroups this month. Just when I had begun to lose faith that they were
only spammed by idiots.

Alexander, I share the same thoughts and feelings with you about many
posters on the various NG. I am sure there are many others who will soon
echo the same sentiments. This is a place to share ideas and knowledge, but
too many express their utter ignorance by pretending to be something that
they are not. Many are simply naive and only wish to attack those with a
different viewpoint, not realizing that they are missing an opportunity to
gain new knowledge or experience something new.

Happy holidays to you and your family my friend!

Dale

--

> Greetings from Auckland, New Zealand.
>
> I have taken the very unusual action (for me) of writing directly to a
> fellow contributor to alt.food.wine.
>
> I have contributed to this newsgroup since 1997 and have seen many people
> come and go - there are also quite a few "originals" who have been around
a
> lot longer than I.
>
> I would respectfully like to make a couple of points.
>

--- SNIP ---

Wow!...... Bravo.
--
Regards
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!

To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address

"R. Dale Leonard" > wrote in message
news:XxCFb.42970$hf1.32345@lakeread06...
> Wow, I am beyond shock. This is the 2nd amazing post I've read in the
> NewsGroups this month. Just when I had begun to lose faith that they were
> only spammed by idiots.
snip
Agree with our NZ contributor.
However, there is always this downside to an unmoderated ng. I wondered at
the time whether E Carl Speros was a troll and I am keeping an open mind on
it.

A superb UK newsgroup, uk.rec.birdwatching, has been virtually destroyed by
people feeding trolls, and malicious cross postings from animal rights
activists.
Some of our contributors were well known ornithologists, and the venom that
was piled on these authorities was upsetting to all of us.

Kill files work, but the way that these newsgroup assassins can now have
multiple and ever-changing ISP's is overwhelming my killfiles.

Just my 2p

JT

In ,
st.helier > typed:

> You have a choice Carl.
>
> You can take part in a knowledgeable and friendly manner,
respectful
> of those with greater knowledge than you, or you can arrogantly
> continue on the know-it-all manner you have demonstrated to
date.


Bravo! Well said (the entire message, not just the paragraph I
quoted).

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

st.helier wrote:
> Greetings from Auckland, New Zealand.
<a few snips here and there>
> I have taken the very unusual action (for me) of writing directly to a
> fellow contributor to alt.food.wine.
>
> I have contributed to this newsgroup since 1997 and have seen many people
> come and go - there are also quite a few "originals" who have been around a
> lot longer than I.
>
> I would respectfully like to make a couple of points.
>
> alt.food.wine is a very active group, set up for the friendly discussion re
> matters of wine appreciation, and as has been often noted, it is
> international in both it's scope and contributorship.
<snip>
> You can take part in a knowledgeable and friendly manner, respectful of
> those with greater knowledge than you, or you can arrogantly continue on the
> know-it-all manner you have demonstrated to date.
>
> I truly hope you chose the former path - elsewise I, (and many others)
> will simply killfile and/or ignore you.
<snip>
Hi Alexander Andrew St.Helier-Bourke a.k.a. Lord St.Helier
I would agree in principle with your statements. I must admit
I don't read every post in AFW - some just don't apply to me
(although I wish they did) - so I probably missed some posts.

I hope Mr. E. Carl will stay with us and adopt a more subdued
attitude. Everyone has something to contribute ... regardless.

Just my $.02
Dick in the USA

BTW: Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
- Product of New Zealand?

Hi Andrew,

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:26:53 +1300, "st.helier"
> wrote:


>I would respectfully like to make a couple of points.

Does your counting method go "One", "couple" ? (Grin!!)

Seriously. Well said. I agree with everything you wrote.


>If you are going to publish contentious statements, have the fortitude to
>defend your position, or retreat gracefully.

Don't hold your breath, Andrew.


>You have a choice Carl.

Put simply - "behave like a civilised human being or be killfiled".
I'm afraid I've got a shorter fuse than most and simply dismissed him
as one of Usenet's trolls and killfiled him several days ago. Life's
too short.


All the best
Ian
(To reply by email PLEASE don't use "Reply to" but
use my name at wanadoo.fr) Thanks.

Ian Hoare, masquerading as his sibling, wrote........


>
> >I would respectfully like to make a couple of points.
>
> Does your counting method go "One", "couple" ? (Grin!!)


Ian, as you well know, I am a simple beast!

Don't you remember my driving?

In town = foot half way on the gas!
Out of town = foot all the way down!

Similarly, in the same vein

One =1
Couple = more


>
>
> >If you are going to publish contentious statements,
> >have the fortitude to defend your position, or retreat gracefully.
>


Considering Civil War Carl's passion, I thought that the above statement was
nothing short of brilliant - but it seems to have been fired over every one
else's head !!!!

Oh well, back to the Christmas cheer!

(Can you rub some more suntan lotion on please hon. - and refill my glass
while you're up!!!)


--
st.helier the sunburnt.

"Dick R." > wrote in message

>
> Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
>


Mount Riley is another Marlborough vineyard whose star is on the rise.

The '02 Sauvignon is one of the better examples in a good vintage (sold out
here nearly a year ago!) in that typical zingy, gooseberry - ripe red
capsicum style.

2003 was a year where the quality was OK - but volumes are 30-50% down owing
to spring frosts; so if you can still find the '02 - go for it.

Although wine competitions leave me decidedly underwhelmed, I see from
perusing their web site www.mountriley.co.nz I see they picked up a gold
medal in San Francisco - which *may* make them a target from buyers who use
competitions as a buying guide.

Let me put it this way - Xmas downunder is bar-b-que / salad type of fare -
I would welcome a suitably chilled bottle on my luncheon table.

--
St.Helier

"st.helier" > wrote in
:

>
> "Dick R." > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
>>
>
>
> Mount Riley is another Marlborough vineyard whose star is on the rise.
>
> The '02 Sauvignon is one of the better examples in a good vintage
> (sold out here nearly a year ago!) in that typical zingy, gooseberry -
> ripe red capsicum style.
>
> 2003 was a year where the quality was OK - but volumes are 30-50% down
> owing to spring frosts; so if you can still find the '02 - go for it.
>
> Although wine competitions leave me decidedly underwhelmed, I see from
> perusing their web site www.mountriley.co.nz I see they picked up a
> gold medal in San Francisco - which *may* make them a target from
> buyers who use competitions as a buying guide.
>
> Let me put it this way - Xmas downunder is bar-b-que / salad type of
> fare - I would welcome a suitably chilled bottle on my luncheon table.
>
> --
> St.Helier
>
>
>

I have a bottle of 01 sitting in front of me. come on over (N. Florida)
I will share. Please don't tell me I am too late ;-)

"jcoulter" > wrote in message
. 199.17...
> "st.helier" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
>
> I have a bottle of 01 sitting in front of me. come on over (N. Florida)
> I will share. Please don't tell me I am too late ;-)

A bit late for me - tis Xmas eve (4:15pm) here and I have already popped a
bottle of bubbles!!!

Xmas greetings to all

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:

> "jcoulter" > wrote in message
> . 199.17...
>
>>"st.helier" > wrote in
:
>>
>>I have a bottle of 01 sitting in front of me. come on over (N. Florida)
>>I will share. Please don't tell me I am too late ;-)
>
> A bit late for me - tis Xmas eve (4:15pm) here and I have already popped a
> bottle of bubbles!!!
>
> Xmas greetings to all

Heh. I'm just about to pop the cork on a Clos du Val Lodi Zin
to accompany take-home pizza. Perhaps I'll pop the cork on
delightful '00 Marlborough Vineyard Pinot Noir tomorrow evening...

Best tidings to all!
Dana

"Dana Myers" wrote in message.....

> Perhaps I'll pop the cork on delightful '00 Marlborough
> Vineyard Pinot Noir tomorrow evening...


Do you mean *Martinborough* Vineyards, Dana?

If so, it is one on NZs better PNs.

--

St.Helier

st.helier wrote:
> "Dana Myers" wrote in message.....
>
>
>> Perhaps I'll pop the cork on delightful '00 Marlborough
>>Vineyard Pinot Noir tomorrow evening...
>
> Do you mean *Martinborough* Vineyards, Dana?

Um, yes indeed. Must have been a confused moment.
Martinborough Vineyards PN. Sorry about that.

> If so, it is one on NZs better PNs.

Heavens yes, it's delicious stuff. I like the
*Martinborough* Vineyards Sauvignon Blanc quite a
bit, too.

Cheers!
Dana

"Dana Myers" corrected himself by writing........


> > Do you mean *Martinborough* Vineyards, Dana?

>
> Um, yes indeed. Must have been a confused moment.
> Martinborough Vineyards PN. Sorry about that.
>
> > If so, it is one on NZs better PNs.
>
> Heavens yes, it's delicious stuff. I like the
> *Martinborough* Vineyards Sauvignon Blanc quite a


Yes, Sauvignon from Martinborough has most of the characteristics of
Marlborough, with the addition of a few more tropical nuances (guava,
pineapple etc)

If you can locate some, try a Sauvignon from Palliser Estate - also from
Martinborough.

Smart stuff.

Don't overindulge over the festive season????

No - retract that statement - Damn the torpedoes - enjoy! enjoy!
enjoy!

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:
<snip>
>>Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
<snip>
> Let me put it this way - Xmas downunder is bar-b-que / salad type of fare -
> I would welcome a suitably chilled bottle on my luncheon table.
>
Sounds like a good plan to me, but I'll have to wait 4 months or so
until the snow melts.

Thanks for the reply and Happy Holidays to you.
Dick in Minnesota, USA

jcoulter wrote:
<snip>
>>>Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
<snip>
>
> I have a bottle of 01 sitting in front of me. come on over (N. Florida)
> I will share. Please don't tell me I am too late ;-)
Thanks for the invite but we're all caught up in the holiday season -
shoppers rushing home with their treasures, etc. In January when the
harsh reality of winter sets in, I'll wish I was down there in Florida,
but I suppose the bottle will be gone by then. :-(

Have a nice holiday season,
Dick in Minnesota, USA

st.helier wrote:

> If you can locate some, try a Sauvignon from Palliser Estate - also from
> Martinborough.
>
> Smart stuff.

Excellent - thanks for the suggestion.

> Don't overindulge over the festive season????

Um, are you taking a survey?

> No - retract that statement - Damn the torpedoes - enjoy! enjoy!
> enjoy!

Ah! That's more like it. The same to you!

Dana

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:03:02 +1300, "st.helier"
> wrote:

>
>"Dick R." > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Any opinion on Mount Riley Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc 2002
>>
>
>
>Mount Riley is another Marlborough vineyard whose star is on the rise.
>
>The '02 Sauvignon is one of the better examples in a good vintage (sold out
>here nearly a year ago!) in that typical zingy, gooseberry - ripe red
>capsicum style.
>
>2003 was a year where the quality was OK - but volumes are 30-50% down owing
>to spring frosts; so if you can still find the '02 - go for it.
>
>Although wine competitions leave me decidedly underwhelmed, I see from
>perusing their web site www.mountriley.co.nz I see they picked up a gold
>medal in San Francisco - which *may* make them a target from buyers who use
>competitions as a buying guide.
>
>Let me put it this way - Xmas downunder is bar-b-que / salad type of fare -
>I would welcome a suitably chilled bottle on my luncheon table.

I did stock the Mt Riley for a while, conveniently distributed by
Angove's in Australia. With this rap, best I put it back on the
shelves. It was excellent QPR for a NZ SB, and even we Aussies
concede the greatness of the NZ SB's.

PS... Andrew, I still have a few bottles of the 02 Palliser stashed
away. Life span of this treat sir??

Regards Swooper