First off, is it common to decant sparkling wine? Much to our surprise our
Rose Champagne was decanted and served in a Syrah glasses to eliminate some of
the carbonation and enhance the fruit flavors. It was definitely a new
experience, as it was not fully sparkling at this point and showed some
interesting copper-fruit type notes.
Also, does anyone have any thoughts about the Borolo producer below? This
was my first Barolo ever and would like to find something similar to it again.
What might I expect when Barolo shopping- except for some high price tags?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Jason

The following is a list of the wines that were served with our meal for those
interested:

Billecart-Salmon MV Brut Reserve, Mareauil-sur-Ay
Geoffroy MV Brut Reserve, Cumieres
Txomin Etxaniz 2002 Hodurrabi Spain- Getariako Txakolina
Brokenwood 2002 Semillon Hunter Valley
Pierre Morey 1999 Mersault Tessns, 1er Cru Burgundy
Rudi Pichler 2001 Gruner Veltliner Federspeil, Wachau
Rocche dei Manzoi 1997 Vigna d'la Roul, Barolo
Ramonet 2001 Chassagne-Montrachet Vergers 1er CRu
Zind-Humbrecht 2001 Pinor Gris Rangen de Thann, Vandange Tardives
Bachelet 2000 Gevery-Chambertain Villes Vignes
Domaine Pichot 1990 Vovray
Paolo Saracco 2002 Moscato d'Asti
Cossart Gordon, 15 year old Bual Madeira
Chambers-Rosewood MV Museum Muscat Rutherglen-Australia

>Rocche dei Manzoi 1997 Vigna d'la Roul, Barolo

I think you meant Monzoni. It's about a $75.00 bottle.
Bi!!

In article >,
(Jaybert41) writes:

>First off, is it common to decant sparkling wine? Much to our surprise our
>Rose Champagne was decanted and served in a Syrah glasses to eliminate some
>of
>the carbonation and enhance the fruit flavors.

Not sure I've ever decanted a NV Champagne (actually, should that be "an NV",
since the N is pronounced "en"? We just had this discussion re "SUV" recently).

But I've seen it done with top-quality recent vintage Champagne. Depends on
whether you're looking for zip or for depth, in a way

> Also, does anyone have any thoughts about the Borolo producer below? This
>was my first Barolo ever and would like to find something similar to it
>again.
>What might I expect when Barolo shopping- except for some high price tags?

Rocche dei Manzoi 1997 Vigna d'la Roul, Barolo
\
I agree that should be Manzoni. Not a producer I know. Unclear where it falls
on the new/old producer spectrum. You could get aclue (though only a clue) re
Barolo possibilities by trying the Nebbiolos (d'Alba or otherwise) of a good
producer. As to what to expect- Barolo is a strange combination of the powerful
and the delicate.

>The following is a list of the wines that were served with our meal for those
>interested:

Nice list

>Rudi Pichler 2001 Gruner Veltliner Federspeil, Wachau
Yum

>Ramonet 2001 Chassagne-Montrachet Vergers 1er CRu
I tend to love Ramonet, Tom Reddcik saiod 2000s especially good

>Zind-Humbrecht 2001 Pinor Gris Rangen de Thann, Vandange Tardives

Z-H is at it's best with late-harvest wines, especially PG

>Bachelet 2000 Gevery-Chambertain Villes Vignes
Always a good wine

Notes, please!

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>Rocche dei Manzoi 1997 Vigna d'la Roul, Barolo
>\
>I agree that should be Manzoni. Not a producer I know. Unclear where it falls
>on the new/old producer spectrum. You could get aclue (though only a clue)
>re
>Barolo possibilities by trying the Nebbiolos (d'Alba or otherwise) of a good
>producer. As to what to expect- Barolo is a strange combination of the
>powerful
>and the delicate.
>

I have only heard about the appeal of Barolo in "serious" wine circles and this
being my first taste I am definitely interested in another. In a way in
reminded me of the Bachelet 2000 Chasagne Montrachet that appeared later in the
meal and like you said possessed both delicacy and power in a way that I have
never seen. Both wines were greatly intruiging, especially in that redicously
huge fish bowl Riedel glass.

>>Zind-Humbrecht 2001 Pinor Gris Rangen de Thann, Vandange Tardives
>
>Z-H is at it's best with late-harvest wines, especially PG
>

This was my first Z-H and it truly blew me away. I love the great Alsacaian
grapes and this wine made a strong introduction to such a highly acclaimed
producer that will definitly make my holiday shopping list.

>Notes, please!

Gosh, I wish I could have done better with some notes but I was completly
overwhelmed from the minute I walked in the door and frankly was way over
stimulated to take consise notes. In all, nineteen courses and fourteen wines
later I am glad that I can remember what I did! I can give you plenty of food
notes though...

One thing that I was impressed with is that almost all of the bottles that they
served to Brooke and I were freshly opened. I knew that these werent just the
bottles that happened to be open that night and made it to our table. There
was great intenet to really blow our socks off. I was actually expecting to
see a lot more wines from California in the flight.

Not only was is a delight to eat such magnificent food, is was also an eye
opening wine experience to enjoy many wines that I am not fortunate enough to
drink at home. I could get used to this...


jason

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,

> (Jaybert41) writes:
>
> >First off, is it common to decant sparkling wine? Much to our surprise
our
> >Rose Champagne was decanted and served in a Syrah glasses to eliminate
some
> >of
> >the carbonation and enhance the fruit flavors.
>
> Not sure I've ever decanted a NV Champagne (actually, should that be "an
NV",
> since the N is pronounced "en"? We just had this discussion re "SUV"
recently).
>
> But I've seen it done with top-quality recent vintage Champagne. Depends
on
> whether you're looking for zip or for depth, in a way
>
>

This sounds rather curiously old-fashioned and reminiscent of the 1920s when
people actually bought a gadget called a "swizzle stick" whose function was
to remove the carbonation in champagne. Didn't P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie
Wooster not have one?


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

(Jaybert41) wrote:

> Txomin Etxaniz 2002 Hodurrabi Spain- Getariako Txakolina

I love basque!

M.

"James Silverton" > a écrit dans le message de

> This sounds rather curiously old-fashioned and reminiscent of the 1920s
when
> people actually bought a gadget called a "swizzle stick" whose function
was
> to remove the carbonation in champagne. Didn't P.G. Wodehouse's Bertie
> Wooster not have one?

James,

I am not sure,
but
it's not just a question of fashion,
some champagne-sparkling lovers-enthusiats,
decant a champagne-sparkling, often when it's a Non Vintage
a young champagne-sparkling exactly in the same way,
as the wine-lower in order to open the wine ( young )
and to reaveal all the full aromas and flavours.
Some others use this way, because they do not like the fizzy bubbles
so it's easier for them to taste a sparkling-champagne with no or less
bubbles.

Because, in fact, a great champagne- a great sparkling is just a great wine
with few bubbles around.
Is not it ?

All the best,

Francis

"francis b" > wrote in message
...
>> James,
>
> I am not sure,
> but
> it's not just a question of fashion,
> some champagne-sparkling lovers-enthusiats,
> decant a champagne-sparkling, often when it's a Non Vintage
> a young champagne-sparkling exactly in the same way,
> as the wine-lower in order to open the wine ( young )
> and to reaveal all the full aromas and flavours.
> Some others use this way, because they do not like the fizzy bubbles
> so it's easier for them to taste a sparkling-champagne with no or less
> bubbles.
>
> Because, in fact, a great champagne- a great sparkling is just a great
wine
> with few bubbles around.
> Is not it ?

Agreed, it *is* a matter of taste but, IMHO, a flat champagne be it vintage
or non-vintage is not very interesting and I think I can find less expensive
still wines that I much prefer.

Jim.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:50:58 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

>
>"francis b" > wrote in message
...

>> Because, in fact, a great champagne- a great sparkling is just a great
>wine
>> with few bubbles around.
>> Is not it ?
>
>Agreed, it *is* a matter of taste but, IMHO, a flat champagne be it vintage
>or non-vintage is not very interesting and I think I can find less expensive
>still wines that I much prefer.

Jim, Francis's point is not that at all, he is simply saying that
unless champagne is made from top quality still wine, it will not be
good champagne.

We enjoyed three evenings of wine tasting with Francis about 2 weeks
ago, and his new Petraea cuvee is outstanding, the kind of wine you
just want to experiment matching food to.

Mike

A very long time ago Champagne was a still wine, and such wines, both
red and white, were available from many different vineyards. They were
popular in England and elsewhere as well as in France. After it was
found how to make these wines sparkle in a reliable manner, the still
wines of Champagne became considerably less popular. In fact, in many
parts of the world today, you may find it very difficult to find a still
Champagne, which now must be labeled as Coteaux Champenois. In fact I
have only tasted one example of a white one, and it was not very
special. Wines from the best vineyards seem to usually end up in the
better sparkling Champagne, and little of the top wine is left for
Coteaux Champenois. Of course some of the Champagne growers may keep a
little of the top still wines for themselves and their friends, if they
fancy this style. If I wanted a top quality still wine from Champagne, I
probably would have to remove the bubbles from a sparkling one.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> In fact, in many parts of the world today, you may find it very
> difficult to find a still Champagne, which now must be labeled
> as Coteaux Champenois. In fact I have only tasted one example of
> a white one, and it was not very special. Wines from the best
> vineyards seem to usually end up in the better sparkling
> Champagne, and little of the top wine is left for Coteaux
> Champenois.

There is a simple, but *major* point why Côteaux Champenois cannot
be great. An ideal vin clair (base wine) would never have more
than 10.5 percent alcohol - in fact quite often it has less and is
chaptalized to this mark. As anyone knows, it's absolutely
impossible to make decent still white with 10.5 percent - with one
exception, the Moselle. And since Côteaux Champenois sells cheaper
than the real thing, there is absolutely no incentive to reduce
yields to get more ripeness.

In fact I had a decent red once: Saran Nature, and the vintage was
1969 or 1976 (an extremely hot year in any case), served by Moët
at Lunch in their Chteau de Saran back in 1987.

> Of course some of the Champagne growers may keep a little of the
> top still wines for themselves and their friends, if they fancy
> this style. If I wanted a top quality still wine from Champagne,
> I probably would have to remove the bubbles from a sparkling
> one.

Which would leave you with an off-dry wine.

M.

Michael Pronay wrote in part:"In fact I had a decent red once: Saran
Nature, and the vintage was 1969 or 1976 (an extremely hot year in any
case), served by Mo=EBt at Lunch in their Ch=E2teau de Saran back in
1987."

The one white I had was also a Mo=EBt, and labeled Saran Coteaux
Champenois Blanc de Blancs. This probably was in the late 70's. I think
it was NV, but I am not certain about this. Anyway, it was a bit on the
thin and light side and did not seem likely to improve with age. Not
many would select it over a even fairly good white Burgundy. If money
were no object, I do not know if a top still wine could be made in
Champagne or not. However the still wines at oe time did have many
followers. I suspect making a still red from Pinot Noir in Champagne
might be about as difficult as making a red from Pinot Noir in the
Rheingau. It may work in the best years, but usually you are likely to
get a rather thin wine that may be closer to a rose than a red. I have
tasted several red Assmansha=FCser H=F6llenberg Sp=E4tburgunders, and
most were too thin for my taste. Some are on the slightly sweet side. Of
course they also sometimes make an auslese sweet red, but that is not to
my taste. Perhaps this very hot year in Europe will produce some
interesting reds in the Rheingau or other cold regions, but I have heard
no reports concerning this. But in Champagne, as you say, the grapes
were most likely picked before maximum possible ripeness for making
normal sparkling Champagne.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote in news:13266-3FDDE15C-331
@storefull-2352.public.lawson.webtv.net:

>
.. I suspect making a still red from Pinot Noir in Champagne
> might be about as difficult as making a red from Pinot Noir in the
> Rheingau. It may work in the best years, but usually you are likely to
> get a rather thin wine that may be closer to a rose than a red. I have
> tasted several red Assmanshaüser Höllenberg Spätburgunders, and
> most were too thin for my taste. Some are on the slightly sweet side. Of
> course they also sometimes make an auslese sweet red, but that is not to
> my taste.
Bouzy Rouge gets good marks (champagne region red from village of same
name)

>I have
>> tasted several red Assmanshaüser Höllenberg Spätburgunders, and
>> most were too thin for my taste. Some are on the slightly sweet side. Of
>> course they also sometimes make an auslese sweet red, but that is not to
>> my taste.

And sometimes they make an auslese or beerenauslese from Spätburgunder that
they haven't pressed (or not much) so they colour from the skins doesn't get
into the must (think of Champagne). I have had some absolutely wonderful white,
or perhaps slightly pink late harvest wines from Pinot Noir.

I have also had both still and sparkling pinot from Lingenfelter that was very
presentable.