Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best dinner
ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes, without a
doubt.

Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food was outstanding,
the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In addition to the 9 courses were
several tidbits that the kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best
meal ever? Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no, that is
just money. I think it was one course. There was choice of a Pork Belly
Preparation that was couse number 4 or a Coeur De Veau Confit which is Veal
Hearts. I basically was sliced thin like a pastrami and was cured. While
the taste was very nice I just never heard of eating Veal Hearts. I love
Sweatbreads, Foie Gras etc...but Veal Hearts I had to try and cannot
complain...would never order on a regular menu anywhere however.

The stars of the night was the first course Oysters and Pearls which they
serve every night. That is the only staple on the menu. Sabayon of pearls
tapioca with beau soleil oysters and white sturgeon caviar. Pairs with a
Gommonet Blanc du Blanc for one and I had the Laurent Perrier Grand Siecle.
While small it got the mouth watering...truly outstanding.

The Foie Gras course was excellent. Best presentation ever and we paired a
Raymond Lafon Sauterns.1999 By the glass. We actually split a glass
between us on this course.

The next few couses we paired with a 1/2 bottle of Javalier Meursault Les
Tillits 2004, Saute Barramundi or Carpaccio of Atlantic Fluke. I had the
Fluke..very good. so was the other.

Next was the Sweet Butter Poached Maine Lobster with same Meursault.
Incredible.

Next was the Pork belly or veal heart. Meursault for the Pork Belly, I had
a glass of a Burgundy, Name escapes me. Nice!!!

We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a Cabernet.
Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I have to admit
when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a black angus it
paired well. Would select a different wine next time if ever.

No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for all
the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was a
cheese course as well.

If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
food.

About 75 Days out I asked a credit card concierge to make the res for me and
I have them a 10 day window. They did it exactly 60 days out.


"Jim Mehl" > wrote in message
.. .
> Just out of curiousity, how far ahead did you make reservations?
> Jim
>
> "Richard Neidich" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best
>> dinner ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes,
>> without a doubt.
>>
>> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food was
>> outstanding, the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In addition to the 9
>> courses were several tidbits that the kitchen kept sending out. So why
>> not the best meal ever? Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd
>> pricing--no, that is just money. I think it was one course. There was
>> choice of a Pork Belly Preparation that was couse number 4 or a Coeur De
>> Veau Confit which is Veal Hearts. I basically was sliced thin like a
>> pastrami and was cured. While the taste was very nice I just never heard
>> of eating Veal Hearts. I love Sweatbreads, Foie Gras etc...but Veal
>> Hearts I had to try and cannot complain...would never order on a regular
>> menu anywhere however.
>>
>> The stars of the night was the first course Oysters and Pearls which they
>> serve every night. That is the only staple on the menu. Sabayon of
>> pearls tapioca with beau soleil oysters and white sturgeon caviar. Pairs
>> with a Gommonet Blanc du Blanc for one and I had the Laurent Perrier
>> Grand Siecle. While small it got the mouth watering...truly outstanding.
>>
>> The Foie Gras course was excellent. Best presentation ever and we
>> paired a Raymond Lafon Sauterns.1999 By the glass. We actually split a
>> glass between us on this course.
>>
>> The next few couses we paired with a 1/2 bottle of Javalier Meursault Les
>> Tillits 2004, Saute Barramundi or Carpaccio of Atlantic Fluke. I had the
>> Fluke..very good. so was the other.
>>
>> Next was the Sweet Butter Poached Maine Lobster with same Meursault.
>> Incredible.
>>
>> Next was the Pork belly or veal heart. Meursault for the Pork Belly, I
>> had a glass of a Burgundy, Name escapes me. Nice!!!
>>
>> We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a
>> Cabernet. Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I
>> have to admit when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a
>> black angus it paired well. Would select a different wine next time if
>> ever.
>>
>> No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for
>> all the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was
>> a cheese course as well.
>>
>> If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
>> food.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

Just out of curiousity, how far ahead did you make reservations?
Jim

"Richard Neidich" > wrote in message
...
> Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best dinner
> ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes, without a
> doubt.
>
> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food was outstanding,
> the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In addition to the 9 courses were
> several tidbits that the kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best
> meal ever? Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no, that
> is just money. I think it was one course. There was choice of a Pork
> Belly Preparation that was couse number 4 or a Coeur De Veau Confit which
> is Veal Hearts. I basically was sliced thin like a pastrami and was
> cured. While the taste was very nice I just never heard of eating Veal
> Hearts. I love Sweatbreads, Foie Gras etc...but Veal Hearts I had to try
> and cannot complain...would never order on a regular menu anywhere
> however.
>
> The stars of the night was the first course Oysters and Pearls which they
> serve every night. That is the only staple on the menu. Sabayon of
> pearls tapioca with beau soleil oysters and white sturgeon caviar. Pairs
> with a Gommonet Blanc du Blanc for one and I had the Laurent Perrier Grand
> Siecle. While small it got the mouth watering...truly outstanding.
>
> The Foie Gras course was excellent. Best presentation ever and we paired
> a Raymond Lafon Sauterns.1999 By the glass. We actually split a glass
> between us on this course.
>
> The next few couses we paired with a 1/2 bottle of Javalier Meursault Les
> Tillits 2004, Saute Barramundi or Carpaccio of Atlantic Fluke. I had the
> Fluke..very good. so was the other.
>
> Next was the Sweet Butter Poached Maine Lobster with same Meursault.
> Incredible.
>
> Next was the Pork belly or veal heart. Meursault for the Pork Belly, I
> had a glass of a Burgundy, Name escapes me. Nice!!!
>
> We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a Cabernet.
> Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I have to
> admit when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a black
> angus it paired well. Would select a different wine next time if ever.
>
> No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for all
> the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was a
> cheese course as well.
>
> If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
> food.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Richard wrote on Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:27:26 -0400:

RN> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food
RN> was outstanding, the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In
RN> addition to the 9 courses were several tidbits that the
RN> kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best meal ever?
RN> Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no,
RN> that is just money.

An interesting route to obtaining a reservation. I'd never
thought of that but I don't think there is that sort of card
among my collection. Even if I cannot contemplate eating much of
that menu these days, can you say which credit card you used and
approximately how much the meal cost?

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Sadly, I carry the The titanium Centurion Card from American Express that
carrys a hefty annual Fee. They did NOT get me into the FL.

The card that did was my "Free" Nordstrom Visa Signature card.

The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per person.


"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:473Ti.2589$vw2.2427@trnddc01...
> Richard wrote on Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:27:26 -0400:
>
> RN> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food
> RN> was outstanding, the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In
> RN> addition to the 9 courses were several tidbits that the
> RN> kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best meal ever?
> RN> Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no,
> RN> that is just money.
>
> An interesting route to obtaining a reservation. I'd never thought of that
> but I don't think there is that sort of card among my collection. Even if
> I cannot contemplate eating much of that menu these days, can you say
> which credit card you used and approximately how much the meal cost?
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Oct 21, 10:27 pm, "Richard Neidich" > wrote:
> Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best dinner
> ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes, without a
> doubt.

> We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a Cabernet.
> Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I have to admit
> when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a black angus it
> paired well. Would select a different wine next time if ever.
>
> No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for all
> the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was a
> cheese course as well.
>
> If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
> food.

Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive amounts of food
as part of high quality, especially on tasting menus. For that reason
I am unlikely to try a tasting menu at most places and am unlikely to
go to a restaurant that does not have a la carte choices or at least a
tasting menu of just a few courses. Another problem with tasting menus
of a large number of courses is wine unless the party is large,
everyone orders the same thing, and one can justify ordering a bottle
or half bottle to go with each course for which wine is desired. One
indication of a great restaurant used to be that not only were they
known for the quality of the food on the menu, but you could just
order what you wanted without a menu and they would cook it for you.
You of course would have to make your request ahead of time if you
wanted something that took many hours to slow cook etc. This sort of
service seems to be gone in the US, at least. It requires a huge
staff, a kitchen that makes nearly everything fresh each day, and that
has all of the basic sauces always at hand with which to build
compound sauces.

I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought was done
right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US, and their tasting menu
was about 10 courses. However each portion was a very small jewel. You
did not feel bloated before the meal was over. Unfortunately if you
order the tasting menu at most of the top rated restaurants in the US
today, you are unlikely to be able to eat everything, and if you did
you might feel like an old Roman figged pig :-). In old Rome, pigs
sometimes were fed a huge amount of dried figs. Then they drank a lot
of water. This caused the figs to swell and bloated them greatly. Then
they were cleaned and cooked. The process was supposed to increase the
quality of the meat.

Well, I can normally eat as much as is served but the food was so rich and
we we a late seating of 8:45 PM.

Don't get me wrong, it was very good but I agree in the wine, it was almost
the same price as the food per person. The red, their house label I would
have expected to be better but it was good.
"cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Oct 21, 10:27 pm, "Richard Neidich" > wrote:
>> Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best
>> dinner
>> ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes, without a
>> doubt.
>
>> We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a
>> Cabernet.
>> Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I have to
>> admit
>> when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a black angus it
>> paired well. Would select a different wine next time if ever.
>>
>> No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for
>> all
>> the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was a
>> cheese course as well.
>>
>> If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
>> food.
>
> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive amounts of food
> as part of high quality, especially on tasting menus. For that reason
> I am unlikely to try a tasting menu at most places and am unlikely to
> go to a restaurant that does not have a la carte choices or at least a
> tasting menu of just a few courses. Another problem with tasting menus
> of a large number of courses is wine unless the party is large,
> everyone orders the same thing, and one can justify ordering a bottle
> or half bottle to go with each course for which wine is desired. One
> indication of a great restaurant used to be that not only were they
> known for the quality of the food on the menu, but you could just
> order what you wanted without a menu and they would cook it for you.
> You of course would have to make your request ahead of time if you
> wanted something that took many hours to slow cook etc. This sort of
> service seems to be gone in the US, at least. It requires a huge
> staff, a kitchen that makes nearly everything fresh each day, and that
> has all of the basic sauces always at hand with which to build
> compound sauces.
>
> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought was done
> right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US, and their tasting menu
> was about 10 courses. However each portion was a very small jewel. You
> did not feel bloated before the meal was over. Unfortunately if you
> order the tasting menu at most of the top rated restaurants in the US
> today, you are unlikely to be able to eat everything, and if you did
> you might feel like an old Roman figged pig :-). In old Rome, pigs
> sometimes were fed a huge amount of dried figs. Then they drank a lot
> of water. This caused the figs to swell and bloated them greatly. Then
> they were cleaned and cooked. The process was supposed to increase the
> quality of the meat.
>
>

Richard Neidich wrote:
> Well, I can normally eat as much as is served but the food was so rich and
> we we a late seating of 8:45 PM.
>
> Don't get me wrong, it was very good but I agree in the wine, it was almost
> the same price as the food per person. The red, their house label I would
> have expected to be better but it was good.

Dick,
First off, thanks for the trip report. I don't know if I'll ever eat
at FL, so hearing firsthand reports such as yours (and Ian Hoare's
several years ago) may be as close as I ever come to it. Having said
that, though, I typically expect to pay about the same for food and wine
at a top restaurant (and even at many second-tier places). Since wine
is an integral part of the meal IMO, why shouldn't I pay about the same
for it? YMMV, of course.


> "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
> oups.com...

>> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive amounts of food
>> as part of high quality, especially on tasting menus. For that reason
>> I am unlikely to try a tasting menu at most places and am unlikely to
>> go to a restaurant that does not have a la carte choices or at least a
>> tasting menu of just a few courses. Another problem with tasting menus
>> of a large number of courses is wine unless the party is large,
>> everyone orders the same thing, and one can justify ordering a bottle
>> or half bottle to go with each course for which wine is desired. One
>> indication of a great restaurant used to be that not only were they
>> known for the quality of the food on the menu, but you could just
>> order what you wanted without a menu and they would cook it for you.
>> You of course would have to make your request ahead of time if you
>> wanted something that took many hours to slow cook etc. This sort of
>> service seems to be gone in the US, at least. It requires a huge
>> staff, a kitchen that makes nearly everything fresh each day, and that
>> has all of the basic sauces always at hand with which to build
>> compound sauces.
>>
>> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought was done
>> right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US, and their tasting menu
>> was about 10 courses. However each portion was a very small jewel. You
>> did not feel bloated before the meal was over. Unfortunately if you
>> order the tasting menu at most of the top rated restaurants in the US
>> today, you are unlikely to be able to eat everything, and if you did
>> you might feel like an old Roman figged pig :-). In old Rome, pigs
>> sometimes were fed a huge amount of dried figs. Then they drank a lot
>> of water. This caused the figs to swell and bloated them greatly. Then
>> they were cleaned and cooked. The process was supposed to increase the
>> quality of the meat.

I have several thoughts about this. Firstly, while I haven't eaten
*that* many tasting menus, those that I have had haven't been excessive
at all. The meal at Manresa that I posted back in '05 involved at least
12 courses, but they were all very small in size and spread out over 4
hours, so I left there feeling full but not stuffed at all. I've also
had tasting menus at Charlie Trotter's in '99 and Tru last year, and
neither was overly much food. Having said that, though, I must add that
I regret the change in the '90s in most high end American restaurants to
bigger portions of food. Very often the portion of the main course that
I am served is more then enough for most normal appetites and certainly
more than I serve at home. If anything, I find that the tasting menus
I've had have involved less food than standard a la carte dining. YMMV
of course.

Secondly, you are correct that wine pairing is difficult with a tasting
menu, but all of the restaurants I've been to that offered tasting menus
have also offered wine pairing with each course. That means, however,
that you get no discretion over the wine choice, so you are at the mercy
of the sommelier/wine director. I don't think that I've ever taken the
wine pairing option with those (few) tasting menus I've had because
there were other bottles on the wine list that were more interesting to
me and because I love the intellectual challenge of finding my own pairing.

I will be dining with my mother in SF to celebrate her 80th birthday in
late December and may very well end up eating a tasting menu. If so,
I'll report back in due course.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

I have eaten at C. Trotters, this was much more food. Normally, after
tasting menus of very small portions I am satisfied but not stuffed. In
this case that was NOT the case. Could have been that food was more rich
and eating much later than normal.

The wine list was GREATLY overpriced. For example Schramsberg that was
$12-$14 everythere in the area even at Bouchon was $20 at FL. I think that
was a bit greedy. Just my opinion.

On the other hand the LP Grand Siecle was $40 a glass, it was a very full
pour and was a good value relative to the Schramsberg. So I had that with
the first dish.

The El Molino Chardonnay is $125 on their menu and I had elsewhere in Napa
area for $80 and you can buy at winery for $45.00.

The wine was as much as the food, but not all wine is equal and in my
opinion some was excessive.

I was not told I could not email it but if anyone really wants I scanned the
menus to a PDF and I have a 100 page Excel wine list they had sent the week
before the meal.

I had planned about $1000 mentally before the trip. The food was
outstanding but I had thought the wine would not have been so outrageously
priced relative to other quality establishements in Napa area.

fyi

dick
"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
> Richard Neidich wrote:
>> Well, I can normally eat as much as is served but the food was so rich
>> and
>> we we a late seating of 8:45 PM.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, it was very good but I agree in the wine, it was
>> almost
>> the same price as the food per person. The red, their house label I
>> would
>> have expected to be better but it was good.
>
> Dick,
> First off, thanks for the trip report. I don't know if I'll ever eat
> at FL, so hearing firsthand reports such as yours (and Ian Hoare's
> several years ago) may be as close as I ever come to it. Having said
> that, though, I typically expect to pay about the same for food and wine
> at a top restaurant (and even at many second-tier places). Since wine
> is an integral part of the meal IMO, why shouldn't I pay about the same
> for it? YMMV, of course.
>
>
>> "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>
>>> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive amounts of food
>>> as part of high quality, especially on tasting menus. For that reason
>>> I am unlikely to try a tasting menu at most places and am unlikely to
>>> go to a restaurant that does not have a la carte choices or at least a
>>> tasting menu of just a few courses. Another problem with tasting menus
>>> of a large number of courses is wine unless the party is large,
>>> everyone orders the same thing, and one can justify ordering a bottle
>>> or half bottle to go with each course for which wine is desired. One
>>> indication of a great restaurant used to be that not only were they
>>> known for the quality of the food on the menu, but you could just
>>> order what you wanted without a menu and they would cook it for you.
>>> You of course would have to make your request ahead of time if you
>>> wanted something that took many hours to slow cook etc. This sort of
>>> service seems to be gone in the US, at least. It requires a huge
>>> staff, a kitchen that makes nearly everything fresh each day, and that
>>> has all of the basic sauces always at hand with which to build
>>> compound sauces.
>>>
>>> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought was done
>>> right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US, and their tasting menu
>>> was about 10 courses. However each portion was a very small jewel. You
>>> did not feel bloated before the meal was over. Unfortunately if you
>>> order the tasting menu at most of the top rated restaurants in the US
>>> today, you are unlikely to be able to eat everything, and if you did
>>> you might feel like an old Roman figged pig :-). In old Rome, pigs
>>> sometimes were fed a huge amount of dried figs. Then they drank a lot
>>> of water. This caused the figs to swell and bloated them greatly. Then
>>> they were cleaned and cooked. The process was supposed to increase the
>>> quality of the meat.
>
> I have several thoughts about this. Firstly, while I haven't eaten
> *that* many tasting menus, those that I have had haven't been excessive
> at all. The meal at Manresa that I posted back in '05 involved at least
> 12 courses, but they were all very small in size and spread out over 4
> hours, so I left there feeling full but not stuffed at all. I've also
> had tasting menus at Charlie Trotter's in '99 and Tru last year, and
> neither was overly much food. Having said that, though, I must add that
> I regret the change in the '90s in most high end American restaurants to
> bigger portions of food. Very often the portion of the main course that
> I am served is more then enough for most normal appetites and certainly
> more than I serve at home. If anything, I find that the tasting menus
> I've had have involved less food than standard a la carte dining. YMMV
> of course.
>
> Secondly, you are correct that wine pairing is difficult with a tasting
> menu, but all of the restaurants I've been to that offered tasting menus
> have also offered wine pairing with each course. That means, however,
> that you get no discretion over the wine choice, so you are at the mercy
> of the sommelier/wine director. I don't think that I've ever taken the
> wine pairing option with those (few) tasting menus I've had because
> there were other bottles on the wine list that were more interesting to
> me and because I love the intellectual challenge of finding my own
> pairing.
>
> I will be dining with my mother in SF to celebrate her 80th birthday in
> late December and may very well end up eating a tasting menu. If so,
> I'll report back in due course.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Richard Neidich wrote:
<snip>
>
> The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per person.
>
Hi Richard,
Wow! Sounds like an expensive meal, but with good wines it could
be "reasonable", if you can write it off on your taxes as a
business expense. :-)

Dick R.

I think the Tyco guy Dennis Kozlowski did that already...did not work well
for him :-(


"Dick R." > wrote in message
...
> Richard Neidich wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per person.
>>
> Hi Richard,
> Wow! Sounds like an expensive meal, but with good wines it could
> be "reasonable", if you can write it off on your taxes as a
> business expense. :-)
>
> Dick R.

Richard Neidich wrote:
> I have eaten at C. Trotters, this was much more food. Normally, after
> tasting menus of very small portions I am satisfied but not stuffed. In
> this case that was NOT the case. Could have been that food was more rich
> and eating much later than normal.

That does sound crazy, Dick, and I wonder what Thomas Keller is
thinking? Perhaps he's just avoiding criticism of not serving enough
food, but I'd hope that anyone willing to go there understands that it's
about quality not quantity. Still, I haven't walked in his shoes...

>
> The wine list was GREATLY overpriced. For example Schramsberg that was
> $12-$14 everythere in the area even at Bouchon was $20 at FL. I think that
> was a bit greedy. Just my opinion.

And that's the real point, I think. I don't mind spending as much on
wine as on food provided that I don't feel that I'm getting ripped off.
When I encounter an overpriced wine list, I usually cherry pick the 1-2
"value" wines that I can find and build my dinner around them, in which
case the wine/food ratio is usually less than 1 -- their loss!


> The El Molino Chardonnay is $125 on their menu and I had elsewhere in Napa
> area for $80 and you can buy at winery for $45.00.

Yup, overpriced. Maybe they just figure that most people eating there
are on expense accounts and don't give a shit. FWIW, when I've eaten at
Michelin-starred restaurants in France, their wine lists have been very
reasonably priced.

Thanks again,
Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Richard wrote on Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:14:10 -0400:

RN> The card that did was my "Free" Nordstrom Visa Signature
RN> card.

RN> The cost of thre meal with wine and extra tip was $500 per
RN> person.

I guess I won't being going that route :-( All my credit cards
have no fees since I no longer have an employer to pick up fees.
AFAICT, a Google search indicates that cards with "concierge"
services are pretty steep. Relatives in San Francisco who
*might* be inclined to try the French Laundry suffer like me
from the effects of a Scots upbringing, even if the concierge
service was news to them too :-)

I hope you enjoyed the experience!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Mark Lipton" in :
> ...
> > "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
>
> >> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive
> >> amounts of food as part of high quality, especially on tasting
> >> menus. For that reasonI am unlikely to try a tasting menu at
> >> most places and am unlikely to go to a restaurant that does
> >> not have a la carte choices ...
> >>
> >> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought
> >> was done right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US...
> >> about 10 courses... each portion was a very small jewel.

Wow. I've done many US tasting menus in recent years at restaurants with
good gastronomic reputation -- it's a good introduction to a new restaurant.
My experiences most often resembled cwdjrxyz's "one tasting menu ... that I
thought was done right." It's a growing format at independent US
restaurants that reach high and want to show what they can do. In fact, if
you visit a restaurant with evidence of skill and spark in the kitchen, and
the menu listing is purely à la carte, it can be very effective to ask the
kitchen just to "bring us a few things." Explain you're new to the place,
and would like to know their cooking. This has led to some amazing
courses -- kitchens resonate, there's nothing that good cooks like better
than the customers who give them space to show their art, and who appreciate
it. (Rather than, for instance, demanding the kitchen to conform to some
preconception, whatever it is.) I have heard this stated more often by
cooks than customers.

Wine pairings also are increasingly offered with tasting menus. It's a
little more work for the wine service (I was just talking to a wine director
about exactly that subject) because of a new wine for every course.
However, it allows insightful pairings by people who know the food better
than anyone else. It has the advantage for the restaurant of predicting
some of the demand, and likewise less risk of opening a fresh bottle for a
single per-glass pour and wasting the rest of it. Like Mark, I don't always
choose wine pairings if there's some particular alternative, but I notice
that they can work well.

On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, "Max Hauser" > wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" :
>
> > ...
> > > "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
> > roups.com...
>
> > >> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive
> > >> amounts of food as part of high quality, especially on tasting
> > >> menus. For that reasonI am unlikely to try a tasting menu at
> > >> most places and am unlikely to go to a restaurant that does
> > >> not have a la carte choices ...
>
> > >> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought
> > >> was done right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US...
> > >> about 10 courses... each portion was a very small jewel.
>
> Wow. I've done many US tasting menus in recent years at restaurants with
> good gastronomic reputation -- it's a good introduction to a new restaurant.

I have done wine dinners where they had over 10 wines but served 1/2 glass
pours that were 2 oz for the smaller items. It was GREAT!!!

Tried a Torcolato from Maculan (spelling,) and Egon Muller Kabinett
2002...that way. outstanding.

Honestly the dinner and wine was very nice. That said, I think that the
wine list while extensive was massively overpriced.

"Tire-Bouchon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, "Max Hauser" > wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" :
>
> > ...
> > > "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
> > roups.com...
>
> > >> Too many modern high end restaurants confuse excessive
> > >> amounts of food as part of high quality, especially on tasting
> > >> menus. For that reasonI am unlikely to try a tasting menu at
> > >> most places and am unlikely to go to a restaurant that does
> > >> not have a la carte choices ...
>
> > >> I only had one tasting menu many years ago that I thought
> > >> was done right. It was a Japanese restaurant in the US...
> > >> about 10 courses... each portion was a very small jewel.
>
> Wow. I've done many US tasting menus in recent years at restaurants with
> good gastronomic reputation -- it's a good introduction to a new
> restaurant.
> My experiences most often resembled cwdjrxyz's "one tasting menu ... that
> I
> thought was done right." It's a growing format at independent US
> restaurants that reach high and want to show what they can do. In fact,
> if
> you visit a restaurant with evidence of skill and spark in the kitchen,
> and
> the menu listing is purely à la carte, it can be very effective to ask the
> kitchen just to "bring us a few things." Explain you're new to the place,
> and would like to know their cooking. This has led to some amazing
> courses -- kitchens resonate, there's nothing that good cooks like better
> than the customers who give them space to show their art, and who
> appreciate
> it. (Rather than, for instance, demanding the kitchen to conform to some
> preconception, whatever it is.) I have heard this stated more often by
> cooks than customers.
>
> Wine pairings also are increasingly offered with tasting menus. It's a
> little more work for the wine service (I was just talking to a wine
> director
> about exactly that subject) because of a new wine for every course.
> However, it allows insightful pairings by people who know the food better
> than anyone else. It has the advantage for the restaurant of predicting
> some of the demand, and likewise less risk of opening a fresh bottle for a
> single per-glass pour and wasting the rest of it. Like Mark, I don't
> always
> choose wine pairings if there's some particular alternative, but I notice
> that they can work well.

I find that my customers enjoy wine pairings with our tasting menus
because they get to taste things they normally wouldn't order or know
about. I think 10 wines is the limit, whatever the number of courses
because of palate fatigue and the other obvious side-effect.

Mark Slater
Sommelier (Citronelle)

My wife and I eat about half of what one of us used to eat 10 years
ago so we are very careful of the tasting or fixed menus that put
everything out there. I am not a fan of FL for exactly that reason.
We just had a meal at Alice's dive in Berkeley where we are very
careful to pick a night that we are in harmony with the menu and
then exercise care in how much we eat. Being an East coaster, I focus
on wine when in Kalifornia and I never want to drink a wine that I am
already familiar with. We each get a different wine with each
course and share. I think we did 15 different wines at Alice's. And
I must have learned from something from your previous postings Max
because I often ask to sample the offerings. I am old enough now that I
can see that I don't have that many great meals ahead of me
so the meals that I do eat, I want to concentrate on great
food rather than great ambiance.
I have been to the FL three times and chose not to visit
there on my last trip. Last year I was leading a group from Florida
out to Napa and called the FL and they were willing to host us any
night except Friday with 5 days notice but the catch was that as a
group we were charged $600/person in a private room. (I did not ask
if that included the wine) I have never made a reservation more than
3 days in advance there. The owner of my favorite joint in Healdsburg
used to hang out there and was able to get us in any time we wanted to
go.
The Enigma of Napa is the CIA. It is a good place for lunch but when
you walk in, the name "Marvin Shanklin" is all over the place. Big
egos turn me off but they do a great lunch and the wine is cheap.
The more wines on the wine list that I have never heard of, the more
that I appreciate the restaurant. War horses are nice when you are
shopping in a hurry but I want to discover new wines. (I really would
not turn down a bottle of Jackass just because I have heard of it)
I do drink a lot of bad wines in the process.
My sister-in-law told me once that any meal that you fall in love with
at Willi's will never be on their menu again. That is the kind of
discovery that I love.


Max Hauser wrote:
> Wow. I've done many US tasting menus in recent years at restaurants with
> good gastronomic reputation -- it's a good introduction to a new restaurant.
> My experiences most often resembled cwdjrxyz's "one tasting menu ... that I
> thought was done right." It's a growing format at independent US
> restaurants that reach high and want to show what they can do. In fact, if
> you visit a restaurant with evidence of skill and spark in the kitchen, and
> the menu listing is purely à la carte, it can be very effective to ask the
> kitchen just to "bring us a few things." Explain you're new to the place,
> and would like to know their cooking. This has led to some amazing
> courses -- kitchens resonate, there's nothing that good cooks like better
> than the customers who give them space to show their art, and who appreciate
> it. (Rather than, for instance, demanding the kitchen to conform to some
> preconception, whatever it is.) I have heard this stated more often by
> cooks than customers.
>
> Wine pairings also are increasingly offered with tasting menus. It's a
> little more work for the wine service (I was just talking to a wine director
> about exactly that subject) because of a new wine for every course.
> However, it allows insightful pairings by people who know the food better
> than anyone else. It has the advantage for the restaurant of predicting
> some of the demand, and likewise less risk of opening a fresh bottle for a
> single per-glass pour and wasting the rest of it. Like Mark, I don't always
> choose wine pairings if there's some particular alternative, but I notice
> that they can work well.
>
>
>

I would like to make a correction for the record here.

My main issue at French Laundry was not the food as it was spectacular but
it was the pricing of wine.

While expensive I did not realize that the wine had wine service included.
I know the food did. If you considered a 15-20% amount it really was NOT
that different than other places.

I felt I needed to correct the record.

That said, I did not know that when I left an additional gratuity that night
and have no issue as it was the absolute best service I have ever had.

Please accept the correction.
"Richard Neidich" > wrote in message
...
> Ate at French Laundry Yountville last week. First, was it the best dinner
> ever. Actually not in my opinion. Was it a great evening? Yes, without a
> doubt.
>
> Not really sure if expectations were to high but the food was outstanding,
> the wine excellent. Service GREAT! In addition to the 9 courses were
> several tidbits that the kitchen kept sending out. So why not the best
> meal ever? Honestly I am not sure. Perhaps the absurd pricing--no, that
> is just money. I think it was one course. There was choice of a Pork
> Belly Preparation that was couse number 4 or a Coeur De Veau Confit which
> is Veal Hearts. I basically was sliced thin like a pastrami and was
> cured. While the taste was very nice I just never heard of eating Veal
> Hearts. I love Sweatbreads, Foie Gras etc...but Veal Hearts I had to try
> and cannot complain...would never order on a regular menu anywhere
> however.
>
> The stars of the night was the first course Oysters and Pearls which they
> serve every night. That is the only staple on the menu. Sabayon of
> pearls tapioca with beau soleil oysters and white sturgeon caviar. Pairs
> with a Gommonet Blanc du Blanc for one and I had the Laurent Perrier Grand
> Siecle. While small it got the mouth watering...truly outstanding.
>
> The Foie Gras course was excellent. Best presentation ever and we paired
> a Raymond Lafon Sauterns.1999 By the glass. We actually split a glass
> between us on this course.
>
> The next few couses we paired with a 1/2 bottle of Javalier Meursault Les
> Tillits 2004, Saute Barramundi or Carpaccio of Atlantic Fluke. I had the
> Fluke..very good. so was the other.
>
> Next was the Sweet Butter Poached Maine Lobster with same Meursault.
> Incredible.
>
> Next was the Pork belly or veal heart. Meursault for the Pork Belly, I
> had a glass of a Burgundy, Name escapes me. Nice!!!
>
> We tried a wine called Modicum 2002 for French Laudry. It was a Cabernet.
> Their house wine. Not impressive. To high of Alcohol. But I have to
> admit when the food came which was a hybrid of Kobe Beef with a black
> angus it paired well. Would select a different wine next time if ever.
>
> No wine after that.. we were stuffed. They had to give is a to go for all
> the cookies and chocolates that followed dessert. Oh yeah there was a
> cheese course as well.
>
> If anyone decides to go there...don't eat for 2 days in advance...to much
> food.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>