Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D

So...I am wondering what would be people's picks for relatively
inexpensive wines that would betray "wine savvyness" and should
impress the sophisticated female. Let me stipulate that I'm not the
sort of person that misrepresents himself. I tell people that I'm a
novice in wine but that "such and such" wine came highly recommended
by "so and so". I feel that honesty is always the best policy when it
comes to human relations.

Anyway, specifically, what would be people's following lists:

1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
seem to produce "good" wines)

Additionally I gladly welcome any dissent from others on people's
picks as well as defense from those dissents. I realize taste in wine
is very subjective. Ideally I'd like to guage wines from the
consensus here on this message board.

I apologize if this sort of question has been asked a billion times
before but...it's Friday night and, as usual, I don't have a date so I
have plenty of spare time on my hands. )

To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
following vineyards:

Robert Mondavi
Kendall-Jackson
Francis Coppola
Sterling
Kenwood
Beringer
Penfolds

Perhaps others out there may wish to give your reactions to the
vineyards on this list.

Thank you,

Gary

Gary Childress wrote:

>
> 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)

Gary, the problem here is that the term "best" has as little meaning as
it would do with music ("What is the best music CD for under $20?"):
personal taste is such a large variable that at best we can talk about
our favorite wines of a given type. Coincidentally (I hope) another
recent thread there ("Best California wines") covers this same
territory. You should check it out if you haven't already.


> 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
> seem to produce "good" wines)

Most of the above comments apply here, too. *My* list of producers of
perenially intersting wines would be (in no particular order):

Ridge Vineyards
Edmunds St. John
J.-P. Brun "Domaine de la Terre Dorees"
Trimbach
Joseph Drouhin

That list would probably not be duplicated by any other poster to this
group, BTW. Those producers also make at least some wines that sell
below the $30 mark.

> To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> following vineyards:
>
> Robert Mondavi
> Kendall-Jackson
> Francis Coppola
> Sterling
> Kenwood
> Beringer
> Penfolds

All of those wineries produce well made wine. I haven't tried any of
Mondavi's since their sale to Constellation, but I expect that the
winemaking hasn't changed much. Since you like those wines, why not
serve them? You can then in all honesty explain why you find them
appealing. And perhaps try exploring other wines from their range if
you haven't already done so. For instance, perhaps try a bottle of
Penfolds's Bin 28 "Kalimna" Shiraz, which sells for ca. $18 and is a
very nice Aussie Shiraz to my tastes. Also, once you go above the $30
level, all of these producers make some very high quality wines that
garner critical acclaim. In my experience, however, even a wine-savvy
date is likely to appreciate the gesture of you serving a wine that you
like, even if they don't precisely share your tastes.

Enjoy!
Mark Lipton

>
>Robert Mondavi
>Kendall-Jackson
>Francis Coppola
>Sterling
>Kenwood
>Beringer
>Penfolds
>


I think you have found at least 6 of the largest 10 wine producing
company. they also have the largest promotion budgets in the wine
world. only gallo and the lindemans groups comes to mind to be added
to your selection

maybe marlboro, coke, and bmw should also be added to make the 10

Gary Childress wrote:

> To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> following vineyards:
>
> Robert Mondavi
> Kendall-Jackson
> Francis Coppola
> Sterling
> Kenwood
> Beringer
> Penfolds

While all of those produce decent wines the only one that would make my
list would be Penfolds. They just do not produce any bad wines.

Kendall Jackson at one time was one of my favorites for low priced
Chardonnay. When Jed Steele left to start his own ventures I felt the
quality went downhill and prices went up. My current low priced
favorite Chardonnay is Columbia Crest Estate at about $8 from Costco.

Mondavi is over priced and over rated. While some of their high end
wines are excellent they are simply priced too far above so many other
great wines.

In the sub-$30 area my favorites aren't as widely distributed as your
list but some are available.

Opolo
Selby
Sehgasio
Karly
Babcock
Seqouia Grove
Story

On Mar 31, 12:52 am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
>
> > 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
>
> Gary, the problem here is that the term "best" has as little meaning as
> it would do with music ("What is the best music CD for under $20?"):
> personal taste is such a large variable that at best we can talk about
> our favorite wines of a given type. Coincidentally (I hope) another
> recent thread there ("Best California wines") covers this same
> territory. You should check it out if you haven't already.
>
> > 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
> > seem to produce "good" wines)
>
> Most of the above comments apply here, too. *My* list of producers of
> perenially intersting wines would be (in no particular order):
>
> Ridge Vineyards
> Edmunds St. John
> J.-P. Brun "Domaine de la Terre Dorees"
> Trimbach
> Joseph Drouhin
>
> That list would probably not be duplicated by any other poster to this
> group, BTW. Those producers also make at least some wines that sell
> below the $30 mark.
>
> > To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> > following vineyards:
>
> > Robert Mondavi
> > Kendall-Jackson
> > Francis Coppola
> > Sterling
> > Kenwood
> > Beringer
> > Penfolds
>
> All of those wineries produce well made wine. I haven't tried any of
> Mondavi's since their sale to Constellation, but I expect that the
> winemaking hasn't changed much. Since you like those wines, why not
> serve them? You can then in all honesty explain why you find them
> appealing. And perhaps try exploring other wines from their range if
> you haven't already done so. For instance, perhaps try a bottle of
> Penfolds's Bin 28 "Kalimna" Shiraz, which sells for ca. $18 and is a
> very nice Aussie Shiraz to my tastes. Also, once you go above the $30
> level, all of these producers make some very high quality wines that
> garner critical acclaim. In my experience, however, even a wine-savvy
> date is likely to appreciate the gesture of you serving a wine that you
> like, even if they don't precisely share your tastes.
>
> Enjoy!
> Mark Lipton

Thank you for the list. I'll have to try Ridge Vineyards. I know
they have made some critically acclaimed wines which have made "top
100" lists I've looked at. They look pretty expensive, however.

On Mar 31, 10:09 am, miles > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
> > To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> > following vineyards:
>
> > Robert Mondavi
> > Kendall-Jackson
> > Francis Coppola
> > Sterling
> > Kenwood
> > Beringer
> > Penfolds
>
> While all of those produce decent wines the only one that would make my
> list would be Penfolds. They just do not produce any bad wines.
>
> Kendall Jackson at one time was one of my favorites for low priced
> Chardonnay. When Jed Steele left to start his own ventures I felt the
> quality went downhill and prices went up. My current low priced
> favorite Chardonnay is Columbia Crest Estate at about $8 from Costco.
>
> Mondavi is over priced and over rated. While some of their high end
> wines are excellent they are simply priced too far above so many other
> great wines.
>
> In the sub-$30 area my favorites aren't as widely distributed as your
> list but some are available.
>
> Opolo
> Selby
> Sehgasio
> Karly
> Babcock
> Seqouia Grove
> Story

I am curious, how would you rate Costco as a place to shop for wine?
As I say I don't know much about wine but on the face of it they look
like they stock a lot of "high end" brands. I shop there for a lot of
other things.

On 31 Mar 2007 08:15:14 -0700, "Gary Childress" >
wrote:

>On Mar 31, 12:52 am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
>> Gary Childress wrote:
>>
>> > 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
>>
As already pointed out, a lot depends upon where and when you ask the
question. Still more depends upon what you like. Whites, reds, dry,
sweeter, US or Europe or Down Under, big city or small, etc. etc.

Almost by default, you get to a list of major producers and
mass-marketed products.
>>
>> > 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
>> > seem to produce "good" wines)

Some that seem to consistently work for me a

Sterling--available everywhere, even my local grocery stores.
Fife--available only when I really search, but almost always good.
Renwood--zinfandels to die for, in a range of prices, but usually
under $30.
Ridge--all good, but not always available under the $$ limit.
Becker--I live in Texas, and just found this quality TX producer!
Justin--worth searching for.
Andrew Rich--Oregon Pinot Noirs
Ch. Ste Michelle--ubiquitous
Penfold


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Gary Childress" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
> have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
>
A couple I like in that price range would be

Chateau Batailley - Grande Cru Classe from Pauliac
Lemelson Vineyards - Cuvee X Pino
Sadler-Wells - Pino good with pork

If you want to step it up a bit to to the $50-80, you might try

Franciscan Vineyard - Maginicat
Joseph Phelps - cab
Stag's Leap artemis (note that is stag's leap and not stags' leap)
Poggio Antico- brunello


Of course you have to double these prices in a restaurant.

You might want to get a copy of Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia. I found it to
be most informative about wine in general and some of there specific
recommendations. However, as others have mentioned, taste is an opinion, not
a fact. Even still, many wines are just plain bad to everyone.

Mike

On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Gary Childress" > wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting.


Good. That's as it should be. Wine is for drinking with meals, not for
tasting. Wines that mat 'taste' good in isolation are not necessarily
good companions to meals.

> I have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D

Just a tip: Amarone. It's Italian and sounds like 'amore', but the
word 'amaro' actually means 'bitter'. Amarone is, however, anything
but bitter. Amarone is a deliciously intense wine (typically 14.5%-15%
alcohol) that is sure to go straight to her head--and heart.

> So...I am wondering what would be people's picks for relatively
> inexpensive wines that would betray "wine savvyness" and should
> impress the sophisticated female.

Argiolas wines from Sardinia are inexpensive and of fanstastic
quality. Another wine that might interest you is called 'Fourplay',
which is a blend of four Sicilian grapes.

http://www.enjoy.fourplay.it/

> Let me stipulate that I'm not the
> sort of person that misrepresents himself. I tell people that I'm a
> novice in wine but that "such and such" wine came highly recommended
> by "so and so". I feel that honesty is always the best policy when it
> comes to human relations.

Good.
>
> Anyway, specifically, what would be people's following lists:
>
> 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
> 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
> seem to produce "good" wines)
>
> Additionally I gladly welcome any dissent from others on people's
> picks as well as defense from those dissents. I realize taste in wine
> is very subjective. Ideally I'd like to guage wines from the
> consensus here on this message board.
>
> I apologize if this sort of question has been asked a billion times
> before but...it's Friday night and, as usual, I don't have a date so I
> have plenty of spare time on my hands. )
>
> To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> following vineyards:
>
> Robert Mondavi
> Kendall-Jackson
> Francis Coppola
> Sterling
> Kenwood
> Beringer
> Penfolds
>
> Perhaps others out there may wish to give your reactions to the
> vineyards on this list.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Gary


Taurasi Radici (Riserva and non-Riserva, Mastroberardino)
Avulisi, Nivuro, and the other Santa Tresa wines from Sicily
Aglianico del Vulture (D'Angelo, Paternoster)
Il Falcone (Rivera)
Velletri (You already got this in for me. Thanks!)
Regaleali Nero d'Avola (Sicily)
De Vite (white from Hofstätter, of Trentino-Alto Adige)
Rocca Rubia Carignano di Sardegna (Santadi)
Dolcetto di Dogliani (Chionetti)
Dolcetto d'Alba Colombè (Renato Ratti)
Valtellina (Lombardia)
Barbera (by Bruno Giacosa or Guasti Clemente or Elio Altare)
Copertino
Patriglione (Taurino)
Primitivo (Carparelli)
Ramitello
Rubesco (Lungarotti)
Amarone
Morellino di Scansano (not the cheap stuff, the good stuff: Poliziano
Morellino di Scansano Lohsa)
Orvieto Classico (Barbarini)
Fourplay.
Sella & Mosca and Argiolas wines (Monica di Sardegna, Cannonou,
Vermentino, etc.)
Copertino, Notarpanaro & Salice Salentino (Negro Amaro wines)
Primitivo from Puglia or wherever else it is made
Sicilian whites (Grillo & Insolia from Cusumano, etc.)

On Mar 31, 11:55 am, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2007 08:15:14 -0700, "Gary Childress" >
> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 31, 12:52 am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> >> Gary Childress wrote:
>
> >> > 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
>
> As already pointed out, a lot depends upon where and when you ask the
> question. Still more depends upon what you like. Whites, reds, dry,
> sweeter, US or Europe or Down Under, big city or small, etc. etc.
>
> Almost by default, you get to a list of major producers and
> mass-marketed products.
>
>
>
> >> > 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
> >> > seem to produce "good" wines)
>
> Some that seem to consistently work for me a
>
> Sterling--available everywhere, even my local grocery stores.
> Fife--available only when I really search, but almost always good.
> Renwood--zinfandels to die for, in a range of prices, but usually
> under $30.
> Ridge--all good, but not always available under the $$ limit.
> Becker--I live in Texas, and just found this quality TX producer!
> Justin--worth searching for.
> Andrew Rich--Oregon Pinot Noirs
> Ch. Ste Michelle--ubiquitous
> Penfold
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

I have a bottle of Sterling Chardonnay. Ridge and Penfolds are next
on my list of wines to get, that is if I can ever find a good one that
is relatively inexpensive. I went to Costco today and purchased a
bottle of Kendall-Jackson Grand Reserve 2004 for $16 and a bottle of
d'Arenberg 2005 Laughing Magpie Shiraz Viognier for $22.

This wine collecting business is pretty neat. It reminds me of my
days collecting baseball cards! :-)

On Mar 31, 12:56 pm, "UC" > wrote:
> On Mar 30, 10:40 pm, "Gary Childress" > wrote:
>
> > Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> > soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> > names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting.
>
> Good. That's as it should be. Wine is for drinking with meals, not for
> tasting. Wines that mat 'taste' good in isolation are not necessarily
> good companions to meals.
>
> > I have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> > sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> > than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
>
> Just a tip: Amarone. It's Italian and sounds like 'amore', but the
> word 'amaro' actually means 'bitter'. Amarone is, however, anything
> but bitter. Amarone is a deliciously intense wine (typically 14.5%-15%
> alcohol) that is sure to go straight to her head--and heart.
>
> > So...I am wondering what would be people's picks for relatively
> > inexpensive wines that would betray "wine savvyness" and should
> > impress the sophisticated female.
>
> Argiolas wines from Sardinia are inexpensive and of fanstastic
> quality. Another wine that might interest you is called 'Fourplay',
> which is a blend of four Sicilian grapes.
>
> http://www.enjoy.fourplay.it/
>
> > Let me stipulate that I'm not the
> > sort of person that misrepresents himself. I tell people that I'm a
> > novice in wine but that "such and such" wine came highly recommended
> > by "so and so". I feel that honesty is always the best policy when it
> > comes to human relations.
>
> Good.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anyway, specifically, what would be people's following lists:
>
> > 1. Top 10 wines for under $30 (Best wine for the best value)
> > 2. Top 5-10 "Can't miss" Vineyards/Brands (Vineyards that consistently
> > seem to produce "good" wines)
>
> > Additionally I gladly welcome any dissent from others on people's
> > picks as well as defense from those dissents. I realize taste in wine
> > is very subjective. Ideally I'd like to guage wines from the
> > consensus here on this message board.
>
> > I apologize if this sort of question has been asked a billion times
> > before but...it's Friday night and, as usual, I don't have a date so I
> > have plenty of spare time on my hands. )
>
> > To start, when I think of good but inexpensive wine I think of the
> > following vineyards:
>
> > Robert Mondavi
> > Kendall-Jackson
> > Francis Coppola
> > Sterling
> > Kenwood
> > Beringer
> > Penfolds
>
> > Perhaps others out there may wish to give your reactions to the
> > vineyards on this list.
>
> > Thank you,
>
> > Gary
>
> Taurasi Radici (Riserva and non-Riserva, Mastroberardino)
> Avulisi, Nivuro, and the other Santa Tresa wines from Sicily
> Aglianico del Vulture (D'Angelo, Paternoster)
> Il Falcone (Rivera)
> Velletri (You already got this in for me. Thanks!)
> Regaleali Nero d'Avola (Sicily)
> De Vite (white from Hofstätter, of Trentino-Alto Adige)
> Rocca Rubia Carignano di Sardegna (Santadi)
> Dolcetto di Dogliani (Chionetti)
> Dolcetto d'Alba Colombè (Renato Ratti)
> Valtellina (Lombardia)
> Barbera (by Bruno Giacosa or Guasti Clemente or Elio Altare)
> Copertino
> Patriglione (Taurino)
> Primitivo (Carparelli)
> Ramitello
> Rubesco (Lungarotti)
> Amarone
> Morellino di Scansano (not the cheap stuff, the good stuff: Poliziano
> Morellino di Scansano Lohsa)
> Orvieto Classico (Barbarini)
> Fourplay.
> Sella & Mosca and Argiolas wines (Monica di Sardegna, Cannonou,
> Vermentino, etc.)
> Copertino, Notarpanaro & Salice Salentino (Negro Amaro wines)
> Primitivo from Puglia or wherever else it is made
> Sicilian whites (Grillo & Insolia from Cusumano, etc.)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't think I've never tried any wines from Italy. I'll have to
keep this list in mind. Thanks.

On Mar 31, 12:34 pm, "vMike"
> wrote:
> "Gary Childress" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...> Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> > soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> > names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
> > have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> > sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> > than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
>
> A couple I like in that price range would be
>
> Chateau Batailley - Grande Cru Classe from Pauliac
> Lemelson Vineyards - Cuvee X Pino
> Sadler-Wells - Pino good with pork
>
> If you want to step it up a bit to to the $50-80, you might try
>
> Franciscan Vineyard - Maginicat
> Joseph Phelps - cab
> Stag's Leap artemis (note that is stag's leap and not stags' leap)
> Poggio Antico- brunello
>
> Of course you have to double these prices in a restaurant.
>
> You might want to get a copy of Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia. I found it to
> be most informative about wine in general and some of there specific
> recommendations. However, as others have mentioned, taste is an opinion, not
> a fact. Even still, many wines are just plain bad to everyone.
>
> Mike

At Costco today I saw some Franciscan wines and also Stag's Leap. I
can't remember which ones, however. Franciscan seems to be a pretty
popular vineyard. I'll have to try it also.

Also, they had Kim Crawford 2006 Chardonnay which has gotten some good
reviews. I almost got it but changed my mind in favor of the Kendall-
Jackson Grand Reserve Chardonnay instead. I probably should have
gotten the Kim Crawford, it received higher reviews than the K-J.

On Mar 31, 6:06 pm, "Gary Childress" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 12:34 pm, "vMike"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > "Gary Childress" > wrote in message
>
> roups.com...> Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> > > soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> > > names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
> > > have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> > > sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> > > than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
>
> > A couple I like in that price range would be
>
> > Chateau Batailley - Grande Cru Classe from Pauliac
> > Lemelson Vineyards - Cuvee X Pino
> > Sadler-Wells - Pino good with pork
>
> > If you want to step it up a bit to to the $50-80, you might try
>
> > Franciscan Vineyard - Maginicat
> > Joseph Phelps - cab
> > Stag's Leap artemis (note that is stag's leap and not stags' leap)
> > Poggio Antico- brunello
>
> > Of course you have to double these prices in a restaurant.
>
> > You might want to get a copy of Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia. I found it to
> > be most informative about wine in general and some of there specific
> > recommendations. However, as others have mentioned, taste is an opinion, not
> > a fact. Even still, many wines are just plain bad to everyone.
>
> > Mike
>
> At Costco today I saw some Franciscan wines and also Stag's Leap. I
> can't remember which ones, however. Franciscan seems to be a pretty
> popular vineyard. I'll have to try it also.
>
> Also, they had Kim Crawford 2006 Chardonnay which has gotten some good
> reviews. I almost got it but changed my mind in favor of the Kendall-
> Jackson Grand Reserve Chardonnay instead. I probably should have
> gotten the Kim Crawford, it received higher reviews than the K-J.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I wonder what the difference in price is of a $20 bottle of wine
bought at Costco vs. a wine store.
I can't find much I like at Costco -- too bad for me -- but I did try
all of their Kirkland wines that I could find. Some not tasted yet.
Three I would not buy seconds.

Let me know if you buy Stag's Leap and when you taste Sterling, if
you have not tasted them before; interested to know.
Dee Dee

Gary Childress wrote:

> I am curious, how would you rate Costco as a place to shop for wine?
> As I say I don't know much about wine but on the face of it they look
> like they stock a lot of "high end" brands. I shop there for a lot of
> other things.

Costco selection varies widely depending on location. In upscale parts
of town the selection will be far greater. In the areas I've shopped
their prices are far below most any other wine store. A typical $25
bottle in a grocery store will be about $15 at Costco.

The Costco's around me have large selections of wines from low end jug
wines all the way up to very high end wines (over $100). The have two
sections. First is the low end wines usually stacked up in cardboard
boxes. Second is 1-4 rows of displayed wines on wood racks. These are
moderate to high end wines.

UC wrote:

> Good. That's as it should be. Wine is for drinking with meals, not for
> tasting. Wines that mat 'taste' good in isolation are not necessarily
> good companions to meals.

Quit confusing newbies!! Why do you have such trouble comprehending
that people such as myself fully enjoy sipping on a big red during the
evening before or after dinner? Good thing your way isn't traditional
or the wine bars would go out of business!

Dee Dee wrote:

> I wonder what the difference in price is of a $20 bottle of wine
> bought at Costco vs. a wine store.

If Costco has something for $20 it would be $30+ at a typical wine store
at least in my area.

> I can't find much I like at Costco -- too bad for me

What wines do you enjoy the most? The Costco's in my area have some
excellent wines. A little of everything. They dont have my favorites
but then neither do most wine stores.

On Mar 31, 7:49 pm, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 6:06 pm, "Gary Childress" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 12:34 pm, "vMike"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > "Gary Childress" > wrote in message
>
> > roups.com...> Hi, I'm new to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> > > > soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> > > > names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
> > > > have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> > > > sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> > > > than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
>
> > > A couple I like in that price range would be
>
> > > Chateau Batailley - Grande Cru Classe from Pauliac
> > > Lemelson Vineyards - Cuvee X Pino
> > > Sadler-Wells - Pino good with pork
>
> > > If you want to step it up a bit to to the $50-80, you might try
>
> > > Franciscan Vineyard - Maginicat
> > > Joseph Phelps - cab
> > > Stag's Leap artemis (note that is stag's leap and not stags' leap)
> > > Poggio Antico- brunello
>
> > > Of course you have to double these prices in a restaurant.
>
> > > You might want to get a copy of Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia. I found it to
> > > be most informative about wine in general and some of there specific
> > > recommendations. However, as others have mentioned, taste is an opinion, not
> > > a fact. Even still, many wines are just plain bad to everyone.
>
> > > Mike
>
> > At Costco today I saw some Franciscan wines and also Stag's Leap. I
> > can't remember which ones, however. Franciscan seems to be a pretty
> > popular vineyard. I'll have to try it also.
>
> > Also, they had Kim Crawford 2006 Chardonnay which has gotten some good
> > reviews. I almost got it but changed my mind in favor of the Kendall-
> > Jackson Grand Reserve Chardonnay instead. I probably should have
> > gotten the Kim Crawford, it received higher reviews than the K-J.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I wonder what the difference in price is of a $20 bottle of wine
> bought at Costco vs. a wine store.
> I can't find much I like at Costco -- too bad for me -- but I did try
> all of their Kirkland wines that I could find. Some not tasted yet.
> Three I would not buy seconds.
>
> Let me know if you buy Stag's Leap and when you taste Sterling, if
> you have not tasted them before; interested to know.
> Dee Dee- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
in the forum maybe that is a difference?

I'll let you know about the Sterling. I plan on taking it to friends'
for Easter Dinner next Sunday. :-)

On Mar 31, 8:27 pm, miles > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
> > I am curious, how would you rate Costco as a place to shop for wine?
> > As I say I don't know much about wine but on the face of it they look
> > like they stock a lot of "high end" brands. I shop there for a lot of
> > other things.
>
> Costco selection varies widely depending on location. In upscale parts
> of town the selection will be far greater. In the areas I've shopped
> their prices are far below most any other wine store. A typical $25
> bottle in a grocery store will be about $15 at Costco.
>
> The Costco's around me have large selections of wines from low end jug
> wines all the way up to very high end wines (over $100). The have two
> sections. First is the low end wines usually stacked up in cardboard
> boxes. Second is 1-4 rows of displayed wines on wood racks. These are
> moderate to high end wines.

I noticed the price difference today at the store versus purchasing
the same wines over the Internet. I pulled up Wine.com on my Pocket
PC while I was in Costco and noticed a considerable savings. I think
I also saw a bottle of the same Sterling Chardonnay which I bought the
day before at a gourmet store for almost half the price. Now I know
better. :-(

Gary Childress wrote:

>
> I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
> facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
> in the forum maybe that is a difference?
>
> I'll let you know about the Sterling. I plan on taking it to friends'
> for Easter Dinner next Sunday. :-)
>
Most wine sold at stores is for immediate consumption so the
"provenance" is not so important. Store wines are at least usually kept
near 70 or so degrees and don't get ig swings of temp which can really
rack a wine.

On Mar 31, 9:42 pm, Joseph Coulter > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
> > facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
> > in the forum maybe that is a difference?
>
> > I'll let you know about the Sterling. I plan on taking it to friends'
> > for Easter Dinner next Sunday. :-)
>
> Most wine sold at stores is for immediate consumption so the
> "provenance" is not so important. Store wines are at least usually kept
> near 70 or so degrees and don't get ig swings of temp which can really
> rack a wine.

I take it then that coolers are for long term storage and not so much
for a wine that is going to be consumed within a week or two? How
long will a wine typically keep on the counter before it's a good idea
to store it in a cooler?

Gary Childress wrote:

> I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
> facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
> in the forum maybe that is a difference?

Costco's storage is fine. All of the better wines are on their side
pointed down slightly. Their lower priced wines are just stacked in
boxes. However, Costco turns over its inventory very quickly, many
times that of a typical wine store. They don't need any other storage
methods.

Gary Childress wrote:

> I take it then that coolers are for long term storage and not so much
> for a wine that is going to be consumed within a week or two? How
> long will a wine typically keep on the counter before it's a good idea
> to store it in a cooler?

That depends on where you live. Here in the southwest deserts wine can
go bad if left out on a counter within a couple months. If you live in
more stable regions such as coastal California wine can be kept out for
many many months without trouble. Large temperature swings in a room
are what kill wine.

On Mar 31, 11:01 pm, miles > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
> > I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
> > facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
> > in the forum maybe that is a difference?
>
> Costco's storage is fine. All of the better wines are on their side
> pointed down slightly. Their lower priced wines are just stacked in
> boxes. However, Costco turns over its inventory very quickly, many
> times that of a typical wine store. They don't need any other storage
> methods.

Is it better to store wines on their side, pointed down slightly? If
so, what advantage does that have over storing them upright? Most
wine racks I've seen seem to tilt them slightly upside down. Is that
good or bad? Thanks.

On Mar 31, 9:01 pm, miles > wrote:

>
> > I can't find much I like at Costco -- too bad for me
>
> What wines do you enjoy the most? The Costco's in my area have some
> excellent wines. A little of everything. They dont have my favorites
> but then neither do most wine stores.


Looking back over the year and a half of what I bought at Costco, it
looks like I bought a 4 bottles of Kirkland Tawny Port, a Ruffino, a
Melini chianti , 2 Kirkland Paulliacs, 1 Kirkland Champagne, 1
Kirkland Merlot, 1 Kirkland Pinot Noir; a Rioja, a Graham port wine; a
Kirkland Cabernet; 2 Banfi, 2 Kirkland Tuscany; looking for a Kirkland
Chateauneuf de Pape (couldn't find - waiting) DaVinci (cheap and
horrible) Coppola (horrible) Pinot Grigo Trentino (not good); Marchesi
di Barolo Barbera d'Alba; maybe more wines, I don't remember. I'll
pick up something and forget to write it down, but so far I'm looking
for Sauvion Blanc and de Pape sold by Kirkland, but I think I missed
them.

Dee

On Mar 31, 11:07 pm, miles > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
> > I take it then that coolers are for long term storage and not so much
> > for a wine that is going to be consumed within a week or two? How
> > long will a wine typically keep on the counter before it's a good idea
> > to store it in a cooler?
>
> That depends on where you live. Here in the southwest deserts wine can
> go bad if left out on a counter within a couple months. If you live in
> more stable regions such as coastal California wine can be kept out for
> many many months without trouble. Large temperature swings in a room
> are what kill wine.

Don't some wines have specific "ideal" storage temperatures or
something like that though? I've noticed that a few wine coolers have
separate temperature compartments. It sounds like there are actually
"ideal" temperatures for different wines? Is that true?

Gary Childress wrote:

> Is it better to store wines on their side, pointed down slightly? If
> so, what advantage does that have over storing them upright? Most
> wine racks I've seen seem to tilt them slightly upside down. Is that
> good or bad? Thanks.

You want the cork to remain wet creating a better seal. If kept upright
the cork will dry out. I don't know about this with regards to
synthetic corks.

Dee Dee wrote:
> but so far I'm looking
> for Sauvion Blanc and de Pape sold by Kirkland, but I think I missed
> them.

I was wondering what wines you prefer but can't find at Costco.

For an inexpensive Sauvingnon Blanc try Murphy Good Reserve at Costco. I
believe Murphy Good uses the Fume Blanc name. Great wine at a low price.

Gary Childress wrote:

> Don't some wines have specific "ideal" storage temperatures or
> something like that though?

Yes, for long term storage and aging of wines. Basically the slower you
age a wine it's complexities become more apparent. The warmer the temp,
the faster it ages. I store my reds at 55 and whites closer to 50.
Generally most whites reach their peak sooner than reds but that depends
on the varietal and winery.

If you are not planning to keep wines more than a few months before
drinking then all you need is a stable temp. An interior closet away
from any heat source works good. However, in areas such as the
southwest deserts this wont work as interior temperatures arent very
stable in the summer and a wine cooler would be needed.

If you plan on keeping wines longer than a few months then a wine cooler
is recommended.

On 31 Mar 2007 14:49:04 -0700, "Gary Childress" >
wrote:


>I have a bottle of Sterling Chardonnay. Ridge and Penfolds are next
>on my list of wines to get, that is if I can ever find a good one that
>is relatively inexpensive. I went to Costco today and purchased a
>bottle of Kendall-Jackson Grand Reserve 2004 for $16 and a bottle of
>d'Arenberg 2005 Laughing Magpie Shiraz Viognier for $22.
>
>This wine collecting business is pretty neat. It reminds me of my
>days collecting baseball cards! :-)

Costco is a lot like Sam's Club--the selection depends on the local
store with different outlets offering different wines. I've found
Sam's in my area to have a lot of very nice wines at reasonable
prices. I've had the opportunity to try some low end wines that I
might have passed by in other places, but picked up because I've had
good luck with the choices of the local store.

I've also found some better wines that I wouldn't have tried because
of price, but at Sam's they were a bit more reasonable. The previously
mentioned Stag's Leap Artemis Cabernet was one.

Recently the local Sam's has had Cambria, La Crema and Chalone Pinot
Noir's at $16, $18 and $14 respectively.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

> I'm wondering if a wine store shouldn't have better wine storage
> facilities than Costco. As I've seen the topic of storage brought up
> in the forum maybe that is a difference?
>
> I'll let you know about the Sterling. I plan on taking it to friends'
> for Easter Dinner next Sunday. :-)
>
We don't have Costco were I am but I have bought the same wine and vintage
from different stores before and the bottles have had noticeable
differences. I can tell as soon as I uncork and sometimes before I uncork.
There will be a bit of wine that has leaked out of the bottle meaning air
has leaked in or the cork will be half colored from the wine instead of just
the tip (not always bad). I have times I have bought a case of assorted
wines from a liquor stores and 30% are marginal or bad. I should return them
but instead I just never go back.

Mike

On Mar 31, 8:39 pm, miles > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > Good. That's as it should be. Wine is for drinking with meals, not for
> > tasting. Wines that mat 'taste' good in isolation are not necessarily
> > good companions to meals.
>
> Quit confusing newbies!!

I'm trying to keep them from being confused by modernists!

> Why do you have such trouble comprehending
> that people such as myself fully enjoy sipping on a big red during the
> evening before or after dinner? Good thing your way isn't traditional
> or the wine bars would go out of business!

My way IS traditional!

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Recently the local Sam's has had Cambria, La Crema and Chalone Pinot
> Noir's at $16, $18 and $14 respectively.

Cambria is one of my favorite wineries. However, like most of the
California wineries their better wines are not distributed.

What they do distribute is mostly Julians or Kathryns Vineyard Pinots
and Chardonnay. While good wines they pale in comparison to their other
selections found only at the winery. This is what I said earlier that
most of the better California wines never make it to local stores around
the country.

Meridian in Paso Robles is another example. The only wines of theirs
found in stores nationwide are mass production low to mid range wines.
At the winery the only thing they taste is their small lot wines sold
only at the winery. Vastly better wines and most in the $15-$20 range.

UC wrote:

> I'm trying to keep them from being confused by modernists!

Modernists? Hardly but I also don't live in the dark ages of wine
snobbery with the belief that wine can only be enjoyed one and only one way.

> My way IS traditional!

Traditions aren't always a good thing. Often they fail to allow one to
expand their enjoyment. On the plus side I'd spend a lot less and drink
a lot less wine if I could only drink it with a meal. Oh wait, I
forgot, Italians drink wine with every meal including breakfast...BLECK!!!

On Apr 1, 9:58 am, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
> On 31 Mar 2007 14:49:04 -0700, "Gary Childress" >
> wrote:
>
> >I have a bottle of Sterling Chardonnay. Ridge and Penfolds are next
> >on my list of wines to get, that is if I can ever find a good one that
> >is relatively inexpensive. I went to Costco today and purchased a
> >bottle of Kendall-Jackson Grand Reserve 2004 for $16 and a bottle of
> >d'Arenberg 2005 Laughing Magpie Shiraz Viognier for $22.
>
> >This wine collecting business is pretty neat. It reminds me of my
> >days collecting baseball cards! :-)
>
> Costco is a lot like Sam's Club--the selection depends on the local
> store with different outlets offering different wines. I've found
> Sam's in my area to have a lot of very nice wines at reasonable
> prices. I've had the opportunity to try some low end wines that I
> might have passed by in other places, but picked up because I've had
> good luck with the choices of the local store.
>
> I've also found some better wines that I wouldn't have tried because
> of price, but at Sam's they were a bit more reasonable. The previously
> mentioned Stag's Leap Artemis Cabernet was one.
>
> Recently the local Sam's has had Cambria, La Crema and Chalone Pinot
> Noir's at $16, $18 and $14 respectively.
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

I found a couple other Costcos listed in my city. I may try them as
well and see if they have any different selctions from the one local
to me. My local Costco didn't have anything from Ridge and none of
the Penfolds selections were rated ones. :-(

Gary Childress wrote:

> I found a couple other Costcos listed in my city. I may try them as
> well and see if they have any different selctions from the one local
> to me. My local Costco didn't have anything from Ridge and none of
> the Penfolds selections were rated ones. :-(

You mean the Wine Spectator or Wine Advocate ratings Costco sometimes
displays? Most here will tell you those don't mean very much. Penfolds
does not make a bad wine. They're all good. Just depends on what you like.

In article . com>,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> On Mar 31, 6:06 pm, "Gary Childress" > wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 12:34 pm, "vMike"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > "Gary Childress" > wrote in message
> >
> > roups.com...> Hi, I'm new
> > >to this group and a novice when it comes to wine. I'm
> > > > soon to be 40 years old and a bachelor. I know a few vineyard/brand
> > > > names. I know next to nothing (if that much) about wine tasting. I
> > > > have little if any idea of what wine goes with what food, however,
> > > > sadly enough, I have little else with which to impress women other
> > > > than to display impeccable taste in wine! :-D
> >
> > > A couple I like in that price range would be
> >
> > > Chateau Batailley - Grande Cru Classe from Pauliac
> > > Lemelson Vineyards - Cuvee X Pino
> > > Sadler-Wells - Pino good with pork
> >
> > > If you want to step it up a bit to to the $50-80, you might try
> >
> > > Franciscan Vineyard - Maginicat
> > > Joseph Phelps - cab
> > > Stag's Leap artemis (note that is stag's leap and not stags' leap)
> > > Poggio Antico- brunello
> >
> > > Of course you have to double these prices in a restaurant.
> >
> > > You might want to get a copy of Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia. I found it
> > > to
> > > be most informative about wine in general and some of there specific
> > > recommendations. However, as others have mentioned, taste is an opinion,
> > > not
> > > a fact. Even still, many wines are just plain bad to everyone.
> >
> > > Mike
> >
> > At Costco today I saw some Franciscan wines and also Stag's Leap. I
> > can't remember which ones, however. Franciscan seems to be a pretty
> > popular vineyard. I'll have to try it also.
> >
> > Also, they had Kim Crawford 2006 Chardonnay which has gotten some good
> > reviews. I almost got it but changed my mind in favor of the Kendall-
> > Jackson Grand Reserve Chardonnay instead. I probably should have
> > gotten the Kim Crawford, it received higher reviews than the K-J.- Hide
> > quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I wonder what the difference in price is of a $20 bottle of wine
> bought at Costco vs. a wine store.
> I can't find much I like at Costco -- too bad for me -- but I did try
> all of their Kirkland wines that I could find. Some not tasted yet.
> Three I would not buy seconds.
>
> Let me know if you buy Stag's Leap and when you taste Sterling, if
> you have not tasted them before; interested to know.
> Dee Dee

Sterling has been way downhill since being bought by Coca Cola many
years age. The only thing I like about them is their tram ride. Last
time I was there I did taste a library wine of a 1978 Cab that was
excellent but that is long gone.

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> Sterling has been way downhill since being bought by Coca Cola many
> years age. The only thing I like about them is their tram ride.

Last time I was there was in the early 90's. I felt the tram was just a
gimmick. Never cared much for their wines. The tram was broken down
and they used a van up the road anyways.

On Apr 1, 4:11 pm, miles > wrote:
> Gary Childress wrote:
> > I found a couple other Costcos listed in my city. I may try them as
> > well and see if they have any different selctions from the one local
> > to me. My local Costco didn't have anything from Ridge and none of
> > the Penfolds selections were rated ones. :-(
>
> You mean the Wine Spectator or Wine Advocate ratings Costco sometimes
> displays? Most here will tell you those don't mean very much. Penfolds
> does not make a bad wine. They're all good. Just depends on what you like.

I don't mean to say that Penfolds makes any "bad" wines. There are a
lot of wines, including Penfolds, which I haven't tasted to know
whether I personally like them or not. I also don't consider myself
any kind of final word on whether a wine is "good" or "bad". My taste
buds are probably pretty ordinary and nothing to write home about when
it comes to wine. I'm sure there are those who can taste every little
influence in a wine. Me...my taste buds just tell me if I like it or
not, not whether there is a hint of blackberry in the wine.

I just think it is sort of neat to be able to tell a guest or someone
whom I am bringing a wine to dinner for that the wine is supposed to
be a highly regarded one by the "experts". That way, at the very
least, even if we end up not liking it, we can say, "We've tried it."
To me that counts for something even if a wine fails to please. To me
it's always nice to have the experience of tasting a somewhat renowned
wine. It's like going to a five star restaurant just once in life
just to be able to say "I've been there".

Perhaps as I get more experienced with wine I may be able to come up
with bottles I can personally recommend. But until that time I sort
of rely on the recommendations of others, including Wine Specatator
and Wine Advocate.

Gary Childress wrote:

> I just think it is sort of neat to be able to tell a guest or someone
> whom I am bringing a wine to dinner for that the wine is supposed to
> be a highly regarded one by the "experts". That way, at the very
> least, even if we end up not liking it, we can say, "We've tried it."
> To me that counts for something even if a wine fails to please. To me
> it's always nice to have the experience of tasting a somewhat renowned
> wine. It's like going to a five star restaurant just once in life
> just to be able to say "I've been there".

Anything at Costco thats in the wood display racks would compare to
wines rated at least in the mid 80's but most likely higher in my
opinion. Once you learn more about your tastes its quite likely you'll
love a wine thats rated 85 but dislike a wine of the same varietal thats
rated 95. Just a matter of desired styles.

The other problem is that once a wine gets a high rating its price
shoots through the roof. Thats where learning about wines and finding
the very good wines that are still affordable because they haven't been
rated and over advertised.

> he guy said the rack
> labels hadn't been changed yet, but they would GIVE it to me for what
> it said.

Did he emphasize the word "give"? If not, then I wouldn't give it a
secong thought.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.