"Mike Charlton" > wrote in message
news
> Hey Rick. This discussion is turning out pretty long. I've snipped it
> all in order to reorder things a bit. Hope that's OK. I've also changed
> the subject line. We seem to be getting off topic, so I'm hoping this
> will help us remember what we're talking about. Speaking of which...
>
> Man, you really seem to be angry. I mean, I think I've treated you
> with respect.
==============================
LOL Where have I been disrespectful? What I see here is the typical post
by a vegan that has gotten in over his head and is making the excuse to run.
You snip out all the info you say you're looking for, run to mommy crying
that the big bad bully is picking on you, and then claim that the other
person is closed-minded.
Calling vegan liars is not disrespectful, it's truthful. Right here on
another thread is an idiot claiming that the UK doesn't allow ANY pesticides
in organic farming.
How stupid do you have to be to make, or believe a statement like that?



snip of rest of whine....




> As you said in a previous email, it's not really diet that's important
> here...
======================
Just a note here, don't say email when you mean a usenet posting.


It's everything else as well -- It's climate change due to
> pollution from transportation. It's loss of habitat/migration routes
> due to roads and natural gas pipelines. Etc, etc, etc. That's why I
> think that it's less necessary to discuss what we're eating as opposed
> to where we're getting it from. Local produce is *really* important.
> Do you agree?
==================
Yes, and that is part of my point with vegans here. read the recipies that
they post. They include many imported, exotic fruits and veggies.



We'll just see how open you are to information...


Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm

http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm



http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html


organic
http://www.ontarioprofessionals.com/organic.htm


Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

>
> Mike
>
> P.S. Just trying to put a name to a face... Are you the Rick Etter that
> plays guitar for Jumping Conclusions?
==================
No, I had a brother that played in a group called Black Market Pop-Tarts.

They had to eventually drop the -tarts though...
>