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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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![]() "Rat & Swan" wrote Dutch wrote: "Rat & Swan" wrote I am saying the punishment or lack thereof is irrelevant to the morality of the action which is, or is not, punished. On top of all your other errors, that's false. Why? Are you saying that in a slave-holding society, slavery is moral? It's not relevent to this discussion whether or not animal cds is moral It invalidates Joanne's claim that an action must be punished for it to be immoral. That's not the point he is making, you're either dense or disingenuous, probably both. The fact that there are sanctions and punishment for actions that violate human rights validates our claims that we live in a society that respects human rights, despite the fact that human rights violations exist. Our participation in society is consistent with a belief in human rights *because of* those sanctions. Your belief in animal rights is not validated, in fact everything in reality, almost everything you do, IN-validates the claim Your token actions such as abstaining from meat, are not nearly enough to validate your claims. The punishment, or lack thereof, has NO relationship to the inherent morality of the act itself. Nobody said it did, that's not the point. The fact that there are punishments for human rights violations invalidates your tu quoque parallel. Your life does not validate the principle of animal rights, but your life DOES validate the principle of human rights. We say that your life does not respect animal rights, and your tu quoque response is that our lives do not respect human rights. That response is bogus for the above reasons. I don't know how to make this any clearer. |
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Rat & Swan wrote:
Dutch wrote: "Rat & Swan" wrote I am saying the punishment or lack thereof is irrelevant to the morality of the action which is, or is not, punished. On top of all your other errors, that's false. Why? Are you saying that in a slave-holding society, slavery is moral? It's not relevent to this discussion whether or not animal cds is moral It invalidates the claim that an action must be punished for it to be immoral. Strawman: That was never anyone's claim. The punishment, or lack thereof, has NO relationship to the inherent morality of the act itself. Prove it. There were societies which practiced slavery You are a slaveholder who claims slavery is immoral. |
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pearl cut-and-pasted:
... Streamlining is not the same as overturning laws or regulations, nor is it to set them aside. It is a matter of process. NOTE YOU INSIPID FOOL: *POTENTIAL* RESTRICTIONS, NOT CURRENT ONES. 'The proposed joint regulation will minimize the potential restriction of pesticides (with expert fish and wildlife scientists involved) by streamlining and clarifying the review process. ' Got it now, suspect? YOU don't get it, Chelsea. It doesn't and won't change existing laws or regulations. The Endangered Species Act will remain intact. It's just a reasonable measure that will streamline an overly bureaucratic process. 'Under the rule changes proposed by Bush Administration officials at NMFS and USFWS on January 30, 2004, the EPA would be given unilateral power to determine the risks of many pesticides to endangered species, shutting expert fish and wildlife scientists out of the process.' EPA has "expert fish and wildlife scientists" on the payroll, dummy. The cause of alarm is among ACTIVISTS, not scientists. Your ACTIVIST "news" source bears that out -- it is an activist site, not a science site. http://ga0.org/campaign/pesticide_pr...w5ssxs4vjx7i36 Why doesn't that leftist website allow access to their pages? I was redirected to a sign-up page. It calls the site "The Leader in Online Campaigns." '.. courts have ruled EPA's current pesticide review process does not legally comply with the ESA (Endangered Species Act). In the Pacific Northwest and California, the federal court has already severely limited the use of 38 pesticides. ...' http://www.msfb.com/news/frontpagest...deESAregs.html Great that you use a source that actually endorses the proposed change. From your second source: The proposed regulations helps to solve the problem because it…. Ø Creates a “joint” rule that will be used by the services when conducting consultations with other government agencies for the federal actions that require compliance with ESA. (In this case, the review and registration of a pesticide is the “action” and EPA is the “other agency.”) Ø Clarifies how FIFRA pesticide reviews will be completed in compliance with ESA and results in less litigation and more certainty for pesticide users. Ø Allows EPA to make the initial determination on a pesticide’s affect on protected species based on the Agency’s expertise and extensive ecological review. Ø Establishes that, so long as protocols are followed, the Services do not need further review in this form of interagency consultation – i.e. EPA determines that a pesticide is “likely to affect a species.” Explain how any of those will endanger anything except activists seeking leverage through delay tactics. You get it, Yes, and you clearly don't. This is another ploy used by activists -- NOT scientists -- to scare gullible people in a shameless exercise of promoting their extreme (and anti-capitalist) agenda. ... |
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Jonathan Ball wrote in message nk.net...
Rat & Swan wrote: Dutch wrote: "Rat & Swan" wrote I am saying the punishment or lack thereof is irrelevant to the morality of the action which is, or is not, punished. On top of all your other errors, that's false. Why? Are you saying that in a slave-holding society, slavery is moral? It's not relevent to this discussion whether or not animal cds is moral It invalidates the claim that an action must be punished for it to be immoral. Strawman: That was never anyone's claim. The punishment, or lack thereof, has NO relationship to the inherent morality of the act itself. Prove it. There were societies which practiced slavery You are a slaveholder who claims slavery is immoral. Ball, your chia pet wig needs watering. .. |
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Jonathan Ball wrote in message nk.net...
Rat & Swan wrote: Dutch wrote: "Rat & Swan" wrote I am saying the punishment or lack thereof is irrelevant to the morality of the action which is, or is not, punished. On top of all your other errors, that's false. Why? Are you saying that in a slave-holding society, slavery is moral? It's not relevent to this discussion whether or not animal cds is moral It invalidates the claim that an action must be punished for it to be immoral. Strawman: That was never anyone's claim. The punishment, or lack thereof, has NO relationship to the inherent morality of the act itself. Prove it. There were societies which practiced slavery You are a slaveholder who claims slavery is immoral. There you go Ball!!! Get yo'self a slave. No more beating your old lady and kid. You could have a real live bona fide slave to abuse.(make sure the slave is a female) |
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