Hello all.

I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"

There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
that the only way to get it is from meat.

So.... how do you guys deal with people who are hostile towards you
because you've decided to go vegan?

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all.
>
> I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
> around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"
>
> There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
> that the only way to get it is from meat.
>
> So.... how do you guys deal with people who are hostile towards you
> because you've decided to go vegan?

1. Don't flaunt it. You wouldn't want one of your friends who just joined a
new religion to tell you about it constantly
and find ways to bring it up in every conversation. If I live in Texas, I
wouldn't want someone from say, Indiana to harp
and harp about how they liked it better up north, how much they prefer
yankees to southerners, etc. In either case I might
just be angry enough to smack someone. So don't make a big issue out of it.
Keep your lifestyle, your lifestyle. Keep it low key
and don't try to convert others directly unless they're really open to it.
It's better to teach by example, if they get to know you
as a great person and find out a few years later that you're a vegan, then
they may think differently about vegans than they did before.

People on the Atkins diet don't have to go around tellinge everyone and
anyone that they're on Atkins, and you don't have to go
around telling anyone and everyone that you're a vegan.

2. If the people bothering you for being vegan are your friends, then
they're probably concerned for you. They're doing it because
they care. Their concerns are not entirely unfounded.While it is possible to
be nourished on a vegan diet, it's not necessarily easy,
and I've spoken to more than one vegan who had to quit because of an iron
deficiency. You need to take the time and save the money
to meet with a nutritionist, or at least your doctor, and discuss with them
how you can keep from developing deficiencies. This will be
good for you and it will also help your friends to be less concerned if they
know you're not just doing this on your own and got some
expert advice.

3. Older people aren't going to be convinced, usually. There are exceptions
to every rule, but this is one stereotype that is usually true.
They grew up believing meat was at the center of every balanced meal, and
they're not about to change their mind. They grew up
being taught that meat was where protein came from, milk was where calcium
came from, etc. There are some people who are so
set in their ways in that regard that they'll consider any deviation or
alternatives to be you starving yourself. Just try to understand that
they mean well and try not to take any of the jabs personally.

4. The people who really hate vegans for some reason or other you should try
to avoid if you can. If you set a good example to the ones you can't avoid
by
being nice to them when they're mean to you, turning the other cheek instead
of hurling insults back, etc. They may at some level see how silly they're
being.

-Rubystars

on the protein thing, there is protein in practically everything. oatmeal,
tofu, you name it. there just isn't necessarily complete protein in single
plant foods. to get enough protein, you've just got to try to eat some
grains and some legumes sometime in the same day, like with peanut butter on
whole grain toast, or soymilk on oatmeal, or lentils & rice, you get the
picture. it's not a difficult thing. how do people think that cows and
horses get so big from eating plants?
as for people who give you greif, just try not to let it get to you. stay
chill, and they'll come around if they can't get a reaction out of you. one
of the best things i've found to counterbalance the idiots is a good support
system. finding a vegan buddy to share your transition is great. also,
forums can be really supportive (like how this one would be, if it weren't
filled with anti-vegan sentiment). i find that the veganism board on
vegsource (www.vegsource.com) is a great source of support - folks go there
to ask questions about products & food, or to vent when they're dealing with
idiots, and get advice about stuff. also, the board's moderator, joanne
stepanik, writes a whole bunch of articles on vegan topics that i have found
really useful (you can get the archives through the veganism board) and
there's also a list of animal ingredients linked to from that page. the
whole site is great for recipes and all sorts of stuff (chef deb can get you
any recipe that you could dream of in short order) and the new veggies board
is also helpful. highly recommended for a non-hostile environment.


"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all.
>
> I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
> around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"
>
> There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
> that the only way to get it is from meat.
>
> So.... how do you guys deal with people who are hostile towards you
> because you've decided to go vegan?

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:24:49 GMT, "katie" >
wrote:

>on the protein thing, there is protein in practically everything. oatmeal,
>tofu, you name it. there just isn't necessarily complete protein in single
>plant foods. to get enough protein, you've just got to try to eat some
>grains and some legumes sometime in the same day, like with peanut butter on
>whole grain toast, or soymilk on oatmeal, or lentils & rice, you get the
>picture. it's not a difficult thing. how do people think that cows and
>horses get so big from eating plants?

*grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain if
I lost about 15 lbs. =)

>as for people who give you greif, just try not to let it get to you. stay

I don't. The people giving me grief are my friends. =) And they mean
well. I don't advertise that I'm now vegan. But with friends it's
hard for them not to notice. I've dropped cheese, milk, eggs, etc.
Those are MAJOR ingredients in just about everything on restauraunt
menus.

>vegsource (www.vegsource.com) is a great source of support - folks go there

Thanks for the link! I tried some of PETA's links but frankly there
was very little information on becoming vegan and a lot of information
on why everyone should become vegan.

-rb

(and yes, I have pet rats) =)

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
news
> Vegan animals (rats,

> (and yes, I have pet rats) =)

I kept domesticated rats as a kid. Unlike the hamsters we had, they
absolutely *never* bit. And unlike hamsters, they didn't die if I happened
to drop them. Much, much smarter than hamsters, I might add. And in a
steel-cage match between a rat and a hamster . . . well, let's just say the
rat went his entire career undefeated.

But don't think for a second that rats won't or don't eat meat, especially
in the wild.

"Karl Hungus" > wrote in message
newsty0c.90584$4o.114560@attbi_s52...
>
> "Rattyboy" > wrote in message
> news >
> > Vegan animals (rats,
>
> > (and yes, I have pet rats) =)
>
> I kept domesticated rats as a kid. Unlike the hamsters we had, they
> absolutely *never* bit. And unlike hamsters, they didn't die if I
happened
> to drop them. Much, much smarter than hamsters, I might add. And in a
> steel-cage match between a rat and a hamster . . . well, let's just say
the
> rat went his entire career undefeated.
>
> But don't think for a second that rats won't or don't eat meat, especially
> in the wild.

Rats will eat almost anything. I've even heard of rats eating soap.

-Rubystars

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:24:49 GMT, "katie" >
> wrote:
>
> >on the protein thing, there is protein in practically everything.
oatmeal,
> >tofu, you name it. there just isn't necessarily complete protein in
single
> >plant foods. to get enough protein, you've just got to try to eat some
> >grains and some legumes sometime in the same day, like with peanut butter
on
> >whole grain toast, or soymilk on oatmeal, or lentils & rice, you get the
> >picture. it's not a difficult thing. how do people think that cows and
> >horses get so big from eating plants?
>
> *grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
> rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
> their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain if
> I lost about 15 lbs. =)
==========================
That's because they were made to eat plants. You however can not get all
the nutrients you need fron plants alone.

>
> >as for people who give you greif, just try not to let it get to you.
stay
>
> I don't. The people giving me grief are my friends. =) And they mean
> well. I don't advertise that I'm now vegan. But with friends it's
> hard for them not to notice. I've dropped cheese, milk, eggs, etc.
> Those are MAJOR ingredients in just about everything on restauraunt
> menus.
>
> >vegsource (www.vegsource.com) is a great source of support - folks go
there
>
> Thanks for the link! I tried some of PETA's links but frankly there
> was very little information on becoming vegan and a lot of information
> on why everyone should become vegan.
>
> -rb
>
> (and yes, I have pet rats) =)

"Rubystars" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Karl Hungus" > wrote in message
> newsty0c.90584$4o.114560@attbi_s52...
> >
> > "Rattyboy" > wrote in message
> > news > >
> > > Vegan animals (rats,
> >
> > > (and yes, I have pet rats) =)
> >
> > I kept domesticated rats as a kid. Unlike the hamsters we had, they
> > absolutely *never* bit. And unlike hamsters, they didn't die if I
> happened
> > to drop them. Much, much smarter than hamsters, I might add. And in a
> > steel-cage match between a rat and a hamster . . . well, let's just say
> the
> > rat went his entire career undefeated.
> >
> > But don't think for a second that rats won't or don't eat meat,
especially
> > in the wild.
>
> Rats will eat almost anything. I've even heard of rats eating soap.


Well they sure as **** eat hamsters, but I think soap is a bit of a stretch.

"Karl Hungus" > wrote in message
news:6xz0c.153848$uV3.702865@attbi_s51...
>
> "Rubystars" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > "Karl Hungus" > wrote in message
> > newsty0c.90584$4o.114560@attbi_s52...
> > >
> > > "Rattyboy" > wrote in
message
> > > news > > >
> > > > Vegan animals (rats,
> > >
> > > > (and yes, I have pet rats) =)
> > >
> > > I kept domesticated rats as a kid. Unlike the hamsters we had, they
> > > absolutely *never* bit. And unlike hamsters, they didn't die if I
> > happened
> > > to drop them. Much, much smarter than hamsters, I might add. And in
a
> > > steel-cage match between a rat and a hamster . . . well, let's just
say
> > the
> > > rat went his entire career undefeated.
> > >
> > > But don't think for a second that rats won't or don't eat meat,
> especially
> > > in the wild.
> >
> > Rats will eat almost anything. I've even heard of rats eating soap.
>
>
> Well they sure as **** eat hamsters, but I think soap is a bit of a
stretch.

I don't know. It depends on if the soap was made from animal fat or not. I
bet they
could derive some nutrition from that.

-Rubystars

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 03:53:57 GMT, "Karl Hungus"
> wrote:

>
>"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
>news >
>> Vegan animals (rats,
>
>> (and yes, I have pet rats) =)
>
>I kept domesticated rats as a kid. Unlike the hamsters we had, they
>absolutely *never* bit. And unlike hamsters, they didn't die if I happened
>to drop them. Much, much smarter than hamsters, I might add. And in a
>steel-cage match between a rat and a hamster . . . well, let's just say the
>rat went his entire career undefeated.
>
>But don't think for a second that rats won't or don't eat meat, especially
>in the wild.
>

Oh, yea, they will. They aren't typically too predatory.

And yes, frighteningly intelligent animals. Mine have taught me to
feed them when they bark, to feed them when they hang their head over
a ledge in the cage, and to pick them up when they lay on their backs
and play dead.

The only trick I hate is the playing dead trick. They always have
that, "Uh huh! Gotcha!" look in their eyes when I go investigating a
rat with all four feet in the air.

My 3 boys never bite me either. Though sometimes with new foods
they'll try to take my finger with the food. For instance, peanut
butter is something they tend to get a tiny nibble on me with. They
don't snatch food ever though so I've never had even a pinch. It just
feels funny when rat teeth close over your finger.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 05:10:31 GMT, "Rubystars" >
wrote:


My rats have stolen things to try and eat later. They currently have
$2 that they aren't giving up. They will tip over a glass to get at
whatever is in it. This can make a mess at times. They are omnivores
and will eat pretty much anything. Including hamsters.

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:05:34 -0500, "rick etter"
> wrote:

>> *grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
>> rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
>> their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain if
>> I lost about 15 lbs. =)
>==========================
>That's because they were made to eat plants. You however can not get all
>the nutrients you need fron plants alone.

Is this a troll?

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:05:34 -0500, "rick etter"
> > wrote:
>
> >> *grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
> >> rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
> >> their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain if
> >> I lost about 15 lbs. =)
> >==========================
> >That's because they were made to eat plants. You however can not get all
> >the nutrients you need fron plants alone.
>
> Is this a troll?
=================
No, and I notice that you cannot refute it.

>

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:05:34 -0500, "rick etter"
> > wrote:
>
> >> *grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
> >> rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
> >> their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain if
> >> I lost about 15 lbs. =)
> >==========================
> >That's because they were made to eat plants. You however can not get all
> >the nutrients you need fron plants alone.
>
> Is this a troll?

No worse than that. He's a right tosser.

He's best ignored.

>

Impotence wrote:
> [no substance]

You never write any substance, GregGeorge

"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Impotence wrote:
> > [no substance]
>
> You never write any substance, GregGeorge

Try better bait baldy.

>

"Zakhar" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rattyboy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 00:05:34 -0500, "rick etter"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> *grin* that's exactly what I'll bring up. Vegan animals (rats,
> > >> rodents, cows, buffalo) get big eating just plants. That may quench
> > >> their fears of me starving to death. Actually I would not complain
if
> > >> I lost about 15 lbs. =)
> > >==========================
> > >That's because they were made to eat plants. You however can not get
all
> > >the nutrients you need fron plants alone.
> >
> > Is this a troll?
>
> No worse than that. He's a right tosser.
===============
Which you have yet to refute... What's that say about you, loser?




>
> He's best ignored.
===============
Sure, when you don't want to be bothered with reality and truth.


>
> >
>
>

katie wrote:

> on the protein thing, there is protein in practically everything. oatmeal,
> tofu, you name it. there just isn't necessarily complete protein in single
> plant foods. to get enough protein, you've just got to try to eat some
> grains and some legumes sometime in the same day, like with peanut butter on
> whole grain toast, or soymilk on oatmeal, or lentils & rice, you get the
> picture. it's not a difficult thing. how do people think that cows and
> horses get so big from eating plants?
> as for people who give you greif, just try not to let it get to you. stay
> chill, and they'll come around if they can't get a reaction out of you. one
> of the best things i've found to counterbalance the idiots is a good support
> system. finding a vegan buddy to share your transition is great. also,
> forums can be really supportive (like how this one would be, if it weren't
> filled with anti-vegan sentiment). i find that the veganism board on
> vegsource (www.vegsource.com) is a great source of support - folks go there
> to ask questions about products & food, or to vent when they're dealing with
> idiots, and get advice about stuff. also, the board's moderator, joanne
> stepanik, writes a whole bunch of articles on vegan topics that i have found
> really useful (you can get the archives through the veganism board) and
> there's also a list of animal ingredients linked to from that page. the
> whole site is great for recipes and all sorts of stuff (chef deb can get you
> any recipe that you could dream of in short order) and the new veggies board
> is also helpful. highly recommended for a non-hostile environment.
>
>
> "Rattyboy" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hello all.
>>
>>I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
>>around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"
>>
>>There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
>>that the only way to get it is from meat.
>>
>>So.... how do you guys deal with people who are hostile towards you
>>because you've decided to go vegan?
>
>
>
Plants form amino acids in the body. These amino acids are transformed
into a soluble protein.

--
www.ecornucopia.com - Mother Nature's Healing Foods

well... my first clue that morning was when the school lunch counter
lady shouted, "bains? nain't no mo bains"!!!

Rubystars wrote:
<...>
> I don't know. It depends on if the soap was made from animal fat or not. I
> bet they could derive some nutrition from that.

I don't think so. The chemical process which turns fat(s) plus alkalai into soap
pretty much makes any nutrient completely indistinguishable from the final
product. IOW, once chemical conversion from oil/fat and sodium hydroxide to soap
occurs, it's no longer oil/fat plus sodium hydroxide -- it's sodium tallowate
(if made from animal fat), period.

herbwormwood wrote:
<...>
> I believe that recent understanding has made it easier for informed vegans
> not to be iron deficient. We now know that to get iron from veggies we
> have to eat vitamin c with it.

That alone doesn't always help. Non-heme iron, which is found in plant foods,
binds with phytates, which are also abundant in plant foods, and prevent
absorption. I linked one study in either AFV or AAEV a few months ago that
showed consumption of a heme iron (meat; they used pork in the study) source
increased non-heme iron absorption MORE than non-heme plus vitamin C.

BTW, phytates also bind plant-based zinc. Zinc deficiency is also quite common
in vegans.

> We also now know that caffiene and
> nicotiene inhibit absorbtion of it.

So do phytates, even more so than caffeine or nicotine.

> Have a read of a good, recently published vegan nutrition book and watch
> what you eat, and you should be okay. Avoid junk food, it is very low in
> nutrition. There are lots of iron rich veggie foods, they will be listed
> in the books or on the internet.

Non-heme rich, not heme. The differences are pretty important, particularly
since phytates -- also in those "iron-rich veggie foods" -- bind the iron and
hinder absorption.

<...>

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Rubystars wrote:
> <...>
> > I don't know. It depends on if the soap was made from animal fat or not.
I
> > bet they could derive some nutrition from that.
>
> I don't think so. The chemical process which turns fat(s) plus alkalai
into soap
> pretty much makes any nutrient completely indistinguishable from the final
> product. IOW, once chemical conversion from oil/fat and sodium hydroxide
to soap
> occurs, it's no longer oil/fat plus sodium hydroxide -- it's sodium
tallowate
> (if made from animal fat), period.

Ok.

-Rubystars

wrote:
>>BTW, phytates also bind plant-based zinc. Zinc deficiency is also quite common
>>in vegans.
>>
>>
>>>We also now know that caffiene and
>>>nicotiene inhibit absorbtion of it.
>>
>>So do phytates, even more so than caffeine or nicotine.
>>
>>
>>>Have a read of a good, recently published vegan nutrition book and watch
>>>what you eat, and you should be okay. Avoid junk food, it is very low in
>>>nutrition. There are lots of iron rich veggie foods, they will be listed
>>>in the books or on the internet.
>>
>>Non-heme rich, not heme. The differences are pretty important, particularly
>>since phytates -- also in those "iron-rich veggie foods" -- bind the iron and
>>hinder absorption.
>
>
> what about simply taking an iron supplement?

Depends what else you eat with it. Is it heme? Then it isn't really vegetarian.
Is it non-heme? Then it will still bind with phytates in your veg-n diet. It
comes down to how well your body absorbs iron.

Some veg-ns don't absorb iron well at all, and their diet further aggravates
their deficiency. Anemia is not a good thing. Some people should not practice
veg-nism.

The same goes for zinc, which the typical veg-n diet also lacks. It, too, binds
with phytates. Nuts may be a good source, but the best sources for absorbable
zinc are from animal-based foods.

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:39:29 GMT, usual suspect >
wrote:

>BTW, phytates also bind plant-based zinc. Zinc deficiency is also quite common
>in vegans.
>
>> We also now know that caffiene and
>> nicotiene inhibit absorbtion of it.
>
>So do phytates, even more so than caffeine or nicotine.
>
>> Have a read of a good, recently published vegan nutrition book and watch
>> what you eat, and you should be okay. Avoid junk food, it is very low in
>> nutrition. There are lots of iron rich veggie foods, they will be listed
>> in the books or on the internet.
>
>Non-heme rich, not heme. The differences are pretty important, particularly
>since phytates -- also in those "iron-rich veggie foods" -- bind the iron and
>hinder absorption.


what about simply taking an iron supplement?

meh. i just try to eat lots of veggies, don't smoke/drink much caffiene,
don't take iron supplements, and all my blood tests always show that my iron
levels are great. and hell, being a woman, i'm supposed to have to be extra
careful. but i don't worry about it. some folks could eat the same and not
absorb it well i guess, but that's why it's important for everyone to have
blood tests every once in a while.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> herbwormwood wrote:
> <...>
> > I believe that recent understanding has made it easier for informed
vegans
> > not to be iron deficient. We now know that to get iron from veggies we
> > have to eat vitamin c with it.
>
> That alone doesn't always help. Non-heme iron, which is found in plant
foods,
> binds with phytates, which are also abundant in plant foods, and prevent
> absorption. I linked one study in either AFV or AAEV a few months ago that
> showed consumption of a heme iron (meat; they used pork in the study)
source
> increased non-heme iron absorption MORE than non-heme plus vitamin C.
>
> BTW, phytates also bind plant-based zinc. Zinc deficiency is also quite
common
> in vegans.
>
> > We also now know that caffiene and
> > nicotiene inhibit absorbtion of it.
>
> So do phytates, even more so than caffeine or nicotine.
>
> > Have a read of a good, recently published vegan nutrition book and watch
> > what you eat, and you should be okay. Avoid junk food, it is very low in
> > nutrition. There are lots of iron rich veggie foods, they will be
listed
> > in the books or on the internet.
>
> Non-heme rich, not heme. The differences are pretty important,
particularly
> since phytates -- also in those "iron-rich veggie foods" -- bind the iron
and
> hinder absorption.
>
> <...>
>

"Rattyboy" > wrote in message
...

> I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
> around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"
> There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
> that the only way to get it is from meat.
http://ecologos.org/pp.htm
http://ecologos.org/pro.htm

Laurie

Larry peddled his own website:
>>I've recently gone to a vegan diet. The #1 gripe I get from everyone
>>around me (friends, family, etc) is, "What? No protein?"
>>There seems to be a misconception that plants don't have proteien and
>>that the only way to get it is from meat.

It's one of the best sources for protein, iron, zinc, and B12. Unless you
painstakingly plan your vegan diet, you're likely to have one or more
deficiencies. Ignore Larry's website. It's self-serving pseudoscientific pap of
a man who posts using a woman's name. You're better off getting nutritional
advice from a real professional, like a dietician or a doctor. The latter is
preferable so your serum levels of vitamins and minerals can be monitored, and
your diet can be adjusted accordingly.

<...>
> Laurie

Your name is *LARRY*.