I started a plum wine from scratch earlier this year. In secondary, it
developed an infection, waxy coatings on the surface of the wine. Through
two additional rackings, I added 5 crushed cambden tablets each time, and
the infection died. Now, after months resting in the carboy, the wine
tastes sharp and salty. I'm assuming that's the cambden. Now, how do I
eliminate this flavor from the wine? My best guess is to use finings to
clear it as best I can, then filter, and then sweeten to mask any lingering
salty taste.

Does anyone have any advice? The large doses of cambden did kill the
infection, but what is the cure for the cure?

I believe hydrogen peroxide (grocery store grade) is commonly used to
deal with excessive sulfite. I've never had the problem myself so I
don't fully understand the process. Perhaps someone else who has tried
it can explain the process... Anyone?... Bueller.... Bueller....
Bueller...


On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:11:15 -0600, "Matthew Givens"
> wrote:

>I started a plum wine from scratch earlier this year. In secondary, it
>developed an infection, waxy coatings on the surface of the wine. Through
>two additional rackings, I added 5 crushed cambden tablets each time, and
>the infection died. Now, after months resting in the carboy, the wine
>tastes sharp and salty. I'm assuming that's the cambden. Now, how do I
>eliminate this flavor from the wine? My best guess is to use finings to
>clear it as best I can, then filter, and then sweeten to mask any lingering
>salty taste.
>
>Does anyone have any advice? The large doses of cambden did kill the
>infection, but what is the cure for the cure?
>

How much wine are you talking about? If this is a gallon, I don't
think you can use hydrogen peroxide to deal with this, it sound like
you would have over 200 PPM free and hydrogen peroxide is usually used
to removes 10's of Pm's.

If this is 5 gallons you can try peroxide but just rack it at least
once before anything else. That will probably drop it by at least 10
PPM if you dangle the hose and it's less drastic.

Let us know what you have to start with and maybe we can give you the
least drastic option.

I can tell you that sounded like mycoderma and the solution that works
best on any film forming infection is to do the following:

* Insert something in the carboy to overflow it, a plugged wine thief
works great. Just wrap a paper towel around the neck and let the
infection roll over the side.

* Wipe the open inner surface of the carboy clean, then wet a paper
towel with sulfite solution (I keep a bottle of 1% and citric around)
and re wipe.

* Make sure your sulfite level is correct for the pH of the wine, if
you don't have a way to measure pH use 50 PPM as a ballpark.

*Don't stir in the sulfite, pour the liquid in slowly to let it
overdose the top of the wine, it may lighten the color but don't worry.
If you missed any mycoderma this will probably kill it.

Exposure to air and low sulfite usually bring this on, see if you can
determine how it happened.

Joe

Joe,

It depends what the "waxy" stuff looked like. If I was a betting man,
and I am, I bet he had a clear waxy film which I don't think was
anything bad. I've had it before, especially on new wines, and it was
nothing. It went away with racking. We need to know what the wine
smelled like. I think new winemakers have a tendency to panic, at least
I did, on every little thing and I have a feeling he just over-sulfited
perfectly good wine. Bottom line, trust your nose, follow the basic
guidlines and don't panic.

Bob



Joe Sallustio wrote:
> How much wine are you talking about? If this is a gallon, I don't
> think you can use hydrogen peroxide to deal with this, it sound like
> you would have over 200 PPM free and hydrogen peroxide is usually used
> to removes 10's of Pm's.
>
> If this is 5 gallons you can try peroxide but just rack it at least
> once before anything else. That will probably drop it by at least 10
> PPM if you dangle the hose and it's less drastic.
>
> Let us know what you have to start with and maybe we can give you the
> least drastic option.
>
> I can tell you that sounded like mycoderma and the solution that works
> best on any film forming infection is to do the following:
>
> * Insert something in the carboy to overflow it, a plugged wine thief
> works great. Just wrap a paper towel around the neck and let the
> infection roll over the side.
>
> * Wipe the open inner surface of the carboy clean, then wet a paper
> towel with sulfite solution (I keep a bottle of 1% and citric around)
> and re wipe.
>
> * Make sure your sulfite level is correct for the pH of the wine, if
> you don't have a way to measure pH use 50 PPM as a ballpark.
>
> *Don't stir in the sulfite, pour the liquid in slowly to let it
> overdose the top of the wine, it may lighten the color but don't worry.
> If you missed any mycoderma this will probably kill it.
>
> Exposure to air and low sulfite usually bring this on, see if you can
> determine how it happened.
>
> Joe

This was 5-gallons of plum wine, made from 32 pounds of fresh plums.

Are you sure hydrogen peroxide is the correct procedure? Looking at the
label on my bottle from the pharmacy, it's "not for internal use". Always
thought it was one of the "no-no-poison" liquids momma always warned about.

Can you post details on the procedure and the amounts? Thanks.




"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> How much wine are you talking about? If this is a gallon, I don't
> think you can use hydrogen peroxide to deal with this, it sound like
> you would have over 200 PPM free and hydrogen peroxide is usually used
> to removes 10's of Pm's.
>
> If this is 5 gallons you can try peroxide but just rack it at least
> once before anything else. That will probably drop it by at least 10
> PPM if you dangle the hose and it's less drastic.
>
> Let us know what you have to start with and maybe we can give you the
> least drastic option.
>
> I can tell you that sounded like mycoderma and the solution that works
> best on any film forming infection is to do the following:
>
> * Insert something in the carboy to overflow it, a plugged wine thief
> works great. Just wrap a paper towel around the neck and let the
> infection roll over the side.
>
> * Wipe the open inner surface of the carboy clean, then wet a paper
> towel with sulfite solution (I keep a bottle of 1% and citric around)
> and re wipe.
>
> * Make sure your sulfite level is correct for the pH of the wine, if
> you don't have a way to measure pH use 50 PPM as a ballpark.
>
> *Don't stir in the sulfite, pour the liquid in slowly to let it
> overdose the top of the wine, it may lighten the color but don't worry.
> If you missed any mycoderma this will probably kill it.
>
> Exposure to air and low sulfite usually bring this on, see if you can
> determine how it happened.
>
> Joe
>

I identified the wax-like infection from Jack Keller's website as "Flower's
of Wine". The description said this infection primarily consumes alcohol.
I believe this is bad. (grin) The description on Jack's website
(http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/problems.asp) doesn't mention a smell.



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Joe,
>
> It depends what the "waxy" stuff looked like. If I was a betting man,
> and I am, I bet he had a clear waxy film which I don't think was
> anything bad. I've had it before, especially on new wines, and it was
> nothing. It went away with racking. We need to know what the wine
> smelled like. I think new winemakers have a tendency to panic, at least
> I did, on every little thing and I have a feeling he just over-sulfited
> perfectly good wine. Bottom line, trust your nose, follow the basic
> guidlines and don't panic.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>> How much wine are you talking about? If this is a gallon, I don't
>> think you can use hydrogen peroxide to deal with this, it sound like
>> you would have over 200 PPM free and hydrogen peroxide is usually used
>> to removes 10's of Pm's.
>>
>> If this is 5 gallons you can try peroxide but just rack it at least
>> once before anything else. That will probably drop it by at least 10
>> PPM if you dangle the hose and it's less drastic.
>>
>> Let us know what you have to start with and maybe we can give you the
>> least drastic option.
>>
>> I can tell you that sounded like mycoderma and the solution that works
>> best on any film forming infection is to do the following:
>>
>> * Insert something in the carboy to overflow it, a plugged wine thief
>> works great. Just wrap a paper towel around the neck and let the
>> infection roll over the side.
>>
>> * Wipe the open inner surface of the carboy clean, then wet a paper
>> towel with sulfite solution (I keep a bottle of 1% and citric around)
>> and re wipe.
>>
>> * Make sure your sulfite level is correct for the pH of the wine, if
>> you don't have a way to measure pH use 50 PPM as a ballpark.
>>
>> *Don't stir in the sulfite, pour the liquid in slowly to let it
>> overdose the top of the wine, it may lighten the color but don't worry.
>> If you missed any mycoderma this will probably kill it.
>>
>> Exposure to air and low sulfite usually bring this on, see if you can
>> determine how it happened.
>>
>> Joe
>

Matthew,
Use 1% H2O2 and add 50 ml per HL to reduce it by 10 ppm, so that sounds
like 10 ml for 5 gallons. I would try this on a small sample first...


Have you measured SO2 and does it seem high? Can you smell a little
'sharpness'? That's how I would describe the smell if your nose is
sensitive. If you taste it it is probably high; my brother is better
at tasting high SO2 than me, I can smell it better than him. Go
figure.

My home bottle is 3% so be careful here. You don't want to overdo
this.

I would rack with splashing first, especially if your pH is low.
Splashing is more effective at lower pH.


Joe

Matthew Givens wrote:
> This was 5-gallons of plum wine, made from 32 pounds of fresh plums.
>
> Are you sure hydrogen peroxide is the correct procedure? Looking at the
> label on my bottle from the pharmacy, it's "not for internal use". Always
> thought it was one of the "no-no-poison" liquids momma always warned about.
>
> Can you post details on the procedure and the amounts? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > How much wine are you talking about? If this is a gallon, I don't
> > think you can use hydrogen peroxide to deal with this, it sound like
> > you would have over 200 PPM free and hydrogen peroxide is usually used
> > to removes 10's of Pm's.
> >
> > If this is 5 gallons you can try peroxide but just rack it at least
> > once before anything else. That will probably drop it by at least 10
> > PPM if you dangle the hose and it's less drastic.
> >
> > Let us know what you have to start with and maybe we can give you the
> > least drastic option.
> >
> > I can tell you that sounded like mycoderma and the solution that works
> > best on any film forming infection is to do the following:
> >
> > * Insert something in the carboy to overflow it, a plugged wine thief
> > works great. Just wrap a paper towel around the neck and let the
> > infection roll over the side.
> >
> > * Wipe the open inner surface of the carboy clean, then wet a paper
> > towel with sulfite solution (I keep a bottle of 1% and citric around)
> > and re wipe.
> >
> > * Make sure your sulfite level is correct for the pH of the wine, if
> > you don't have a way to measure pH use 50 PPM as a ballpark.
> >
> > *Don't stir in the sulfite, pour the liquid in slowly to let it
> > overdose the top of the wine, it may lighten the color but don't worry.
> > If you missed any mycoderma this will probably kill it.
> >
> > Exposure to air and low sulfite usually bring this on, see if you can
> > determine how it happened.
> >
> > Joe
> >