usual suspect wrote:

> Rat & Swan wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Vegans advocate a responsible, compassionate lifestyle that does not
>>>>>>> include the intentional killing of animals for sustenance.
>>
>>
>> There is absolutely no question that this is true
>
>
> There are many questions that it's true.

Worse: there is zero evidence that it's true.

>
>> -- every single (ethical)vegan does so.
>
>
> No, they make unfounded claims about it.

Exactly. The claims not only are unfounded, they are
easily shown to be false, as unfounded claims have a
habit of being shown.

>
>> Antis may argue either that the vegan is deluded in his means to
>> achieve this, or that he is deliberately hypocritical, but that
>> is something entirely different
>
>
> No, not really. Most vegans, even those who self-righteously affix the
> sanctimonious qualifier "ethical" to their brand of veganism, reject the
> truly low-impact alternatives which are really nothing but matters of
> self-sufficiency (gardening, etc.). The fact that they purchase analogs
> and other products show they (a) contribute to "cruelty" in farming and
> (b) really haven't lost their taste (and preference!) for consuming
> animal flesh.
>
>> -- and, of course, highly debatable.
>
>
> No, it's not debatable.
>
>> However, there is no honest way to dispute that vegans ADVOCATE
>> what Dreck says they do.
>
>
> Yes, there is. Vegans, particularly activists, advocate eating no meat;
> they know that producing the foods they recommend -- from tofu to rice
> to veggies to fruits -- still cause animal casualties and deaths, but
> they say little or nothing about that. The only stuff from vegan/AR
> activists that I've seen online addressing issues of animal harm from
> agriculture production is like this one from Cerkowski:
> http://www.angelfire.com/realm/censoredred/veg1.html
>
> [JB: Have you seen this one?
> http://wiredheart.hispeed.com/september/michael.html]

Yes, I've seen that before. Take a look at it again,
then reflect on Slick's outrageous claim that he has
been involved in a bar fight! That dweeb? No way. I
said at the time he wrote it that the only time he was
in a bar fight was when the cocktail waitress punched
him out from puking in the potted plants after
consuming one too many Fuzzy Navels (his second, probably).

>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> No one believes all animal and human
>>>>> life can be protected 100% in industry and agriculture.
>>
>>
>> This is also true -- or, to avoid a claim of mindreading on the
>> pro-AR side, no one I have ever read has claimed that all
>> human and animal life can be protected 100 per cent.
>
>
> Why do they call their fake meats and other analogs "cruelty-free"?
>