I am considering trying brewing with a yixing to see what all the rave is
about. I think I need to go through the archives here to try and learn what
I can, but is there a FAQ anywhere on all this that might be easier to
navigate, etc?

I do not wish to ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times, and
would be interested in something that provides true, concise, even
scientific information.

Best regards,

Daniel

I refer to a well-done, prolific teadrinking FAQ. Some of what I see range
from the uber-scientific, to the "It's just TEA for cripes sake... JUST
ENJOY IT!

DJM

"Daniel J. Morlan" > wrote in message
et...
>I am considering trying brewing with a yixing to see what all the rave is
>about. I think I need to go through the archives here to try and learn
>what I can, but is there a FAQ anywhere on all this that might be easier to
>navigate, etc?
>
> I do not wish to ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times, and
> would be interested in something that provides true, concise, even
> scientific information.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Daniel
>

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:47:40 GMT, "Daniel J. Morlan"
> wrote:

>I refer to a well-done, prolific teadrinking FAQ. Some of what I see range
>from the uber-scientific, to the "It's just TEA for cripes sake... JUST
>ENJOY IT!
>
>DJM

Try the RFDT FAQ http://pages.ripco.net/~c4ha2na9/tea/faq.html

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

Daniel J. . net12/15/05


> I am considering trying brewing with a yixing to see what all the rave is
> about. I think I need to go through the archives here to try and learn what
> I can, but is there a FAQ anywhere on all this that might be easier to
> navigate, etc?
>
> I do not wish to ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times, and
> would be interested in something that provides true, concise, even
> scientific information.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>
Hi there Daniel,

First, by all means let's talk about it because gung-fu is a dynamic living
approach to tea, and even as a revisit we will find new things to talk
about. Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
language. (Sorry.) There will be mention of rinsing the tea, the cups, and
the other stuff. All this however according to some sources is *not*
Gung-fu -- yet. Gung-fu uses all this and does all this, but proceeds in a
carefully orchestrated series of steps through the five required steeps.
These steps vary precisely from steep to steep.

As a Westerner, I know I will never accomplish Gung-fu, and therefore I use
two largish mason jars to brew tea, which is quite good enough for the likes
of me. (I do on occasion make believe with a Gung-fu pot, but it's just for
show, I assure you.)

BTW, please do *not* put your YiXing pot in the microwave. It hurts their
feelings, to say the least, and they are more sensitive than most people I
know.

Luck,
Michael

Michael Plant > writes:

> [...gongfu is alive...]
>
> Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
> some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
> the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
> hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
> and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
> steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
> all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
> language.

Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
language, unfortunately, you lose.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
> Michael Plant > writes:
>
> > [...gongfu is alive...]
> >
> > Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
> > some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
> > the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
> > hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
> > and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
> > steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
> > all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
> > language.
>
> Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
> some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
> the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
> hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
> and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
> steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
> all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
> language, unfortunately, you lose.

James Joyce has both of you easily beat -- although it's debatable
whether _Finnegans Wake_ is actually written in English.

Still, I seem to recall some sentences in _Ulysses_ that well exceeded
the above, so he's still got you both beat.


stePH
in cup: Twinings Earl Grey

12/15/05


>
> Lewis Perin wrote:
>> Michael Plant > writes:
>>
>>> [...gongfu is alive...]
>>>
>>> Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
>>> some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
>>> the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
>>> hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
>>> and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
>>> steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
>>> all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
>>> language.
>>
>> Now having said that, nearly all, if not all, web sites will describe
>> some version of this: A little teapot filled with leaf to the point that
>> the wet leaf will reach the very top and possibly push against the lid, hot
>> hot water, quick quick steeps, little bitty cups, sometimes one for smelling
>> and one for tasting, a pitcher to receive the fast brewed tea, and multiple
>> steeps, which is to say you pour more water over the wet leaves and do it
>> all again, in an effort to create the longest sentence in the English
>> language, unfortunately, you lose.
>
> James Joyce has both of you easily beat -- although it's debatable
> whether _Finnegans Wake_ is actually written in English.
>
> Still, I seem to recall some sentences in _Ulysses_ that well exceeded
> the above, so he's still got you both beat.


the keys. given. We have a lot to talk about.
Michael

Someone once related this anecdote to me: it was announced that
_Finnegans Wake_ had been translated into French.

One man spoke up and asked "From what?"


stePH
in cup: Twinings Earl Grey
NP: Ars Nova, "Morgan"

12/15/05


> Someone once related this anecdote to me: it was announced that
> _Finnegans Wake_ had been translated into French.
>
> One man spoke up and asked "From what?"


from language in general that includes music

I've been drinking 2000 Raw Fu Hai Pu'erh from Jing Tea Shop. This is a
leather-soft tea, friendly and welcoming as a well kept old leather chair,
persistent through steeps, with a gentle unassuming finish, and a slight
slight sweet undertone. It reminds me of a 1999(ish) brick I've come to know
rather well made to commemorate Hong Kong's return to China.

Michael

I don't get it. Haven't read any Joyce. Is Finnegan's Wake a good place
to start, then?

Oops. Went to wikipedia and answered my own question. I'll have to make
it through Tender Buttons first.

Gee whiz... I get so excited to see so many replies to my initial post.

DJM


"Jason F in Los Angeles" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Oops. Went to wikipedia and answered my own question. I'll have to make
> it through Tender Buttons first.
>

Jason F in Los
12/15/05


> I don't get it. Haven't read any Joyce. Is Finnegan's Wake a good place
> to start, then?
>

No. Joyce's book of short stories (Dubliners) is a good place to start. Then
on to Portrait of The Artist as A Young Man, then to Ulysses, and then to
Finnegans Wake. (By that time you will understand why no apostrophe is
indicated.) You will also have read the books in the order in which Joyce
wrote them, and you will be wading in deeper and deeper as you go. Or, if
you find yourself hooked, you could do it as I did: all backwards. Reading
Finnegans Wake is a group effort. You will want to have people familiar with
various musics, especially Celtic, various languages, especially most of
them, various literary traditions, especially Celtic, various religious
tradtions, expecially Roman Catholic, and with lots and lots of pondering
and deconstructing time. You might also want a couple concordances, but they
are not necessary. Failing a group, read FW aloud, not too fast, and more
than once, to say the least.

I'm drinking Zheng Shan Wild green Pu'erh 2005 from Six Famous Tea Mountain.
It's got not a trace of off note, but it is quite light in good things as
well, showing no smoke, no flower, and no fruit, except that last in the
finish where it lingers for a bit on the back top of the tongue and the back
of the mouth. I have no complaints, but at the same time I cannot recommend
that you go out and buy it. Better to spend your money on a decent copy of
FW, and make sure the paper is decent since it will have to withstand your
thumb prints and your copious notes.

Michael

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
> No. Joyce's book of short stories (Dubliners) is a good place to
start. Then
> on to Portrait of The Artist as A Young Man, then to Ulysses, and then to
> Finnegans Wake. (By that time you will understand why no apostrophe is
> indicated.) You will also have read the books in the order in which Joyce

If you like the style of Joyce and Pynchon, you might like a new author
named David Foster Wallace. Infinite Jest is probably a good place to
start for his fiction, or his nonfiction can be found online if you look
hard enough.

> I'm drinking Zheng Shan Wild green Pu'erh 2005 from Six Famous Tea Mountain.
> It's got not a trace of off note, but it is quite light in good things as

I'm drinking a rather disappointing Sencha I picked up from a foreign
supermarket. Is it normal for tea to develop a goopy film at the bottom
of the cup? I usually get that, but the degree to which I get it with
this tea is incredible.

Steve

snip

> If you like the style of Joyce and Pynchon, you might like a new author
> named David Foster Wallace. Infinite Jest is probably a good place to
> start for his fiction, or his nonfiction can be found online if you look
> hard enough.

Thanks, Steve. I'll look into him as soon as time permits.
>
>> I'm drinking Zheng Shan Wild green Pu'erh 2005 from Six Famous Tea Mountain.
>> It's got not a trace of off note, but it is quite light in good things as
>
> I'm drinking a rather disappointing Sencha I picked up from a foreign
> supermarket. Is it normal for tea to develop a goopy film at the bottom
> of the cup? I usually get that, but the degree to which I get it with
> this tea is incredible.

I'm more concerned with the goopy film you "usually get," than this one
Sencha experience of yours. It is not normal, and I can't imagine why you
get such a thing. Could be your water. Are you in a place in North America
where the water is particularly awful, or perhaps you are in England? Please
describe the goop in more detail.

Best,
Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
> I'm more concerned with the goopy film you "usually get," than this one
> Sencha experience of yours. It is not normal, and I can't imagine why you
> get such a thing. Could be your water. Are you in a place in North America
> where the water is particularly awful, or perhaps you are in England? Please
> describe the goop in more detail.

Oh, the water is superb here. The Washington, DC metro area has the
finest water supply a general lack of caring by the government on water
quality can buy.

Simply put, it is probably the water. However, I do run the tap through
a Brita, which helps the taste some.

The filmy/goop-like substance at the bottom of the teacup has bits of
tea in it. If mixed, the goop is somewhat soluble in the water; that is
until you let it sit for a few minutes. It is a very soft and slimy
goop. It has an almost water-like viscosity itself, but a little more
substantive. One might describe it a kind of tea-leaf dirt that settles
to the bottom. I usually just toss out the last half-teaspoon or so of
the tea in my cup. I figured it was just a part of the loose-leaf tea
experience, since tea drank this way is in some sense unfiltered.

Steve

Steve Hay wrote:

> The filmy/goop-like substance at the bottom of the teacup has bits of
> tea in it. If mixed, the goop is somewhat soluble in the water; that is
> until you let it sit for a few minutes. It is a very soft and slimy
> goop. It has an almost water-like viscosity itself, but a little more
> substantive. One might describe it a kind of tea-leaf dirt that settles
> to the bottom. I usually just toss out the last half-teaspoon or so of
> the tea in my cup. I figured it was just a part of the loose-leaf tea
> experience, since tea drank this way is in some sense unfiltered.

I've never seen such a substance while drinking tea. Usually, you can
emptycup to the bottom. And I only drink loose leaf tea. Do you get the
film when you make other drinks/food using this tap water? Maybe it's the
tea nevertheless.

Ciao

Nils
--
It's very easy to opt out. And yes, doing so really will allow you to
opt out. We aren't just saying that so that we can put on the facade
that we're legitimate advertisers, whilst laughing away, blatantly
ignoring remove requests. [...] Just take our word for it. (from a spam)

Nils Lahmann wrote:
> Steve Hay wrote:
>
>
>>The filmy/goop-like substance at the bottom of the teacup has bits of
>>tea in it. If mixed, the goop is somewhat soluble in the water; that is
>>until you let it sit for a few minutes. It is a very soft and slimy
>>goop. It has an almost water-like viscosity itself, but a little more
>>substantive. One might describe it a kind of tea-leaf dirt that settles
>>to the bottom. I usually just toss out the last half-teaspoon or so of
>>the tea in my cup. I figured it was just a part of the loose-leaf tea
>>experience, since tea drank this way is in some sense unfiltered.
>
>
> I've never seen such a substance while drinking tea. Usually, you can
> emptycup to the bottom. And I only drink loose leaf tea. Do you get the
> film when you make other drinks/food using this tap water? Maybe it's the
> tea nevertheless.
>

Only with tea do I notice it. I brew coffee and have never seen it.
That said, I've seen it to varying degrees on quite a few loose-leaf
teas, including those I've bought from IPOT and SpecialTeas, both
reputable vendors.

Steve

In article <alWof.3229$vJ4.2424@trnddc07>,
Steve Hay > wrote:

> Only with tea do I notice it. I brew coffee and have never seen it.
> That said, I've seen it to varying degrees on quite a few loose-leaf
> teas, including those I've bought from IPOT and SpecialTeas, both
> reputable vendors.

I've never seen anything like a slimy goop at the bottom
of my cup. Wow. Sounds a little disgusting. What
kind of tea is it again?

pilo_ wrote:
> In article <alWof.3229$vJ4.2424@trnddc07>,
> Steve Hay > wrote:
>
>
>>Only with tea do I notice it. I brew coffee and have never seen it.
>>That said, I've seen it to varying degrees on quite a few loose-leaf
>>teas, including those I've bought from IPOT and SpecialTeas, both
>>reputable vendors.
>
>
> I've never seen anything like a slimy goop at the bottom
> of my cup. Wow. Sounds a little disgusting. What
> kind of tea is it again?

It is many teas. Both from IPOT and SpecialTeas. Just greens, oolongs,
and whites.

Steve Hay5aSrf.2347$X86.362@trnddc0412/26/05


> pilo_ wrote:
>> In article <alWof.3229$vJ4.2424@trnddc07>,
>> Steve Hay > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Only with tea do I notice it. I brew coffee and have never seen it.
>>>> That said, I've seen it to varying degrees on quite a few loose-leaf
>>>> teas, including those I've bought from IPOT and SpecialTeas, both
>>>> reputable vendors.

>>> I've never seen anything like a slimy goop at the bottom
>>> of my cup. Wow. Sounds a little disgusting. What
>>> kind of tea is it again?

>> It is many teas. Both from IPOT and SpecialTeas. Just greens, oolongs,
>> and whites.

Steve,

I feel a little obligation to share that I often drink IPOT teas, and on
occasion ST teas as well, and I have *never* experienced said goop, gop,
slime, or other fearsomly organic sounding residue. Perhaps, the water?
(You had said no to this in the past.) Perhaps, a wildly different
perception/idea of the what those fearsome words imply? (I think better of
you; I think you can pretty much identify goop when you encounter it.) Had
you mentioned that you brew five days at room temperature? (I don't recall
you're having said that.) I just don't know. Greater minds than mine must be
at work.

Merry season, all.
Michael

Michael Plant > wrote:
>I feel a little obligation to share that I often drink IPOT teas, and on
>occasion ST teas as well, and I have *never* experienced said goop, gop,
>slime, or other fearsomly organic sounding residue. Perhaps, the water?

Iron salts in the water. Add tannic acid and get a precipitate.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

> Michael Plant > wrote:
>> I feel a little obligation to share that I often drink IPOT teas, and on
>> occasion ST teas as well, and I have *never* experienced said goop, gop,
>> slime, or other fearsomly organic sounding residue. Perhaps, the water?
>
> Iron salts in the water. Add tannic acid and get a precipitate.
> --scott

Would that percipitate be describable as "goopy"? London water -- this is
from long ago, don't get more upset than you absolutely need to -- had an
oily film, as in oil slick. Lovely. And the mesh ball thing in the water
would turn hard with chalk in about eight minutes. Well, perhaps ten. I
would have said that London water was the worst, but I've been a number of
times to South Florida. For those who appreciate a whiff of medium boiled
egg in their tea (a whiff that does *not* derive from medium boiled egg),
it's just the thing.
Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
>>Michael Plant > wrote:
>>
>>>I feel a little obligation to share that I often drink IPOT teas, and on
>>>occasion ST teas as well, and I have *never* experienced said goop, gop,
>>>slime, or other fearsomly organic sounding residue. Perhaps, the water?
>>
>>Iron salts in the water. Add tannic acid and get a precipitate.
>>--scott
>
>
> Would that percipitate be describable as "goopy"? London water -- this is
> from long ago, don't get more upset than you absolutely need to -- had an
> oily film, as in oil slick. Lovely. And the mesh ball thing in the water
> would turn hard with chalk in about eight minutes. Well, perhaps ten. I
> would have said that London water was the worst, but I've been a number of
> times to South Florida. For those who appreciate a whiff of medium boiled
> egg in their tea (a whiff that does *not* derive from medium boiled egg),
> it's just the thing.
> Michael
>

The chalky substance in my Espresso machine is soft.. I would not be
surprised if the reason for the deposits in my tea has something to do
with the water here in DC. I think you may have misinterpreted my
sarcasm about the water here. What I should do is get some good
drinking water (Dasani?) and try brewing with that. Even so, the "goop"
isn't so much of a goop as it is filmy. It is a very delicate film/goop
that has a strand-like quality and reminds me of what the beginnings of
algae formation might look like.

Anyway, my guess is that the water is too hard and as such, stuff is
precipitating out.

> >>> I've never seen anything like a slimy goop at the bottom
> >>> of my cup. Wow. Sounds a little disgusting. What
> >>> kind of tea is it again?


> >> It is many teas. Both from IPOT and SpecialTeas. Just greens, oolongs,
> >> and whites.

I think something is very, very wrong. With something. Somewhere.

I've been drinking teas of all kinds for many, many years, and have
NEVER seen anything that could remotely be described as goopy or
slimy in my cup. Not once.

What on earth are you drinking?

Steve Hay > wrote:
>
>The chalky substance in my Espresso machine is soft.. I would not be
>surprised if the reason for the deposits in my tea has something to do
>with the water here in DC.

DC water tends to be really high in calcium. In the days before the
Barry monarchy, you could get a nifty report on your local water from
the Corps of Engineers folks at the Occoquan reservoir (as well as a
really great tour of the pumping facility down there).

There have been a bunch of changes to the water in DC, including a
major change in water pH four or five years ago, which has lead to a
lot of the corrosion being knocked off of older lines. This is where
some of the outcry about lead is coming from; local lines that had
lead sections and joints that were nicely corroded over and perfectly
safe became cleaned out and unsafe with the change in the water.

Anyway, I would be very surprised if you can't get a bunch of propaganda
and maybe some actual analyses of your local water from the city.

>I think you may have misinterpreted my
>sarcasm about the water here. What I should do is get some good
>drinking water (Dasani?) and try brewing with that. Even so, the "goop"
>isn't so much of a goop as it is filmy. It is a very delicate film/goop
>that has a strand-like quality and reminds me of what the beginnings of
>algae formation might look like.

But is it bad? You should try some bottled water and see if the taste
is any different. But I figure it it doesn't change the taste, having
a little goop down at the bottom isn't anything to worry about.

>Anyway, my guess is that the water is too hard and as such, stuff is
>precipitating out.

My uncle would say that this is just more proof that water is hazardous
and you should drink only distilled liquor instead. He lived well into
his nineties so maybe he knew something.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> But is it bad? You should try some bottled water and see if the taste
> is any different. But I figure it it doesn't change the taste, having
> a little goop down at the bottom isn't anything to worry about.

I've not had the guts to try it. I would rate it at most an annoyance.
As for the lead, I've heard this was a problem in DC proper, but have
not heard it was a problem in the greater DC metro area. I could be
wrong there. I'll do some research.

> My uncle would say that this is just more proof that water is hazardous
> and you should drink only distilled liquor instead. He lived well into
> his nineties so maybe he knew something.

Purity of Essence?

Steve

Steve HayPuVrf.6335$y04.4096@trnddc0212/26/05


> Michael Plant wrote:
>>> Michael Plant > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I feel a little obligation to share that I often drink IPOT teas, and on
>>>> occasion ST teas as well, and I have *never* experienced said goop, gop,
>>>> slime, or other fearsomly organic sounding residue. Perhaps, the water?
>>>
>>> Iron salts in the water. Add tannic acid and get a precipitate.
>>> --scott
>>
>>
>> Would that percipitate be describable as "goopy"? London water -- this is
>> from long ago, don't get more upset than you absolutely need to -- had an
>> oily film, as in oil slick. Lovely. And the mesh ball thing in the water
>> would turn hard with chalk in about eight minutes. Well, perhaps ten. I
>> would have said that London water was the worst, but I've been a number of
>> times to South Florida. For those who appreciate a whiff of medium boiled
>> egg in their tea (a whiff that does *not* derive from medium boiled egg),
>> it's just the thing.
>> Michael
>>
>
> The chalky substance in my Espresso machine is soft.. I would not be
> surprised if the reason for the deposits in my tea has something to do
> with the water here in DC. I think you may have misinterpreted my
> sarcasm about the water here. What I should do is get some good
> drinking water (Dasani?) and try brewing with that. Even so, the "goop"
> isn't so much of a goop as it is filmy. It is a very delicate film/goop
> that has a strand-like quality and reminds me of what the beginnings of
> algae formation might look like.
>
> Anyway, my guess is that the water is too hard and as such, stuff is
> precipitating out.

Sounds logical. I recommend Poland Spring
because 1) it came out favorably in a recent
tasting we performed (albeit sloppily); 2) it
is cheap and readily available, and 3) serious
tea people here (the owners of a shop, although
that latter fact is not too significant) use it
exclusively. I "think" Dasani comes from the
Coca Cola company or another equally suspect.
Just my thoughts on this weighty matter. I've
had perfectly good results with Fiji and others,
but they tend to be pricey, and not better.

BYW, I did miss your sarcasm. Thanks for
explaining. (I have no DC water memory.)

Best,
Michael

12/26/05


>
>>>>> I've never seen anything like a slimy goop at the bottom
>>>>> of my cup. Wow. Sounds a little disgusting. What
>>>>> kind of tea is it again?
>
>
>>>> It is many teas. Both from IPOT and SpecialTeas. Just greens, oolongs,
>>>> and whites.
>
> I think something is very, very wrong. With something. Somewhere.
>
> I've been drinking teas of all kinds for many, many years, and have
> NEVER seen anything that could remotely be described as goopy or
> slimy in my cup. Not once.
>
> What on earth are you drinking?


He's using local water from our nation's capital! Need we say more?
Slimey, goopy, oil slick: You get the point. (If his water could talk,
it would lie.)
Michael