The two I know are 'flame' and 'pine and crane'. I see indications
there might be another one. If so can you describe it. I think it
came into use the same time as 'pine and crane'. Please also indicate
if these are the only two. I know the general use of the zhong emblem.

Thanks,
Jim

Huh? Whachatalkin' about? Tell me what you know about the general use of
the zhong emblem and perhaps I can add on from there...

Danny


"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The two I know are 'flame' and 'pine and crane'. I see indications
> there might be another one. If so can you describe it. I think it
> came into use the same time as 'pine and crane'. Please also indicate
> if these are the only two. I know the general use of the zhong emblem.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>

Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:

http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl...8e8fb065.jhtml

It's what I can buy in Chinatown by the QiZi bundle. Other auctions
refer to it as 'Iron' cake. I understand the general use of this
symbol to indicate a Chinese tea. I think the third emblem I've seen
described has the word 'South' in it but never has seen it besides the
two I mentioned.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
> Huh? Whachatalkin' about? Tell me what you know about the general use of
> the zhong emblem and perhaps I can add on from there...
>
> Danny
>
>
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > The two I know are 'flame' and 'pine and crane'. I see indications
> > there might be another one. If so can you describe it. I think it
> > came into use the same time as 'pine and crane'. Please also indicate
> > if these are the only two. I know the general use of the zhong emblem.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >

>Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:


It doesn't say xiaguan on the wrapper anywhere. It just says "qi zi
bing cha". I would also advise you against buying tea from this
seller. It appears he/she is in Dongguan, the city that I am living
in; a place notorious for fake tea in Guangdong. There is an entire
tea market here that sells nothing but teas bought from Fangcun in
Guangzhou (the biggest tea market in China) for highly marked-up
prices. Dongguan local people are rich and most of them know little
about tea, so the stores can make a quick profit.

And, that wrapper looks pretty new for 2003 tea, IMO.

The bing says (word by word translation):

Top: yun nan qi zi bing cha
--yunnan bing tea (qi zi is like 7 sons or something; er zi is son)
-yun means cloud; nan means south

Middle: cha; zhong cha pai
--tea; China brand

Bottom (wraps around): zhong guo, tu chan, xiu chan, jin chu kou gong
si, yun nan, cha ye, gong si
--China speciality product, animals people raise at home (referring to
walk..not sure why they put this there), import/export company, yunnan,
tea (ye means leaf) company

This tea appears to be a copy of the original factory that used this
logo. Actually, most pu'er bing has "qi zi bing" and the zhong emblem
in the center; so it's difficult to find the original. This company
just left out two characters "chu ping," which denotes the original
factory.

It's difficult to explain the lengths that factories and shops go to to
make a buck around here; it's also difficult to be able to recognize
the fake from the real. The only reason this one looks familar to me
is that I've seen it being sold around here, and also I have a book
explaining this exact situation.

Ahhhh I see now what you mean.

Zhong Cha label: It is a label that was used on all teas produced in
Yunnan, from 1952, regardless of whether it is produced in Menghai or
Xiaguan, or een Guangdong later. In the 80s and 90s when the factories
began to be privatised, factories dropped the Zhong Cha label and
established their own.

For Xiaguan, they registered the 'Pine & Crane' label in 1992, but it was in
1996 that Zhong Cha label was swapped for the 'Pine & Crane' label. The
tuocha was the first to adopt the new logo, the iron cake changed the logo
at a much later date, in early 2004.

The Zhong Cha label is the abbreviation for 'China Tea Import and Export
Company'. The Pine & Crane label if I remember correctly, is the sight and
sound of Dali city, where Xiaguan is located.

The 'Precious Flame' Baoyan label has a much longer history. The label was
created in 1942 for the Tibetan and Mongolian market, hence the logo has
some artistic similarity to the local arts, and there are foreign characters
in the local tongue. In 1949 the production stopped, and in the years to
come, the production under this label came on and off the production line
several times, and the tea itself changed from the mushroom shape to brick
and then back again; the most interesting point (to me at least), was when
'Precious Flame' had to be changed to 'United' label in 1966 under the
cultural revolution. In 1986 the Dalai Lama (?) (We call him Banchan)
visited Xiaguan and asked the factory to start the production line for this
tea, after it was stopped sometime between 1966 and 1967 (they produced the
brick tea instead). 500 bundles were produced, mostly exported to Tibet,
and not much were circulated in China. The 'Precious Flame' label was
finally re-established on 30th Nov. 1990 and production went full swing.
Most of what we see in the market now are from and post 1990.

Danny

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:
>
> http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl...8e8fb065.jhtml
>
> It's what I can buy in Chinatown by the QiZi bundle. Other auctions
> refer to it as 'Iron' cake. I understand the general use of this
> symbol to indicate a Chinese tea. I think the third emblem I've seen
> described has the word 'South' in it but never has seen it besides the
> two I mentioned.
>
> Jim
>
> samarkand wrote:
>> Huh? Whachatalkin' about? Tell me what you know about the general use of
>> the zhong emblem and perhaps I can add on from there...
>>
>> Danny
>>
>>
>> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> > The two I know are 'flame' and 'pine and crane'. I see indications
>> > there might be another one. If so can you describe it. I think it
>> > came into use the same time as 'pine and crane'. Please also indicate
>> > if these are the only two. I know the general use of the zhong emblem.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Jim
>> >
>

>Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:

One last thing. Buying tea from taobao, I would bet there's about a 98
percent chance that you're going to get a fake tea. Look at this for
instance:

http://auction1.taobao.com/auction/0...21fa4645.jhtml

It says this tea is from 1998...and they are selling it for 90 yuan.
Sounds similar to the guy that just posted about his "7 year old tea"
he got in Yunnan, doesn't it?

Hi Mydnight,

I agree, the wrapper looks ok, but the tea looks 1) too new to be from 2003,
2) it doesn't look like a Xiaguan product, more of a product from the other
side: Xishuangbanna...

However, Mydnight, Zhong Cha label is generic, it will not tell you anywhere
on the wrapper where the tea is produced. Only in the late 2003/2004 pieces
will one see the 'Pine& Crane' logo.


Danny



"Mydnight" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:
>
>
> It doesn't say xiaguan on the wrapper anywhere. It just says "qi zi
> bing cha". I would also advise you against buying tea from this
> seller. It appears he/she is in Dongguan, the city that I am living
> in; a place notorious for fake tea in Guangdong. There is an entire
> tea market here that sells nothing but teas bought from Fangcun in
> Guangzhou (the biggest tea market in China) for highly marked-up
> prices. Dongguan local people are rich and most of them know little
> about tea, so the stores can make a quick profit.
>
> And, that wrapper looks pretty new for 2003 tea, IMO.
>
> The bing says (word by word translation):
>
> Top: yun nan qi zi bing cha
> --yunnan bing tea (qi zi is like 7 sons or something; er zi is son)
> -yun means cloud; nan means south
>
> Middle: cha; zhong cha pai
> --tea; China brand
>
> Bottom (wraps around): zhong guo, tu chan, xiu chan, jin chu kou gong
> si, yun nan, cha ye, gong si
> --China speciality product, animals people raise at home (referring to
> walk..not sure why they put this there), import/export company, yunnan,
> tea (ye means leaf) company
>
> This tea appears to be a copy of the original factory that used this
> logo. Actually, most pu'er bing has "qi zi bing" and the zhong emblem
> in the center; so it's difficult to find the original. This company
> just left out two characters "chu ping," which denotes the original
> factory.
>
> It's difficult to explain the lengths that factories and shops go to to
> make a buck around here; it's also difficult to be able to recognize
> the fake from the real. The only reason this one looks familar to me
> is that I've seen it being sold around here, and also I have a book
> explaining this exact situation.
>

Ya, I know about the Zhong logo; the original factory that used logo
was copied to the point that it became generic. I was just saying that
"xia guan" isn't anywhere on the wrapper, but 'tu chan xiu chan gong
si' is. Just goes to show you about what I said about Dongguan shops;
they filed this in taobao under "xia guan" in hopes that someone would
pay 5 times what they should for this small factories tea. Cheap.

The sticker that comes inside the wrapper matches character for
character the transliteration "Yunnansheng Xiaguan ChaChang Chupin" on
a green Xiaguan tuocha box. However I would describe this as shu not
sheng. It is a dark brown with purple tint with some golden leaves.
The beeng looks like pressed with fine nylon mesh. It breaks easily by
hand and the taste like a single malt without the harsh complexity of
the shoe leather variety. It's hard to tell on the auction page if the
color matches what I buy in Chinatown. I've seen this auctioned
several other times under the name of Iron Xiaguan. If fake they're
consistent in calling it Xiaguan without the recognized Xiaguan
emblems. A 'fake' Xiaguan qizi bundle in my Chinatown will cost you
$18. It seems like to me if fake the generic wrapper with only zhong
logo would be used elsewhere.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
> Hi Mydnight,
>
> I agree, the wrapper looks ok, but the tea looks 1) too new to be from 2003,
> 2) it doesn't look like a Xiaguan product, more of a product from the other
> side: Xishuangbanna...
>
> However, Mydnight, Zhong Cha label is generic, it will not tell you anywhere
> on the wrapper where the tea is produced. Only in the late 2003/2004 pieces
> will one see the 'Pine& Crane' logo.
>
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > >Here is an example of Xiaguan using the zhong emblem:
> >
> >
> > It doesn't say xiaguan on the wrapper anywhere. It just says "qi zi
> > bing cha". I would also advise you against buying tea from this
> > seller. It appears he/she is in Dongguan, the city that I am living
> > in; a place notorious for fake tea in Guangdong. There is an entire
> > tea market here that sells nothing but teas bought from Fangcun in
> > Guangzhou (the biggest tea market in China) for highly marked-up
> > prices. Dongguan local people are rich and most of them know little
> > about tea, so the stores can make a quick profit.
> >
> > And, that wrapper looks pretty new for 2003 tea, IMO.
> >
> > The bing says (word by word translation):
> >
> > Top: yun nan qi zi bing cha
> > --yunnan bing tea (qi zi is like 7 sons or something; er zi is son)
> > -yun means cloud; nan means south
> >
> > Middle: cha; zhong cha pai
> > --tea; China brand
> >
> > Bottom (wraps around): zhong guo, tu chan, xiu chan, jin chu kou gong
> > si, yun nan, cha ye, gong si
> > --China speciality product, animals people raise at home (referring to
> > walk..not sure why they put this there), import/export company, yunnan,
> > tea (ye means leaf) company
> >
> > This tea appears to be a copy of the original factory that used this
> > logo. Actually, most pu'er bing has "qi zi bing" and the zhong emblem
> > in the center; so it's difficult to find the original. This company
> > just left out two characters "chu ping," which denotes the original
> > factory.
> >
> > It's difficult to explain the lengths that factories and shops go to to
> > make a buck around here; it's also difficult to be able to recognize
> > the fake from the real. The only reason this one looks familar to me
> > is that I've seen it being sold around here, and also I have a book
> > explaining this exact situation.
> >

"Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The sticker that comes inside the wrapper matches character for
> character the transliteration "Yunnansheng Xiaguan ChaChang Chupin" on
> a green Xiaguan tuocha box. However I would describe this as shu not
> sheng.

The 'Sheng' in Yunnansheng means Province, not Raw, though they share the
same pinyin.

It is a dark brown with purple tint with some golden leaves.
> The beeng looks like pressed with fine nylon mesh. It breaks easily by
> hand and the taste like a single malt without the harsh complexity of
> the shoe leather variety.
Interesting. The Iron cake is compressed by machine and tends to be very
compact. Vendors are known to spray water on it to make it 'age' faster,
and this might be the case in the cake you have. The cake, compressed and
compact, actually makes it harder to break apart. The mesh structure on the
cake is the result of the machine pressing hard on the cake. Actually, you
might be able to detect uniformed little 'bumps' on the cake. If you have
that, then it most probably from Xiaguan.

Danny

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Ya, I know about the Zhong logo; the original factory that used logo
> was copied to the point that it became generic.

:") The other way round. In 1952 when China Import & Export Tea Company
restructured, all sub-companies under it had to use the Zhong Cha label,
that meant all of the tea factories in China actually. The logo wasn't
copied, but mandatory that the factories and tea companies used it. If you
come across a tea box from Wuyishan in the 60s or 70s, you will find the
Zhong Cha label on the box somewhere.

When the state run China Import & Export Tea Company decided to return the
factories and tea companies to the 'people' and let them run the operation
on their own, things changed, new brands and logos started to appear, giving
us today a plethora of pu'er brands...

Danny

Oh that Sheng in Province. I see that word on every green Xiaguan box
and do the wrong substitution. I looked the character up once and
thought it meant cooked but I just doubled checked and eat crow.
Thanks. I have some other shu cakes that are absolutely smooth to the
touch as hard as a rock. You can see the mesh pattern. On this one it
is rough(bumpy?) and crumbles easily from the edges with the center
more solid. This cake came in a qizi bundle which I assume is done at
the factory or maybe fakirs who really understand the market and sell
it cheaper than individual factory pricing for us who think penny/gram
is still too much for tea. The only thing I noticed the qizi is wire
wrapped and not heavy twine. What is your meaning of 'Iron cake'?

Jim

samarkand wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > The sticker that comes inside the wrapper matches character for
> > character the transliteration "Yunnansheng Xiaguan ChaChang Chupin" on
> > a green Xiaguan tuocha box. However I would describe this as shu not
> > sheng.
>
> The 'Sheng' in Yunnansheng means Province, not Raw, though they share the
> same pinyin.
>
> It is a dark brown with purple tint with some golden leaves.
> > The beeng looks like pressed with fine nylon mesh. It breaks easily by
> > hand and the taste like a single malt without the harsh complexity of
> > the shoe leather variety.
> Interesting. The Iron cake is compressed by machine and tends to be very
> compact. Vendors are known to spray water on it to make it 'age' faster,
> and this might be the case in the cake you have. The cake, compressed and
> compact, actually makes it harder to break apart. The mesh structure on the
> cake is the result of the machine pressing hard on the cake. Actually, you
> might be able to detect uniformed little 'bumps' on the cake. If you have
> that, then it most probably from Xiaguan.
>
> Danny

> What is your meaning of 'Iron cake'?
>
> Jim

Hi Jim,

"Iron Cake" refers to the pressing machine which presses the cake into the
discus shape. There are, I think, broadly 2 types of mold from this machine
press: one which gives you a flushed edge and a surface fully spread with
small bumps, and another which gives you a meshed surface and a tapered
edge.

Wish I have a picture to show what I mean, but I don't have the cakes
anymore with me.

Danny

Hi you live in Donguan?. I am english and live in Hong
Kong , please leave me your email address. I have some
questions about tea for you.
..