please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
be pysical, cemical and biological.


Posted through TeaTalk - http://teatalk.dragonwater.com

..

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:26:54 GMT, Lasantha
> wrote:

>please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
>manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
>be pysical, cemical and biological.

why is it that people from dragontalk always come here wanting to sell
something or asking for us to send them random information when
they've never even posted here before?


dear, troll; please send me 3 easy installments of 29.95 and i'll send
you information.


heh..



Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:26:54 GMT, Lasantha
> wrote:

>please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
>manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
>be pysical, cemical and biological.

why is it that people from dragontalk always come here wanting to sell
something or asking for us to send them random information when
they've never even posted here before?


dear, troll; please send me 3 easy installments of 29.95 and i'll send
you information.


heh..



Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he was
very defensive.
He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.

While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news group
is and how it is used.
Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
know others may feel differently about it.
I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.

Mike


"Mydnight" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:26:54 GMT, Lasantha
> > wrote:
>
> >please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
> >manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
> >be pysical, cemical and biological.
>
> why is it that people from dragontalk always come here wanting to sell
> something or asking for us to send them random information when
> they've never even posted here before?
>
>
> dear, troll; please send me 3 easy installments of 29.95 and i'll send
> you information.
>
>
> heh..
>
>
>
> Mydnight
>
> --------------------
> thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades
of an endless night.

I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he was
very defensive.
He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.

While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news group
is and how it is used.
Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
know others may feel differently about it.
I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.

Mike


"Mydnight" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:26:54 GMT, Lasantha
> > wrote:
>
> >please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
> >manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
> >be pysical, cemical and biological.
>
> why is it that people from dragontalk always come here wanting to sell
> something or asking for us to send them random information when
> they've never even posted here before?
>
>
> dear, troll; please send me 3 easy installments of 29.95 and i'll send
> you information.
>
>
> heh..
>
>
>
> Mydnight
>
> --------------------
> thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades
of an endless night.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> wrote:

>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he was
>very defensive.
>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.

Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.

>
>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news group
>is and how it is used.
>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
>know others may feel differently about it.
>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.

I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
me. How about the rest of you?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> wrote:

>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he was
>very defensive.
>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.

Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.

>
>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news group
>is and how it is used.
>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
>know others may feel differently about it.
>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.

I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
me. How about the rest of you?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

In article >,
Mydnight > wrote:

> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> me. How about the rest of you?

i'm there. if this guy can't get it in his head that there are
conventions and a protocol for newsgroups and respect them,
he'll never get any business from me......p*

In article >,
Mydnight > wrote:

> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> me. How about the rest of you?

i'm there. if this guy can't get it in his head that there are
conventions and a protocol for newsgroups and respect them,
he'll never get any business from me......p*

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:06:14 GMT, Rebecca Ore wrote:

> In article >,
> Mydnight > wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>> me. How about the rest of you?
>
> Basically, it's going to depend on your news reader. I don't think all
> the sites in the world would cooperate enough to block TeaWrecks.
>
> My news reader will block on references, but not on originating sites.

<soapbox>

What I miss are the days when part of the message ID was consistent
for each individual. If you wanted to thunderplonk someone, you simply
delete all messages with that unique string in the message-id or
references headers. Boom. Problem solved.

Unfortunately, fewer and fewer providers function that way, and few
people are using a browser that lets them set such as string. Even
news.individual.net has started randomizing the message-id header.

So many people are ignoring the conventions that the system doesn't
work like it should.

</soapbox>
--
Derek

"There is a proverb. "As you have made your bed, so you must lie in
it, " which is simply a lie. If I have made my bed uncomfortable,
please God, I will make it again." -- G.K. Chesterson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:06:14 GMT, Rebecca Ore wrote:

> In article >,
> Mydnight > wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>> me. How about the rest of you?
>
> Basically, it's going to depend on your news reader. I don't think all
> the sites in the world would cooperate enough to block TeaWrecks.
>
> My news reader will block on references, but not on originating sites.

<soapbox>

What I miss are the days when part of the message ID was consistent
for each individual. If you wanted to thunderplonk someone, you simply
delete all messages with that unique string in the message-id or
references headers. Boom. Problem solved.

Unfortunately, fewer and fewer providers function that way, and few
people are using a browser that lets them set such as string. Even
news.individual.net has started randomizing the message-id header.

So many people are ignoring the conventions that the system doesn't
work like it should.

</soapbox>
--
Derek

"There is a proverb. "As you have made your bed, so you must lie in
it, " which is simply a lie. If I have made my bed uncomfortable,
please God, I will make it again." -- G.K. Chesterson

Maybe if we bombard the site owner with e-mails voicing our disapproval of
his interface (In a polite manner of course) And the fact that he will
receive no business from regular poster of this group than he might take a
hint.

Mike


"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:06:14 GMT, Rebecca Ore wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Mydnight > wrote:
> >
> >> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> >> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> >> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> >> me. How about the rest of you?
> >
> > Basically, it's going to depend on your news reader. I don't think all
> > the sites in the world would cooperate enough to block TeaWrecks.
> >
> > My news reader will block on references, but not on originating sites.
>
> <soapbox>
>
> What I miss are the days when part of the message ID was consistent
> for each individual. If you wanted to thunderplonk someone, you simply
> delete all messages with that unique string in the message-id or
> references headers. Boom. Problem solved.
>
> Unfortunately, fewer and fewer providers function that way, and few
> people are using a browser that lets them set such as string. Even
> news.individual.net has started randomizing the message-id header.
>
> So many people are ignoring the conventions that the system doesn't
> work like it should.
>
> </soapbox>
> --
> Derek
>
> "There is a proverb. "As you have made your bed, so you must lie in
> it, " which is simply a lie. If I have made my bed uncomfortable,
> please God, I will make it again." -- G.K. Chesterson

Maybe if we bombard the site owner with e-mails voicing our disapproval of
his interface (In a polite manner of course) And the fact that he will
receive no business from regular poster of this group than he might take a
hint.

Mike


"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:06:14 GMT, Rebecca Ore wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Mydnight > wrote:
> >
> >> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> >> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> >> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> >> me. How about the rest of you?
> >
> > Basically, it's going to depend on your news reader. I don't think all
> > the sites in the world would cooperate enough to block TeaWrecks.
> >
> > My news reader will block on references, but not on originating sites.
>
> <soapbox>
>
> What I miss are the days when part of the message ID was consistent
> for each individual. If you wanted to thunderplonk someone, you simply
> delete all messages with that unique string in the message-id or
> references headers. Boom. Problem solved.
>
> Unfortunately, fewer and fewer providers function that way, and few
> people are using a browser that lets them set such as string. Even
> news.individual.net has started randomizing the message-id header.
>
> So many people are ignoring the conventions that the system doesn't
> work like it should.
>
> </soapbox>
> --
> Derek
>
> "There is a proverb. "As you have made your bed, so you must lie in
> it, " which is simply a lie. If I have made my bed uncomfortable,
> please God, I will make it again." -- G.K. Chesterson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:09:58 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> wrote:

>Maybe if we bombard the site owner with e-mails voicing our disapproval of
>his interface (In a polite manner of course) And the fact that he will
>receive no business from regular poster of this group than he might take a
>hint.


I like it. How about 3000 emails? heh.

Or perhaps a partition?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:09:58 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> wrote:

>Maybe if we bombard the site owner with e-mails voicing our disapproval of
>his interface (In a polite manner of course) And the fact that he will
>receive no business from regular poster of this group than he might take a
>hint.


I like it. How about 3000 emails? heh.

Or perhaps a partition?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

I'm in!

Mike

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:09:58 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> > wrote:
>
> >Maybe if we bombard the site owner with e-mails voicing our disapproval
of
> >his interface (In a polite manner of course) And the fact that he will
> >receive no business from regular poster of this group than he might take
a
> >hint.
>
>
> I like it. How about 3000 emails? heh.
>
> Or perhaps a partition?
>
>
> Mydnight
>
> --------------------
> thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades
of an endless night.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:

> I'm in!

Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
the annoying.

The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.

I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.

--
Derek

SAM: Teal'c, how do Jaffa couples handle their problems?
TEAL'C: On Chulak, a dispute between a man and a woman that cannot
be resolved necessitates a pledge break. It must be requested
by one and granted by the other.
DANIEL: And if that doesn't work?
TEAL'C: A weapon is required.

(Stargate-SG1, "Affinity")

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:

> I'm in!

Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
the annoying.

The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.

I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.

--
Derek

SAM: Teal'c, how do Jaffa couples handle their problems?
TEAL'C: On Chulak, a dispute between a man and a woman that cannot
be resolved necessitates a pledge break. It must be requested
by one and granted by the other.
DANIEL: And if that doesn't work?
TEAL'C: A weapon is required.

(Stargate-SG1, "Affinity")

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:

> I'm in!

Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
the annoying.

The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.

I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.

--
Derek

SAM: Teal'c, how do Jaffa couples handle their problems?
TEAL'C: On Chulak, a dispute between a man and a woman that cannot
be resolved necessitates a pledge break. It must be requested
by one and granted by the other.
DANIEL: And if that doesn't work?
TEAL'C: A weapon is required.

(Stargate-SG1, "Affinity")

> >please, send me about tea contaminance pathways of tea
> >manufacturing and processiong industry. Contaminance could
> >be pysical, cemical and biological.
>
> why is it that people from dragontalk always come here wanting to sell
> something or asking for us to send them random information when
> they've never even posted here before?

Actually, this doesn't look like a troll, or perhaps I don't understand the
term's nuances. It reads more like someone hoping we'll write his/her term
paper. In which case, $29.95x3 might be a little on the cheap side.

JMJO (just my jaded opinion)

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:
>
> > I'm in!
>
> Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
> the annoying.
>
> The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
> site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
> newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.
>
> I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.

I surfed there and found the following:

"Please read the Newsgroup FAQ before posting.

This is a free web interface to the alt.tea and rec.food.drink.tea
newsgroups.

This service is unmoderated (except by spam filters). Use at your own risk.

Sponsored by the Dragonwater Tea Company."


One problem that I see is that it doesn't clearly state that it's a Usenet
newsgroup.
The other problem is that the link to the Newsgroup FAQ merely acts as a
search and only lists the posts relating to the FAQ - it doesn't link to the
FAQ itself.

One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?


--
~~Bluesea~~"All rights reserved."
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:
>
> > I'm in!
>
> Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
> the annoying.
>
> The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
> site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
> newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.
>
> I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.

I surfed there and found the following:

"Please read the Newsgroup FAQ before posting.

This is a free web interface to the alt.tea and rec.food.drink.tea
newsgroups.

This service is unmoderated (except by spam filters). Use at your own risk.

Sponsored by the Dragonwater Tea Company."


One problem that I see is that it doesn't clearly state that it's a Usenet
newsgroup.
The other problem is that the link to the Newsgroup FAQ merely acts as a
search and only lists the posts relating to the FAQ - it doesn't link to the
FAQ itself.

One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?


--
~~Bluesea~~"All rights reserved."
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> > wrote:
>
> >I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he
was
> >very defensive.
> >He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>
> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>
> >
> >While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
group
> >is and how it is used.
> >Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
> >know others may feel differently about it.
> >I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>
> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> me. How about the rest of you?

I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since his is
a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or customers.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Mydnight" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> > wrote:
>
> >I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he
was
> >very defensive.
> >He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>
> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>
> >
> >While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
group
> >is and how it is used.
> >Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
> >know others may feel differently about it.
> >I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>
> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> me. How about the rest of you?

I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since his is
a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or customers.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:39:47 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:32 -0800, Mike Boucher wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in!
>>
>> Now, now. Let us not engage in illegal activity in an attempt to stop
>> the annoying.
>>
>> The interface isn't the problem. The lack of explanation is. The
>> site's visitors obviously think that the shop owners monitor the
>> newsgroup. They don't. That should be made much more clear.
>>
>> I believe that this would, in fact, clear up a lot of the confusion.
>
> I surfed there and found the following:
>
> "Please read the Newsgroup FAQ before posting.
>
> This is a free web interface to the alt.tea and rec.food.drink.tea
> newsgroups.
>
> This service is unmoderated (except by spam filters). Use at your own risk.
>
> Sponsored by the Dragonwater Tea Company."

"Unmoderated" does not mean "Unread." Unmoderated web forums allow
anything to be posted, but that doesn't mean that the host of the
forum doesn't participate.

In this case, the "service" is not only "unmoderated", it is
"unmonitored" - that is, The folks at Dragonwater aren't going to pay
attention to questions posted about their teas.

And those of us who are unassociated with Dragonwater aren't going to
be able to answer those questions, either.


> One problem that I see is that it doesn't clearly state that it's a Usenet
> newsgroup.
> The other problem is that the link to the Newsgroup FAQ merely acts as a
> search and only lists the posts relating to the FAQ - it doesn't link to the
> FAQ itself.
>
> One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
> That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
> site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
> i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?

Sure, I can spell it. But this isn't it.

Providing a web based interface for accessing newsgroups isn't
infringement. Google does it (much to the chagrin of those of us who
realize that "Google Groups" aren't "Google owned"). News2web.com does
it as well.

The problem here isn't infringment, it's spam due to
misrepresentation. People are using the interface to post messages
that should actually go directly to the owners of the shop, and not
out to the rest of the word who is unassociated with the store and
cannot answer the questions.

--
Derek

"You'd be amazed at the number of people who want to introduce
themselves to you in the men's room. It's the most bizarre part of
this entire thing." - Senator John F. Kerry, speaking on "The Daily
Show" about life as a presidential candidate.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he
> was
>>>very defensive.
>>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>>
>> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
>> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
>> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>>
>>>
>>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
> group
>>>is and how it is used.
>>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
>>>know others may feel differently about it.
>>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>>
>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>> me. How about the rest of you?
>
> I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since his is
> a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or customers.

How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
NNTP server?

--
Derek

There is an island of opportunity in the middle of every difficulty.
Miss that, though, and you're pretty much doomed.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and he
> was
>>>very defensive.
>>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>>
>> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
>> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
>> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>>
>>>
>>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
> group
>>>is and how it is used.
>>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion. I
>>>know others may feel differently about it.
>>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>>
>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>> me. How about the rest of you?
>
> I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since his is
> a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or customers.

How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
NNTP server?

--
Derek

There is an island of opportunity in the middle of every difficulty.
Miss that, though, and you're pretty much doomed.

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>
> > "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and
he
> > was
> >>>very defensive.
> >>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
> >>
> >> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
> >> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
> >> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
> > group
> >>>is and how it is used.
> >>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion.
I
> >>>know others may feel differently about it.
> >>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> >> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> >> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> >> me. How about the rest of you?
> >
> > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
his is
> > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
customers.
>
> How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
> newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
> NNTP server?

If he's violating their Terms...and Google's the best judge of that.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>
> > "Mydnight" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and
he
> > was
> >>>very defensive.
> >>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
> >>
> >> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
> >> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
> >> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
> > group
> >>>is and how it is used.
> >>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion.
I
> >>>know others may feel differently about it.
> >>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
> >> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
> >> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
> >> me. How about the rest of you?
> >
> > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
his is
> > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
customers.
>
> How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
> newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
> NNTP server?

If he's violating their Terms...and Google's the best judge of that.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Derek" > wrote in message

> > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
his is
> > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
customers.

Google does the law now ?

> How would emailing Google affect anything?

Dragonwater is doing the same thing as Google, they are commercial websites
giving access to usenet. The question is if we can blame them for having
clueless users that more or less believe Dragonwater and Google are the
names of 2 cool guys that answer to their questions.

Kuri

"Derek" > wrote in message

> > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
his is
> > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
customers.

Google does the law now ?

> How would emailing Google affect anything?

Dragonwater is doing the same thing as Google, they are commercial websites
giving access to usenet. The question is if we can blame them for having
clueless users that more or less believe Dragonwater and Google are the
names of 2 cool guys that answer to their questions.

Kuri

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:39:47 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
> That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
> site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
> i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?

Notwithstanding that Tea Talk's link is a pain in the ass for us, their
use is not copyright infringement inasmuch as all material posted on usenet
is in the public domain. (the exception being the obvious: permissive use
of formerly copyrighted material, clearly marked as "copyright etc.").

That doesn't stop it from being a nuisance...

Perhaps a weekly post with a subject header noting that this is not a Tea
Talk forum and listing the URLs of his competitors might get the dirtbag
owner's attention.
--
Cordially,

Sonam Dasara
1/14/2005 11:11:47 AM
dovekeeper+at+electric-ink+dot+com

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:39:47 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
> That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
> site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
> i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?

Notwithstanding that Tea Talk's link is a pain in the ass for us, their
use is not copyright infringement inasmuch as all material posted on usenet
is in the public domain. (the exception being the obvious: permissive use
of formerly copyrighted material, clearly marked as "copyright etc.").

That doesn't stop it from being a nuisance...

Perhaps a weekly post with a subject header noting that this is not a Tea
Talk forum and listing the URLs of his competitors might get the dirtbag
owner's attention.
--
Cordially,

Sonam Dasara
1/14/2005 11:11:47 AM
dovekeeper+at+electric-ink+dot+com

"kuri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Derek" > wrote in message
>
> > > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
> his is
> > > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
> customers.
>
> Google does the law now ?
>
> > How would emailing Google affect anything?
>
> Dragonwater is doing the same thing as Google, they are commercial
websites
> giving access to usenet. The question is if we can blame them for having
> clueless users that more or less believe Dragonwater and Google are the
> names of 2 cool guys that answer to their questions.

Yabut, yabut. Since Groups Help has a "How can I promote my group on my own
website?" that says how to get HTML code to let people browse a group and
how to subscribe to it, I decided it was worth a shot.

After all, we *are* listed in GG and there's a chance that the Team will at
least be able to provide some advice on how we could handle dragonwater.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"kuri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Derek" > wrote in message
>
> > > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
> his is
> > > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
> customers.
>
> Google does the law now ?
>
> > How would emailing Google affect anything?
>
> Dragonwater is doing the same thing as Google, they are commercial
websites
> giving access to usenet. The question is if we can blame them for having
> clueless users that more or less believe Dragonwater and Google are the
> names of 2 cool guys that answer to their questions.

Yabut, yabut. Since Groups Help has a "How can I promote my group on my own
website?" that says how to get HTML code to let people browse a group and
how to subscribe to it, I decided it was worth a shot.

After all, we *are* listed in GG and there's a chance that the Team will at
least be able to provide some advice on how we could handle dragonwater.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:15:07 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>>
>>> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and
> he
>>> was
>>>>>very defensive.
>>>>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>>>>
>>>> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
>>>> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
>>>> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
>>> group
>>>>>is and how it is used.
>>>>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion.
> I
>>>>>know others may feel differently about it.
>>>>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>>>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>>>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>>>> me. How about the rest of you?
>>>
>>> I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
> his is
>>> a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
> customers.
>>
>> How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
>> newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
>> NNTP server?
>
> If he's violating their Terms...and Google's the best judge of that.

Their terms only apply if he is using their service. They are not the
only source for HTML based newsgroup access.

And the TeaTalk posts are coming from uswest.net servers, not google.

--
Derek

Failu When your best just isn't good enough.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:15:07 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:57:29 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>>
>>> "Mydnight" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:00:55 -0800, "Mike Boucher"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I emailed the owner on Dragonwater Tea my opinions about tea talk and
> he
>>> was
>>>>>very defensive.
>>>>>He stated we should all try and help the new people to tea.
>>>>
>>>> Granted, but this isn't a forum for him to embellish his site to look
>>>> more interesting or for us to provide a service to his clientele,
>>>> this is a newsgroup and should be treated as such.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>While I agree I also told him he should explain more about what a news
>>> group
>>>>>is and how it is used.
>>>>>Personally I feel it is cheesy on his part but that is only my opinion.
> I
>>>>>know others may feel differently about it.
>>>>>I don't ever see myself purchasing anything from his site though.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't mind some sort of ban on his site or at least some kind of
>>>> filtering process so we get less 'spam-like' messages. I'm not much
>>>> to quibble over things like this normally, but it's starting to bother
>>>> me. How about the rest of you?
>>>
>>> I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
> his is
>>> a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
> customers.
>>
>> How would emailing Google affect anything? Is the store coopting their
>> newsgroup feed for the site, or is it being taken from an independent
>> NNTP server?
>
> If he's violating their Terms...and Google's the best judge of that.

Their terms only apply if he is using their service. They are not the
only source for HTML based newsgroup access.

And the TeaTalk posts are coming from uswest.net servers, not google.

--
Derek

Failu When your best just isn't good enough.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:34:25 GMT, Bluesea wrote:

> "kuri" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Derek" > wrote in message
>>
>>> > I emailed Google asking if he's violating their Terms of Use #4 since
>> his is
>>> > a commercial site and we don't exist to service his website or
>> customers.
>>
>> Google does the law now ?
>>
>>> How would emailing Google affect anything?
>>
>> Dragonwater is doing the same thing as Google, they are commercial
> websites
>> giving access to usenet. The question is if we can blame them for having
>> clueless users that more or less believe Dragonwater and Google are the
>> names of 2 cool guys that answer to their questions.
>
> Yabut, yabut. Since Groups Help has a "How can I promote my group on my own
> website?" that says how to get HTML code to let people browse a group and
> how to subscribe to it, I decided it was worth a shot.

Yabut, yabut. Google isn't the only place to get HTML access to
newsgroups.

> After all, we *are* listed in GG and there's a chance that the Team will at
> least be able to provide some advice on how we could handle dragonwater.

So? Unless Dragonwater is actually getting code or messages from
Google, Google has no say in the matter.

--
Derek

The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly.

"Sonam Dasara" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:39:47 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>
> > One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
> > That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on
his
> > site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
> > i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?
>
> Notwithstanding that Tea Talk's link is a pain in the ass for us, their
> use is not copyright infringement inasmuch as all material posted on
usenet
> is in the public domain. (the exception being the obvious: permissive use
> of formerly copyrighted material, clearly marked as "copyright etc.").

That's something I never understood. Why is posted material considered to be
in the public domain? U.S. copyright law states that rights are retained
unless specific notice is made to put it in the p.d. yet I know that
publishers consider posts to be in the public domain, also.

> That doesn't stop it from being a nuisance...
>
> Perhaps a weekly post with a subject header noting that this is not a Tea
> Talk forum and listing the URLs of his competitors might get the dirtbag
> owner's attention.

The home page has a list of 5 subjects. If no one's monitoring the TeaTalk
page, maybe they'll notice it on the home page.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:18:28 -0500, Sonam Dasara wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 14:39:47 GMT, Bluesea wrote:
>
>> One thing that I like is that our bitching and moaning is on his site.
>> That's why I changed the Subject. After all, he is using our posts on his
>> site w/o our permission - can anybody spell, "c-o-p-y-r-i-g-h-t
>> i-n-f-r-i-n-g-e-m-e-n-t"?
>
> Notwithstanding that Tea Talk's link is a pain in the ass for us, their
> use is not copyright infringement inasmuch as all material posted on usenet
> is in the public domain. (the exception being the obvious: permissive use
> of formerly copyrighted material, clearly marked as "copyright etc.").

Actually, it's not copyright infringement because as soon as someone
clicks the "send" or "post" button, they are consenting to have their
writing distributed on NNTP servers around the world. And they have no
say in what software agent is used to read that message - be it
free-standing software or a HTML interface, or about who gets to read
it.

The content of those messages, however, is copyrighted just like any
other written work. How something is described or written about on
Usenet is the intellectual property of the originator - although the
idea itself has no such protection save a patent.

> That doesn't stop it from being a nuisance...

Oh, A-freakin'-men!

> Perhaps a weekly post with a subject header noting that this is not a Tea
> Talk forum and listing the URLs of his competitors might get the dirtbag
> owner's attention.

As we've already seen, the owner doesn't seem to even be monitoring
the messages. Spamming our group to get her/his/their attention isn't
a solution.

--
Derek

Luck can't last a lifetime unless you die young.