Hi all

Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
favorite green teas. Since I wanted to avoid the consumption of too much
caffeine in the late evening I left the Tea Leaves overnight in their
tea sieve. One hour ago (i.e. 18 hours after the first infusion) I
steeped them for the 2nd time. Water Temperature was 80 °C and steeping
time 2 Minutes (I've always used these values for the second steep with
this tea). Usually the second steep provides good pot, not as delicious
as the first steep, but still enjoyable.

This time I only sipped from the first cup (and again...after i allowed
the tea to cool off a little), found it unacceptable and tipped it away.
It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.

I suspect that this has something to do with the drying out of the tea
leaves....but I am not sure (and i don't want to waste more of my
beloved Sencha for another attempt ;-))

Did anyone ever experience something like this (and has a theory on why
this happens)? And what could i do to prevent this loss of flavour? Put
them in the refridgerator...?

thanks in advance
Patrick

--
In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:22:18 -0600, Patrick Heinze wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
> favorite green teas. Since I wanted to avoid the consumption of too much
> caffeine in the late evening I left the Tea Leaves overnight in their
> tea sieve. One hour ago (i.e. 18 hours after the first infusion) I
> steeped them for the 2nd time. Water Temperature was 80 °C and steeping
> time 2 Minutes (I've always used these values for the second steep with
> this tea). Usually the second steep provides good pot, not as delicious
> as the first steep, but still enjoyable.
>
> This time I only sipped from the first cup (and again...after i allowed
> the tea to cool off a little), found it unacceptable and tipped it away.
> It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
> second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.
>
> I suspect that this has something to do with the drying out of the tea
> leaves....but I am not sure (and i don't want to waste more of my
> beloved Sencha for another attempt ;-))
>
> Did anyone ever experience something like this (and has a theory on why
> this happens)? And what could i do to prevent this loss of flavour? Put
> them in the refridgerator...?

I have no theories but I have noticed that if you don't do a subsequent
steep within a couple of hours that the resulting brew will be less than
optimal. I've never tried using leaves 18 hours after the first steep
however, so I can't comment on your particular situation.

> thanks in advance
> Patrick

J

John > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:22:18 -0600, Patrick Heinze wrote:

>> Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
>> favorite green teas. Since I wanted to avoid the consumption of too much
>> caffeine in the late evening I left the Tea Leaves overnight in their
>> tea sieve. One hour ago (i.e. 18 hours after the first infusion) I
>> steeped them for the 2nd time.
>>
>> This time I only sipped from the first cup (and again...after i allowed
>> the tea to cool off a little), found it unacceptable and tipped it away.
>> It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
>> second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.
>
> I have no theories but I have noticed that if you don't do a subsequent
> steep within a couple of hours that the resulting brew will be less than
> optimal. I've never tried using leaves 18 hours after the first steep
> however, so I can't comment on your particular situation.

In my experience, 18 hours is too long to wait. Overnight, in general,
is too long. I would throw out already-infused tea leaves after four
or five hours if they haven't been reused yet.

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Patrick Heinze > wrote in message >. ..
> Hi all
>
> Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
> favorite green teas. Since I wanted to avoid the consumption of too much
> caffeine in the late evening I left the Tea Leaves overnight in their
> tea sieve. One hour ago (i.e. 18 hours after the first infusion) I
> steeped them for the 2nd time. Water Temperature was 80 °C and steeping
> time 2 Minutes (I've always used these values for the second steep with
> this tea). Usually the second steep provides good pot, not as delicious
> as the first steep, but still enjoyable.

I had the same experience even after 3 hours of my first infusion.

> This time I only sipped from the first cup (and again...after i allowed
> the tea to cool off a little), found it unacceptable and tipped it away.
> It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
> second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.

Flat. Humm sounds familier. About second infusion my personal opinion
is steeping time should be little longer.
>
> I suspect that this has something to do with the drying out of the tea
> leaves....but I am not sure (and i don't want to waste more of my
> beloved Sencha for another attempt ;-))

there are some chemical reaction with air.
>
> Did anyone ever experience something like this (and has a theory on why
> this happens)? And what could i do to prevent this loss of flavour? Put
> them in the refridgerator...?

I tried three times with black,green and Oolong same outcome-flat and
taste lighter.

Ripon
(From Bangladesh)

"Ripon" > wrote in message
om...
> Patrick Heinze > wrote in message
>. ..
> > Hi all
> >
> > Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
> > favorite green teas. Since I wanted to avoid the consumption of too much
> > caffeine in the late evening I left the Tea Leaves overnight in their
> > tea sieve. One hour ago (i.e. 18 hours after the first infusion) I
> > steeped them for the 2nd time. Water Temperature was 80 °C and steeping
> > time 2 Minutes (I've always used these values for the second steep with
> > this tea). Usually the second steep provides good pot, not as delicious
> > as the first steep, but still enjoyable.
>
> I had the same experience even after 3 hours of my first infusion.
>
> > This time I only sipped from the first cup (and again...after i allowed
> > the tea to cool off a little), found it unacceptable and tipped it away.
> > It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
> > second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.
>
> Flat. Humm sounds familier. About second infusion my personal opinion
> is steeping time should be little longer.
> >
> > I suspect that this has something to do with the drying out of the tea
> > leaves....but I am not sure (and i don't want to waste more of my
> > beloved Sencha for another attempt ;-))
>
> there are some chemical reaction with air.
> >
> > Did anyone ever experience something like this (and has a theory on why
> > this happens)? And what could i do to prevent this loss of flavour? Put
> > them in the refridgerator...?
>
> I tried three times with black,green and Oolong same outcome-flat and
> taste lighter.
>
> Ripon
> (From Bangladesh)

I've second-infused good quality Chinese oolongs as much as a day or two
after the first without any noticable flavor degradation. Now, perhaps
that's just a function of my lack of discernment, but it works for me.

Regards,
Dean

I think this may have to do with the overall "fresh" quality of Japanese teas.
Being greener in appearance, and gently and minimally processed compared to
Chinese greens, I would expect they have more to lose over a shorter time span.

I've prepared 2nd and 3rd infusions of Chinese greens the next day, and some
fall off and others don't. Note that leaf/water ratio may have something to do
with this too.

I think oolongs are another story, and can handle many hours between steeps
better than greens overall. My 2 cents.

Joe

Joseph 11/17/03


> I think this may have to do with the overall "fresh" quality of Japanese teas.
> Being greener in appearance, and gently and minimally processed compared to
> Chinese greens, I would expect they have more to lose over a shorter time
> span.
>
> I've prepared 2nd and 3rd infusions of Chinese greens the next day, and some
> fall off and others don't. Note that leaf/water ratio may have something to
> do
> with this too.
>
> I think oolongs are another story, and can handle many hours between steeps
> better than greens overall. My 2 cents.
>
> Joe

I just got three steeps -- excellent, good, fair -- out of my sample of
Imperial Tea Court's Imperial Yunnan Gold. *Some* might say I failed in my
first steep as evidenced by the "success" of the second and third. But, hey,
I'm just a poor country boy.

Michael

Michael Plant > wrote in message
>
> I just got three steeps -- excellent, good, fair -- out of my sample of
> Imperial Tea Court's Imperial Yunnan Gold. *Some* might say I failed in my
> first steep as evidenced by the "success" of the second and third. But, hey,
> I'm just a poor country boy.
>
> Michael


Michael:

You talked about three steeps but didn't talk about the time
differences. I am also having ITC's Yunnan Gold but I didn't dare to
steeps more then twice and within an hour.

Ripon
(From Bangladesh)

Hi Patrick,

> Yesterday evening I perpared an infusion of a Sencha Kyoto, one of my
> favorite green teas.
.....
> Usually the second steep provides good pot, not as delicious
> as the first steep, but still enjoyable.

Usually, that sort of tea is infused only once. Many Japanese let the leaves
of the 1st infusion in the teapot and add a second spoon of leaves for a
second infusion, but that's to save chore of cleaning the pot, as the first
leaves are nearly neutral.

> It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
> second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.

In fact, that's the contrary, the higher end ryoku cha (Japanese green
teas) tend to produce completely white second infusions.They give nearly
100% of the flavor/perfume/color in the first 30 seconds.

> I suspect that this has something to do with the drying out of the tea
> leaves....

Yes, the process and the choice of leaves.
So if you want green teas for multiple infusions, you'd better try other
sorts, like Chinese Longjin. They are completely different, in that case,
the best ones are those that produce the more infusions.

A way to "save" on your sencha is to blend it with 1/3 of tea stems
(kukicha), the taste is slightly modified. But I don't know how much you pay
the kukicha. In Osaka, they often add it for free if you are a regular
customer.

> Did anyone ever experience something like this (and has a theory on why
> this happens)? And what could i do to prevent this loss of flavour? Put
> them in the refridgerator...?

I don't think there is a solution. If you like the second infusion, why
don't you put half the usual quantity of leaves in the pot and infuse it
twice back to back ?

Kuri

11/18/03


> Michael Plant > wrote in message
>>
>> I just got three steeps -- excellent, good, fair -- out of my sample of
>> Imperial Tea Court's Imperial Yunnan Gold. *Some* might say I failed in my
>> first steep as evidenced by the "success" of the second and third. But, hey,
>> I'm just a poor country boy.
>>
>> Michael
>
>
> Michael:
>
> You talked about three steeps but didn't talk about the time
> differences. I am also having ITC's Yunnan Gold but I didn't dare to
> steeps more then twice and within an hour.


Dare. No one need know about your failures except you. I brewed the second
over 5 minutes and the third over 10. I don't take those aftersteeps too
seriously and I don't really expect much. Sometimes 15-20 minutes just to
squeeze a little more pleasure out of the leaves. I usually start with
somewhat more than most people's recommended amount of leaf though.

Michael

cc wrote:
>
> Patrick wrote:
> > It tasted flat, more like hot water than tea...maybe the same as the
> > second infusion of less good green teas would taste like.
>
> In fact, that's the contrary, the higher end ryoku cha (Japanese green
> teas) tend to produce completely white second infusions.They give nearly
> 100% of the flavor/perfume/color in the first 30 seconds.

Completely white second infusions? You mean clear and colorless? This
just isn't the case. Disagree about the full flavor in 30 seconds claim
as well. I steep my best Japanese greens at least 1 minute, generally.

--crymad

Michael Plant > Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:41:28 GMT wrote
....

. com11/18/03

>
>
>Dare. No one need know about your failures except you.

Why ?
An Ordinary man learns from his own mistakes.
The wisdom ones from mistakes of others....


--
"Libor the Wanderer" >
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