No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well. The
pucker disappears immediately in subsequent infusions. I dont have
any problems if that is the way it is. However if YMV Id like to know
why. If the answer is spend more money I can live with the unpleasant
first cup.

Jim

Space Cowboy > writes:

> No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
> temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
> several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well.

What's the shortest time you've tried for the first steep?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I pour the water on the leaves in the Pavina and start sipping off the
top in about a minute. The last sip off the bottom is a hair raiser.
Obviously in a pot the water is more diluted and the taste is somewhat
mitigated but still present when leaves are absent. If youre
suggesting the first cup is a wash then I can live with that. These
are the only leaves that give me trouble with the Pavina.

Jim

On Nov 26, 8:31 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Space Cowboy > writes:
> > No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
> > temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
> > several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well.
>
> What's the shortest time you've tried for the first steep?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Space Cowboy > writes:

>
> On Nov 26, 8:31 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > Space Cowboy > writes:
> > > No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
> > > temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
> > > several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well.
> >
> > What's the shortest time you've tried for the first steep?
> >
> I pour the water on the leaves in the Pavina and start sipping off the
> top in about a minute. The last sip off the bottom is a hair raiser.
> Obviously in a pot the water is more diluted and the taste is somewhat
> mitigated but still present when leaves are absent. If youre
> suggesting the first cup is a wash then I can live with that. These
> are the only leaves that give me trouble with the Pavina.

"The last sip": that's a giveaway. By the time you're done sipping,
the leaves have been cooking in that glass for too long. Try pouring
off the tea liquor from the brewing vessel before you drink it. I
know it's fun watching the leaves dance in the glass, but taste trumps
appearance, right?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I think it is a signature taste having something to do with quality or
maybe something in the water seriously. One of these days I might
fork out the big bucks for the top grades and see if the taste
persists. Its just these two and the first cup. I can mitigate by
decanting but I still taste it. Ceylon greens come close but I have
to let them brew awhile. If someone tells me their average Sencha or
WL taste the same way, sipped off the top or decanted within a minute
Id feel better.

Jim

On Nov 26, 9:40 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Space Cowboy > writes:
>
> > On Nov 26, 8:31 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > > Space Cowboy > writes:
> > > > No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
> > > > temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
> > > > several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well.
>
> > > What's the shortest time you've tried for the first steep?
>
> > I pour the water on the leaves in the Pavina and start sipping off the
> > top in about a minute. The last sip off the bottom is a hair raiser.
> > Obviously in a pot the water is more diluted and the taste is somewhat
> > mitigated but still present when leaves are absent. If youre
> > suggesting the first cup is a wash then I can live with that. These
> > are the only leaves that give me trouble with the Pavina.
>
> "The last sip": that's a giveaway. By the time you're done sipping,
> the leaves have been cooking in that glass for too long. Try pouring
> off the tea liquor from the brewing vessel before you drink it. I
> know it's fun watching the leaves dance in the glass, but taste trumps
> appearance, right?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

On Nov 26, 12:10*pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I think it is a signature taste having something to do with quality or
> maybe something in the water seriously. *One of these days I might
> fork out the big bucks for the top grades and see if the taste
> persists. *Its just these two and the first cup. *I can mitigate by
> decanting but I still taste it. *Ceylon greens come close but I have
> to let them brew awhile. *If someone tells me their average Sencha or
> WL taste the same way, sipped off the top or decanted within a minute
> Id feel better.
>
> Jim

I know you've mentioned your brewing technique before, and if you'd
prefer to not change it to better match the tea I have two
suggestions:

1. Use very little leaf, like 1/4 or even less than usual. I often do
this in a Bodum French press-like double walled polycarbonate travel
mug I use in the mornings during my commute. I will put in say 1/2 to
3/4tsp green tea to 3/4 full mug of water which is like 12-14 oz. I'd
bet. Similar to tea jars carried by many. I then ca often get an
additional brew by leaving the "root" or last 2-4oz. and adding more
water. It never gets overly strong and is very good for the total lack
of care or time.

2. Try some different tea. Sencha doesn't really work well for this
type of brewing. I often get away with BLC, yellow tea like Huang Shan
Huo Ya, or a jasmine green. The BLC and Huang Shan Huo Ya especially
do well because they are mellow to begin with and don't ever get
really bitter or strong. Gyokuro is another one but a bit expensive to
treat in this manner. Anything lighter green and with more of a nutty
note to the grassy ones will handle it better.

Sometimes I have to bend the tea to my will too at times, but some
teas are too strong and will not bend, in those cases I do.

- Dominic

So your view Sencha is a strong tea. I always assumed the opposite
since the leaf is paper thin. Maybe that gives it a little more
bite. In fact, I couldnt tell the difference between Sencha and WL.
I guesstimate my teas but I can say I always end up with about the
same leaf volume for the greens. Ill have to cut WAY back. If youre
drinking yours 'weak' thats a start for me. The agony of the leaves
might be reduced to you bad bad leaves. I know any brewing technique
is a compromise. This is my first au contraire.

Jim

On Nov 26, 9:28 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I pour the water on the leaves in the Pavina and start sipping off the
> top in about a minute. The last sip off the bottom is a hair raiser.
> Obviously in a pot the water is more diluted and the taste is somewhat
> mitigated but still present when leaves are absent. If youre
> suggesting the first cup is a wash then I can live with that. These
> are the only leaves that give me trouble with the Pavina.
>
> Jim
>
> On Nov 26, 8:31 am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > Space Cowboy > writes:
> > > No matter what I do with brewing parameters including water
> > > temperature I cant get rid of a harshness in the first cup from
> > > several commercial brands of Sencha and West Lake Dragon Well.
>
> > What's the shortest time you've tried for the first steep?
>
> > /Lew
> > ---
> > Lew Perin /

On Nov 26, 2:01*pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> So your view Sencha is a strong tea. *I always assumed the opposite
> since the leaf is paper thin. *Maybe that gives it a little more
> bite. *In fact, I couldnt tell the difference between Sencha and WL.
> I guesstimate my teas but I can say I always end up with about the
> same leaf volume for the greens. *Ill have to cut WAY back. *If youre
> drinking yours 'weak' thats a start for me. *The agony of the leaves
> might be reduced to you bad bad leaves. *I know any brewing technique
> is a compromise. *This is my first au contraire.
>
> Jim

I'm not sure who the reply is to, but I'll chime back in

Yes, sencha is strong flavorwise and does get bitter as do many
Chinese greens. That is the trick, to pick teas that don't overbrew
easily or at least don't turn extremely bitter. Dragonwell can range
quite a wide spectrum so it is impossible to say what any one
particular one is like. Some are lighter and nuttier (would work well)
and some are a bit darker green and harsher (not so good for this type
of brewing). Yellow tea can be had pretty inexpensively and it
exhibits much of the flavor of a good green while being perfect for
exactly what you want.

- Dominic

I find green teas have a broad taste range but not harshness relating
to the same weight or volume except in this case. I expect strengths
of blacks to vary which is a function of grade size. In oolongs the
oxidation can vary which contributes to the perception of strength
which I call boldness. When it comes to a particular tea like
Dragonwell the taste can vary but not the strenght. Its been awhile
but Imperial Gunpowder gave me the wee bee gee bees and if I remember
right the posts always ended up talking about potency. If push comes
to shove I can pull out a Bodum tea press with a cropped plunger. Nah
I like my tiny tea bowl with unlimited perspective. I cant say either
tea brews the most wholesome leaves Ive seen. It never occurred to me
the thin leaves released the good and bad at the same rate.

Jim

PS When you post from the top all posts look the same.


On Nov 26, 2:55 pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2:01 pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
> > So your view Sencha is a strong tea. I always assumed the opposite
> > since the leaf is paper thin. Maybe that gives it a little more
> > bite. In fact, I couldnt tell the difference between Sencha and WL.
> > I guesstimate my teas but I can say I always end up with about the
> > same leaf volume for the greens. Ill have to cut WAY back. If youre
> > drinking yours 'weak' thats a start for me. The agony of the leaves
> > might be reduced to you bad bad leaves. I know any brewing technique
> > is a compromise. This is my first au contraire.
>
> > Jim
>
> I'm not sure who the reply is to, but I'll chime back in
>
> Yes, sencha is strong flavorwise and does get bitter as do many
> Chinese greens. That is the trick, to pick teas that don't overbrew
> easily or at least don't turn extremely bitter. Dragonwell can range
> quite a wide spectrum so it is impossible to say what any one
> particular one is like. Some are lighter and nuttier (would work well)
> and some are a bit darker green and harsher (not so good for this type
> of brewing). Yellow tea can be had pretty inexpensively and it
> exhibits much of the flavor of a good green while being perfect for
> exactly what you want.
>
> - Dominic

On Nov 26, 5:59*pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I find green teas have a broad taste range but not harshness relating
> to the same weight or volume except in this case. *I expect strengths
> of blacks to vary which is a function of grade size. *In oolongs the
> oxidation can vary which contributes to the perception of strength
> which I call boldness. *When it comes to a particular tea like
> Dragonwell the taste can vary but not the strenght. Its been awhile
> but Imperial Gunpowder gave me the wee bee gee bees and if I remember
> right the posts always ended up talking about potency. *If push comes
> to shove I can pull out a Bodum tea press with a cropped plunger. Nah
> I like my tiny tea bowl with unlimited perspective. *I cant say either
> tea brews the most wholesome leaves Ive seen. *It never occurred to me
> the thin leaves released the good and bad at the same rate.
>
> Jim
>
> PS *When you post from the top all posts look the same.

Man you are a nebulous one. I'm way too tired for analysis so I'll do
my best. Gunpowder in my opinion is always bad, even at its best it is
bad. You're fine with your Pavina just use less leaf and let it brew a
bit longer at first and then it will naturally continue to brew as you
sip and should stay palatable the entire time.

- Dominic

With a little help from my friends I came up with a new category for
teas like Sencha and Dragonwell even though steaming isnt the same as
drying. I call them quick release teas in the sense they dont hold
back anything including Imperial Gunpowder which I always thought was
something else. I dont know of any more teas that have an up yours
quality. I think most green teas are more demure and reserved.

Jim

PS Im violating the 25 word rule of my philosophy professor but there
was an aphorism that if you repeat yourself say it differently because
nobody understood you to begin with. Im going to bed having developed
another appreciation for tea.

On Nov 26, 5:19 pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Nov 26, 5:59 pm, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> > I find green teas have a broad taste range but not harshness relating
> > to the same weight or volume except in this case. I expect strengths
> > of blacks to vary which is a function of grade size. In oolongs the
> > oxidation can vary which contributes to the perception of strength
> > which I call boldness. When it comes to a particular tea like
> > Dragonwell the taste can vary but not the strenght. Its been awhile
> > but Imperial Gunpowder gave me the wee bee gee bees and if I remember
> > right the posts always ended up talking about potency. If push comes
> > to shove I can pull out a Bodum tea press with a cropped plunger. Nah
> > I like my tiny tea bowl with unlimited perspective. I cant say either
> > tea brews the most wholesome leaves Ive seen. It never occurred to me
> > the thin leaves released the good and bad at the same rate.
>
> > Jim
>
> > PS When you post from the top all posts look the same.
>
> Man you are a nebulous one. I'm way too tired for analysis so I'll do
> my best. Gunpowder in my opinion is always bad, even at its best it is
> bad. You're fine with your Pavina just use less leaf and let it brew a
> bit longer at first and then it will naturally continue to brew as you
> sip and should stay palatable the entire time.
>
> - Dominic