Imperial Tea Court just advertised this Wuyi Shui Xian tea cake in
their Sept newsletter.

http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...Category_ID=14

I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. I've never had aged wuyi tea
from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
thoughts on this cake or how to age it?

On Sep 23, 12:30*pm, TokyoB > wrote:
> Imperial Tea Court just advertised this Wuyi Shui Xian tea cake in
> their Sept newsletter.
>
> http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...ID=2&Product_I....
>
> I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. *I've never had aged wuyi tea
> from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
> making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
> thoughts on this cake or how to age it?

I have to admit this is a new one to me. I am also severely tempted to
buy one. I really enjoy the super-highly roasted Shi Xians (like bits
of charcoal) and I would imagine this would be less charcoal-y and
more flavorful.

As for storing... My initial reaction from reading would be to
continue the yearly slow/low refiring process but since that is ot of
the question for most I would imagine that storing it like a Puerh but
in a much drier environment or with dessicant.

I wish there was a way to try a sample before dropping $120 though.
I'd buy a 1/4 to a 1/2 off of someone willing though.

- Dominic

On Sep 23, 1:25*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Sep 23, 12:30*pm, TokyoB > wrote:
>
> > Imperial Tea Court just advertised this Wuyi Shui Xian tea cake in
> > their Sept newsletter.
>
> >http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...ID=2&Product_I....
>
> > I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. *I've never had aged wuyi tea
> > from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
> > making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
> > thoughts on this cake or how to age it?
>
> I have to admit this is a new one to me. I am also severely tempted to
> buy one. I really enjoy the super-highly roasted Shi Xians (like bits
> of charcoal) and I would imagine this would be less charcoal-y and
> more flavorful.
>
> As for storing... My initial reaction from reading would be to
> continue the yearly slow/low refiring process but since that is ot of
> the question for most I would imagine that storing it like a Puerh but
> in a much drier environment or with dessicant.
>
> I wish there was a way to try a sample before dropping $120 though.
> I'd buy a 1/4 to a 1/2 off of someone willing though.
>
> - Dominic

Hmmm...I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to try a sample before
commiting to a whole cake. Usually I drink Da Hong Pao or Rou Gui but
am less familiar w/Wuyi Shui Xian (although have had Dan Cong Shui
Xian to make things more confusing). Do you think the Wuyi Shui Xian
is somewhat similar to the other 2 wuyi teas? Before doing anything I
think I'll inquire at ITC and see what they suggest for aging. Also
the folks at Seven Cups told me they just got in some Anxi and Wuyi
teas. I have to be careful - buying faster than I can drink it! (which
is ok since I like aged tea but space becoming an issue...)

I do have a small roaster like the one sold at HouDe which might be
useful in reroasting but wouldn't want to ruin it.

On Sep 23, 3:03*pm, TokyoB > wrote:
> On Sep 23, 1:25*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 12:30*pm, TokyoB > wrote:
>
> > > Imperial Tea Court just advertised this Wuyi Shui Xian tea cake in
> > > their Sept newsletter.
>
> > >http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...ID=2&Product_I...
>
> > > I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. *I've never had aged wuyi tea
> > > from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
> > > making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
> > > thoughts on this cake or how to age it?
>
> > I have to admit this is a new one to me. I am also severely tempted to
> > buy one. I really enjoy the super-highly roasted Shi Xians (like bits
> > of charcoal) and I would imagine this would be less charcoal-y and
> > more flavorful.
>
> > As for storing... My initial reaction from reading would be to
> > continue the yearly slow/low refiring process but since that is ot of
> > the question for most I would imagine that storing it like a Puerh but
> > in a much drier environment or with dessicant.
>
> > I wish there was a way to try a sample before dropping $120 though.
> > I'd buy a 1/4 to a 1/2 off of someone willing though.
>
> > - Dominic
>
> Hmmm...I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to try a sample before
> commiting to a whole cake. Usually I drink Da Hong Pao or Rou Gui but
> am less familiar w/Wuyi Shui Xian (although have had Dan Cong Shui
> Xian to make things more confusing). *Do you think the Wuyi Shui Xian
> is somewhat similar to the other 2 wuyi teas? Before doing anything I
> think I'll inquire at ITC and see what they suggest for aging. Also
> the folks at Seven Cups told me they just got in some Anxi and Wuyi
> teas. I have to be careful - buying faster than I can drink it! (which
> is ok since I like aged tea but space becoming an issue...)
>
> *I do have a small roaster like the one sold at HouDe which might be
> useful in reroasting but wouldn't want to ruin it.

Well, on group or off group if there is interest 3-4 (or more I guess)
could go in on one as a sampling of sorts. Or if you speak to ITC see
if they are amenable to offering a sample/quarter as there is interest
at least by you and me and possibly a lurker or two.

Fall/Winter is my time to go into some really nice heavily roasted
oolongs. I may just bite the bullet myself. I've been much more
careful and deliberate in my tea buying to minimize excess and
maximize the quality of the ones I do buy. I still play and try an
oddball here and there, just less so than I used to. I've been under
the weather too so it has been plain black tea with raw honey for the
past few days.

- Dominic

> I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. *I've never had aged wuyi tea
> from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
> making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
> thoughts on this cake or how to age it?

It's sort of the new thing to try aged teas of all kind. I had
someone tell me they enjoyed some excellent 5-year old Maojin to my
chagrin. I got a chance to look at it, and it just seemed adulterated
with oils and recooked. I've had some pretty excellent aged Da Hong
Pao...but there again, it was recooked several times which shouldn't
be too good for your health. I think it's a market strategy at this
point. Most "aged" teas other than pu'er are the leftovers that
couldn't be sold from seasons past.

On 2008-09-25, Mydnight > wrote:

>> I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. *I've never had aged wuyi
>> tea from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the
>> benefit of making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging?
>> Any other thoughts on this cake or how to age it?

> It's sort of the new thing to try aged teas of all kind.
[...]
> I've had some pretty excellent aged Da Hong Pao...but there again, it
> was recooked several times which shouldn't be too good for your
> health.

Why would that be bad for your health? Because of the charcoal? I don't
quite follow your logic here.

But anyway, I think typically, oolongs are roasted with either high or
low fire early on, and later roastings are usually (but not always)
light roastings to get the moisture out.

Depending on the climate and how well the tea is sealed, some aged
oolongs aren't re-roasted frequently (or at all); the danger is just
that they sour.

> I think it's a market strategy at this point. Most "aged" teas other
> than pu'er are the leftovers that couldn't be sold from seasons past.

(I assume you mean most teas other than pu'er AND other post-fermented
teas, like liu an and liu bao).

My understanding is that there's a long tradition of aging oolongs, at
least for medicinal purposes (I assume mainly as a laxative, and to aid
with digestion). In Wuyishan, they not only make the cakes like the ones
we're discussing here, but stuff pomelo with the tea and age it that
way. Granted, if you're aging it for medicinal purposes, it doesn't mean
that people are going to use the best quality teas for aging, but either
way, the taste is often still quite nice. Shops in Malaysia and Taiwan
sell tons of the stuff -- and I don't think the only buyers are gullible
white folks.

I've heard it said that there's "no intentionally aged oolongs", and
while there may be some truth to that in a lot of cases (certainly it's
generally to the benefit of producers to sell their highest grade teas
immediately when there's demand for them), I think that people have
probably always been intentionally aging them to at least some degree.
And teas that are baked under high charcoal fire tend to have an overly
charcoal flavor until they've mellowed out - often for 1-4 years. I
think most people would prefer a high-fire Da Hong Pao after 3 years
than 3 months after it was produced.

In any event, aged teas taste good to me, and also tend to be kinder to
my stomach than younger / greener teas. You get a nice sweetness, but
in a smoother way than with a tea that's been high-fired recently.

That's not to say that there's not some truth in what you say - I've
certainly had a lot of sales pitches (at tea shops / factories) that
culminate with the "17 year aged" tea or something. Often, what you're
given is something that's not aged at all, or hasn't been aged for
anywhere near as long as you're told -- just some crappy stale tea
that's been heavily roasted.

One of the best ways to make sure you end up with well aged tea is to
start with good quality tea, and then store (and re-roast, if necessary)
the tea yourself.

One last comment... I think the *overall* trend in tea (at least Chinese
/ Taiwanese tea, and with the higher-end Darjeelings as well) is towards
greener / less roasted teas. This is what seems to be most popular with
consumers, and of course it has a lot to do with the fact that it's much
easier to transport teas quickly, and to keep them refrigerated / sealed
than it used to be. So many oolong teas now are made in a way that
doesn't allow them to keep as well as traditional medium or high fire
oolongs.

w

On 2008-09-23, TokyoB > wrote:

> I do enjoy aged wuyi and other oolongs. I've never had aged wuyi tea
> from a cake before. Has anyone else? What do you think the benefit of
> making the tea into a cake is in terms of impact on aging? Any other
> thoughts on this cake or how to age it?

Historically, I think tea was compressed mostly for easier transport
(smaller in size, and if the tea fell out of the boxes it was
transported in, it was a lot easier to deal with).

There are some possible benefits in terms of aging; one would be that
there is less / slower exposure to air, so the tea should age a little
faster. People say that pu'er mao cha ages faster than compressed tea,
and loosely compressed tea ages faster than tightly compressed tea. On
the other hand, loose oolong is usually aged in fairly well sealed
containers, whereas cakes usually aren't.

I haven't actually tried yan cha in this form before, but I did see them
when I was there. I'm not sure to what extent they're sold mostly as a
curiosity and to what extent people actually use them. As mentioned in
my other reply, I did see the ones that are pomelos stuffed with tea,
which, at least according to the folks at the small factory I was at,
are used for medicinal purposes.

I think there was another thread about this on rfdt 6 months or so back,
so you might want to check the archives.

w

Reroasting and refrying who ever heard of such a thing to spruce up
tea taste. If you can play marbles with your tea it aint aged. The
easiest way to tell a chronological +10 year aged oolong the leaf
becomes fragile starting at the edges or tips not hard. You should be
able to use a needle and flick away a piece of the edge. Put some in
your hand and press with a finger from the other. It should
'shatter'. A dry leaf from repeated roastings will 'break'. If its
been sitting there should be a residue at the bottom of the
container. The spent leaf should look 'geriatric'. A bite of the
spent leaf should be bitter or harsh. Every one of my father time
teas have some of these symtoms. I cant say the taste was worth
waiting for except the old stuff can hold its own.

Jim

Will Yardley wrote:
....a couple of great dot the eyes and cross the teas posts...
> One of the best ways to make sure you end up with well aged tea is to
> start with good quality tea, and then store (and re-roast, if necessary)
> the tea yourself.

> Why would that be bad for your health? Because of the charcoal? I don't
> quite follow your logic here.

You basically answered your own question.

> But anyway, I think typically, oolongs are roasted with either high or
> low fire early on, and later roastings are usually (but not always)
> light roastings to get the moisture out.
>
> Depending on the climate and how well the tea is sealed, some aged
> oolongs aren't re-roasted frequently (or at all); the danger is just
> that they sour.

My business contact has some 20+ year old wulong that she has to re-
roast every year. There wasn't much "sealing" involved. They just
sort of put it in a container and revisited it each year.

> > I think it's a market strategy at this point. *Most "aged" teas other
> > than pu'er are the leftovers that couldn't be sold from seasons past.
>
> (I assume you mean most teas other than pu'er AND other post-fermented
> teas, like liu an and liu bao).

As I said before, I heard someone marketing old green tea that had
been re-fried each year (I think).

> My understanding is that there's a long tradition of aging oolongs, at
> least for medicinal purposes (I assume mainly as a laxative, and to aid
> with digestion). In Wuyishan, they not only make the cakes like the ones
> we're discussing here, but stuff pomelo with the tea and age it that
> way. Granted, if you're aging it for medicinal purposes, it doesn't mean
> that people are going to use the best quality teas for aging, but either
> way, the taste is often still quite nice. Shops in Malaysia and Taiwan
> sell tons of the stuff -- and I don't think the only buyers are gullible
> white folks.

It may be a tradition of aging wulongs but there isn't much of a
market for it.

> I've heard it said that there's "no intentionally aged oolongs"

It's becoming more common but it's pretty easy to find fake.

> That's not to say that there's not some truth in what you say - I've
> certainly had a lot of sales pitches (at tea shops / factories) that
> culminate with the "17 year aged" tea or something. Often, what you're
> given is something that's not aged at all, or hasn't been aged for
> anywhere near as long as you're told -- just some crappy stale tea
> that's been heavily roasted.

That's all you will get unless you have someone in the business that
can get the good stuff for you.

> One last comment... I think the *overall* trend in tea (at least Chinese
> / Taiwanese tea, and with the higher-end Darjeelings as well) is towards
> greener / less roasted teas. This is what seems to be most popular with
> consumers, and of course it has a lot to do with the fact that it's much
> easier to transport teas quickly, and to keep them refrigerated / sealed
> than it used to be. So many oolong teas now are made in a way that
> doesn't allow them to keep as well as traditional medium or high fire
> oolongs.

This is indeed the market trend. It doesn't have much to do with
transportation as much as the taste of the people drinking tea. The
traditional way was to cook until full roasted or medium because of
the lack of refrigeration and that was the style. I think the less
roasted wulongs are much easier to appreciate than the more fuller
roasted style. It's kind of like new world vs. old world wines; you
have fruity/sweet vs. earthy/dirty. I prefer old world but have a
hard time finding decent stuff.

Wuyi Shuixian tea cake... wait a minute. Shuixian tea cakes are made
in Zhangping, far away from what we think of as Wuyi in the
traditional sense. Although they are prepared in the fashion of Wuyi-
style teas. In fact, Zhangping is closer to Longyan (in southwestern
Fujian or Min Xi) than it is to Wuyi city (which is northern Fujian or
Min Bei). And they even speak Longyan dialect there. (Which I can
understand to some degree, because, umm.. I lived there for 2 years.
However, if you think of Wuyi as a mountain range, it extends for
some distance from northern Fujian to the south. And Zhangping would
be at the southern end of that range, in the foothills, so to speak.