MarshalN,

Remember the [supposedly 7-yr old raw] brick that I sent you a while
ago. That might have been wet storage. You noticed tiny little white
dots, which I didn't until you mentioned it. That brick was from
Guangzhou. I still have one brick left and I keep it separate from my
other pu'er stash.

Phyll

MarshalN wrote:
> Michael Plant wrote:
> > >> BTW, while wet storage puerh is fairly popular in Hong Kong, most other
> > >> puerh aficionados shun it though. It has an overwhelming note of mold
> > >> or mildew to it that most find undesirable. Think sour wet laundry and
> > >> you get the idea!
> > >
> > > That's actually an unfair characterization of wet storage puerh.
> > > Properly done wet storage, if nothing else, tastes better than cooked
> > > puerh, and there are PLENTY of people who like cooked puerh. I've had
> > > wet storage that, while not as impressive as nicely done, dry stroage
> > > puerh of good raw materials, are nothing to scoff at.
> > >
> > > The poorly done or mismanged wet storage are the ones that turn out
> > > nasty. The good ones you don't even know you're drinking wet storage
> > > unless you know exactly what to look for. Chances are you'll just
> > > think something is well aged. A multitude of cakes that were made
> > > prior to the late 80s have probably been through wet storage at some
> > > point in Hong Kong, and if you've, say, bought a sample of a cake from
> > > the 70s, you're probably drinking some wet storage pu.
> >
> > "Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the
> > get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the
> > other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in
> > some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company,
> > advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to
> > greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are
> > among the best I've tasted. They are not free.
> >
> > BTW MarshalN, please don't forget to cite your quotes. I don't know who the
> > OP above is.
> >
> > Michael
>
> Since the quoted text appeared right above my post (in Mike Petro's
> reply to Phyll) I thought it was obvious enough...
>
> Most wet storage just invovles sticking the tea in storage that is high
> in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water.
> In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most
> people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong
> storage" taste.

On 13 Oct 2006 07:49:08 -0700, "MarshalN" > wrote:

>Most wet storage just invovles sticking the tea in storage that is high
>in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water.
>In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most
>people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong
>storage" taste.

This is a good topic. At above what % humidity level do you consider a
puerh to be in "wet storage"?

Certain regions are naturally more humid than others. For example, if
all other variables were identical, and you stored tea "without" any
sort of climate control equipment in Kunming the result would be far
different than if the same tea were stored in Guangzhou, with the more
humid Guangzhou storage probably yielding a better end product.

In the above example would you call the Guangzhou storage "wet
storage", or is "wet storage" more aptly where the humidity is
maintained at artificially high levels through various manipulations
of the climatic environment?

It is my understanding that changes in climate, much like the changes
of the seasons, are very beneficial for the ultimate quality of a
puerh. Alternating between humid and dry, etc. While I am certain that
this could easily be simulated through mechanization, I deal with this
type of equipment at work, to accurately control the environment (ie
square footage) of a warehouse would be very costly. I am aware of
special "climate control" chambers (much smaller than a warehouse)
that are used to precisely control heat and humidity in order to
"speed-age" green puerhs. Unfortunately I suspect these are most often
used with intent to defraud.

Depending on your definition of "wet-storage" you may indeed be right
that I have tasted it and not realized it. However, I have tasted many
where I could tell that the tea had been stored in high humidity at
some point. Whether or not it rose to level of being considered
"wet-storage" is debatable.

You mentioned " Properly done wet storage" earlier, what exactly do
you mean by that? What is the "Hong Kong" definition of "wet-storage"?


--
Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

Just a suggestion. Could this topic be moved to a thread of its own?
I am enjoying the recent conversation regarding 'wet storage", but I do
not want to give the original topic more time.
-David Lesseps
re humidity and storage: I recently recieved my sample of traditionally
HK-stored 2001 MengKu Mengsa beeng to compare with the dry stored
version. I look forward to the test.


Mike Petro wrote:
> On 13 Oct 2006 07:49:08 -0700, "MarshalN" > wrote:
>
> >Most wet storage just invovles sticking the tea in storage that is high
> >in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water.
> >In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most
> >people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong
> >storage" taste.
>
> This is a good topic. At above what % humidity level do you consider a
> puerh to be in "wet storage"?
>
> Certain regions are naturally more humid than others. For example, if
> all other variables were identical, and you stored tea "without" any
> sort of climate control equipment in Kunming the result would be far
> different than if the same tea were stored in Guangzhou, with the more
> humid Guangzhou storage probably yielding a better end product.
>
> In the above example would you call the Guangzhou storage "wet
> storage", or is "wet storage" more aptly where the humidity is
> maintained at artificially high levels through various manipulations
> of the climatic environment?
>
> It is my understanding that changes in climate, much like the changes
> of the seasons, are very beneficial for the ultimate quality of a
> puerh. Alternating between humid and dry, etc. While I am certain that
> this could easily be simulated through mechanization, I deal with this
> type of equipment at work, to accurately control the environment (ie
> square footage) of a warehouse would be very costly. I am aware of
> special "climate control" chambers (much smaller than a warehouse)
> that are used to precisely control heat and humidity in order to
> "speed-age" green puerhs. Unfortunately I suspect these are most often
> used with intent to defraud.
>
> Depending on your definition of "wet-storage" you may indeed be right
> that I have tasted it and not realized it. However, I have tasted many
> where I could tell that the tea had been stored in high humidity at
> some point. Whether or not it rose to level of being considered
> "wet-storage" is debatable.
>
> You mentioned " Properly done wet storage" earlier, what exactly do
> you mean by that? What is the "Hong Kong" definition of "wet-storage"?
>
>
> --
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net

> "Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the
> get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the
> other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in
> some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company,
> advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to
> greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are
> among the best I've tasted. They are not free.

Wet store is not the sole problem, most people do wet store and it's
difficult to get dry store pu these days unless you age it yourself.
The problem is the people that do the wet store process with the intent
to trick the consumer, which is what you usually meet. I'm not talking
about putting the tea in place with high humidity (storage chamber, the
like), I'm talking about people spraying the tea down with water and
letting it dry in the sun...then doing it over and over again until you
basically have nice tasting mud for upwards of 4 or 5 brewings.

Wet store 5 year and dry store 5 year have completely different tastes
and the dry store won't make your throat so uncomfortable when you
drink it.

Mike 10/14/06


> On 13 Oct 2006 07:49:08 -0700, "MarshalN" > wrote:
>
>> Most wet storage just involves sticking the tea in storage that is high
>> in humidity. It does not mean sprikling the tea liberally with water.
>> In fact, that will almost guarantee mould, and that's bad because most
>> people don't like mouldy taste, even the ones who prefer the "Hong Kong
>> storage" taste.
>
> This is a good topic. At above what % humidity level do you consider a
> puerh to be in "wet storage"?

snip snip and snip again

Yes, good. I have in my possession two 1988 Meng Hai cakes, one that had
been stored in New York City and one that had been stored in Hong Kong.
there is a difference in the taste, as you'd expect. The tea is excellent
from both. I'm going to do another side-by-side before commenting further,
since which one I prefer seems to correlate more with my mood of the moment
than with anything objective. But, that's me. Later.

Here's a communications test. It is only a test. If it holds no meaning for
you, please igno How about Tuesday; that is, tomorrow?

I'm drinking Shui Xian this morning. It's wonderful. After 62 years of trial
and error, I've uncovered the simple secret to SX success.

Michael

> Wet store 5 year and dry store 5 year have completely different tastes
> and the dry store won't make your throat so uncomfortable when you
> drink it.

I suspect somebody asked this Mydnight,
but would you kindly define the relative
humidity and temperature of the storage
conditions for both.
Thanks.
Michael

Everything that is old is new. It's the only model by definition that
can supply any remaining quantities of 30+ chen puer to meet the
current demand. There are no guarantees of any chronological age. The
confidence game is the oldest one in the books. My only suggestion buy
recent crops now and enjoy in the years to come which is the promise of
puer supposedly.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
> > "Wet Storage" is a funny phrase. On the one hand we have the
> > get-it-going-fast wet blanket treatment of the pre-cake leaf, and on the
> > other we have storage environments that alternate more and less humidity in
> > some configuration or other. Sun Sing, a reputable Hong Kong tea company,
> > advocates at least some high humidity storage along the cake's path to
> > greatness. They have been almost apologetic about this, but their teas are
> > among the best I've tasted. They are not free.
>
> Wet store is not the sole problem, most people do wet store and it's
> difficult to get dry store pu these days unless you age it yourself.
> The problem is the people that do the wet store process with the intent
> to trick the consumer, which is what you usually meet. I'm not talking
> about putting the tea in place with high humidity (storage chamber, the
> like), I'm talking about people spraying the tea down with water and
> letting it dry in the sun...then doing it over and over again until you
> basically have nice tasting mud for upwards of 4 or 5 brewings.
>
> Wet store 5 year and dry store 5 year have completely different tastes
> and the dry store won't make your throat so uncomfortable when you
> drink it.

Michael Plant wrote:
> > Wet store 5 year and dry store 5 year have completely different tastes
> > and the dry store won't make your throat so uncomfortable when you
> > drink it.
>
> I suspect somebody asked this Mydnight,
> but would you kindly define the relative
> humidity and temperature of the storage
> conditions for both.
> Thanks.
> Michael

Sorry, most people that carry out these procedures are hardly
standardized using any kind of specific measurement for time or
humidity. There is a city in Guangdong called Zhaoqing that is
supposedly to be a famous place for pu'er storage because of it's fresh
and humid air, though. Dunno what else to say about it.

10/20/06


>
> Michael Plant wrote:
>>> Wet store 5 year and dry store 5 year have completely different tastes
>>> and the dry store won't make your throat so uncomfortable when you
>>> drink it.
>>
>> I suspect somebody asked this Mydnight,
>> but would you kindly define the relative
>> humidity and temperature of the storage
>> conditions for both.
>> Thanks.
>> Michael
>
> Sorry, most people that carry out these procedures are hardly
> standardized using any kind of specific measurement for time or
> humidity. There is a city in Guangdong called Zhaoqing that is
> supposedly to be a famous place for pu'er storage because of it's fresh
> and humid air, though. Dunno what else to say about it.


That's helpful. Thanks.
It's the art behind the science.
My faith is restored.
Michael