Every now and again, maybe five times a year, I get this great honey
odor and flavor in my 100% whole wheat loaf. It tastes and smells just
like
honey is in it, yet not an oz of sugar has been added. It's really
nice, but I can't figure out why this happens. The bread's always
delicious but
the honey accept is really distinct.

I made the loaf with approximately my usual proportions but did cut
down the size a bit.
I used 1/2c whole wheat starter (20% of loaf by volume), 2c whole wheat
bread flour,
almost 1c water, two 8 hours builds of the starter. Kneaded in bread
machine 20m,
4 hours for the ferment at about 77F (stretched and folded once half
way through)
and a full 90 minute proof at around 80F. Maybe the only difference
with usual was that I ran
out of whole wheat flour so used a tiny bit of white all-purpose, maybe

2-3T. Could that have produced predominant honey odor and flavor? Any
other
theories?

Maybe it's your affectionate kitchen faeries buzzing around and
dropping honey into your bread machine. Maybe drops from
fruit-eating birds? Maybe dirty bread machine after somebody's
bread-machine fruit cake?

Can't you keep your newsreader from breaking your lines
every whichaway?


"Jonathan Kandell" > wrote in message ups.com...

Every now and again, maybe five times a year, I get this great honey
odor and flavor in my 100% whole wheat loaf. It tastes and smells just
like
honey is in it, yet not an oz of sugar has been added. It's really
nice, but I can't figure out why this happens. The bread's always
delicious but
the honey accept is really distinct.

I made the loaf with approximately my usual proportions but did cut
down the size a bit.
I used 1/2c whole wheat starter (20% of loaf by volume), 2c whole wheat
bread flour,
almost 1c water, two 8 hours builds of the starter. Kneaded in bread
machine 20m,
4 hours for the ferment at about 77F (stretched and folded once half
way through)
and a full 90 minute proof at around 80F. Maybe the only difference
with usual was that I ran
out of whole wheat flour so used a tiny bit of white all-purpose, maybe

2-3T. Could that have produced predominant honey odor and flavor? Any
other
theories?

Jonathan Kandell wrote:
> Every now and again, maybe five times a year, I get this great honey
> odor and flavor ..
> out of whole wheat flour so used a tiny bit of white all-purpose, maybe
>
> 2-3T. Could that have produced predominant honey odor and flavor? Any
> other
> theories?

Don't take any notice of Mr. Adams, he's quite used to mythical
creatures. Who cares if your lines end in odd places. Most of us come
with eagle eyes. : -)

Anyway. About the honey thing. I get it with all my starters in one
form or another it ranges from honey to balsam. I first notice it just
after activation and then whenever they've been given a good feed. I
must admit I haven't noticed it in the dough. But I last had it when I
took a starter out of the fridge that hadn't been used in a week so
it's not just about peaking or activation. Dicky scares most people
into silence or not talking about things he disapproves of, he doesn't
like people talking about the smell of their starter, calls them
starter sniffers lol. Funny old bugger but hopefully there'll be
someone with an enquiring mind who isn't scared of the old guy and
knows exactly what's going on if only in the name of more knowledge.

TG

"TG" > wrote in message ps.com...

> Dicky scares most people into silence or not talking about
> things he disapproves of, he doesn't like people talking about
> the smell of their starter, calls them starter sniffers lol.

Poppycock!

Up yers, "TG" ...

You nameless nOOby startermucker!

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
> "TG" > wrote in message ps.com...
>
> > Dicky scares most people into silence or not talking about
> > things he disapproves of, he doesn't like people talking about
> > the smell of their starter, calls them starter sniffers lol.
>
> Poppycock!
>
> Up yers, "TG" ...
>
> You nameless nOOby startermucker!
>
> --
> Dicky

Dicky if you stuck to what you do best and that is talking about bread
and leave out the nasty jibes and name calling NO one would even think
about taking the ****. If you can't take it Dicky, don't deal it. If
searching for knowledge is being a startermucker. Thanks for the
compliment. Cheers.

As for nameless. lol. For those like yourself that have retired. It
doesn't matter if someone 'Googles' you and makes a rash decision. But
for those of us still in work. I don't want to be judged on what I say
in a group thanks very much. It's my business if I choose to use
initials or whatever. If you want to write to me off list I'll be happy
to use my full name. But why should anyone care?

Stick to bread Dick, leave the name calling for the children.

All the best.

TG

Jonathan Kandell wrote:
> Every now and again, maybe five times a year, I get this great honey
> odor and flavor

I don't think it comes from the sourdough. I had that happen to me once
or twice when making bread with a high percentage of WW flour. The
first time it was when I was baking the yeasted WW loaf from the book
"Baking With Julia" and trying a new WW flour. I thought that I had
struck the mother lode, but it was a one time thing and I can't
duplicate it at will. It is even more elusive than the strong "wheaty"
taste that sometimes strikes in white bread.

I am betting that the Bread Faerie Theory is correct. However, longer
cool fermentation can help with the white bread.

Regards,

Charles

"TG" > wrote in message oups.com...
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
> > "TG" > wrote in message ps.com...
> >
> > > Dicky scares most people into silence or not talking about
> > > things he disapproves of, he doesn't like people talking about
> > > the smell of their starter, calls them starter sniffers lol.
> >
> > Poppycock!
> >
> > Up yers, "TG" ...
> >
> > You nameless nOOby startermucker!

> ... Dicky if you stuck to what you do best and that is talking about bread
> and leave out the nasty jibes and name calling NO one would even think
> about taking the ****. If you can't take it Dicky, don't deal it.

My point would be that *starter sniffer* is not an insult. Starter sniffing
is good. Charles Perry, who is known to be a good person, is an inveterate
starter sniffer. Starter sniffing can bring life to a dead starter. On the other
hand, startermuckers are the scourge of this newsgroup. Startermuckers and
startermuckpancakemakers. Anonymous/acronymic nascent startermuckers
are extremely low on the scale, particularly when they attempt to designate
fine old posters like me as ogres.

> Stick to bread Dick, leave the name calling for the children. ...

Children frequently do not understand my insults, and simply go on with
their brainless merrymakings, as I expect you will.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
> "TG" > wrote in message oups.com...
>
>>Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>>>"TG" > wrote in message ps.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dicky scares most people into silence or not talking about
>>>>things he disapproves of, he doesn't like people talking about
>>>>the smell of their starter, calls them starter sniffers lol.
>>>
>>>Poppycock!
>>>
>>>Up yers, "TG" ...
>>>
>>>You nameless nOOby startermucker!
>
>
>>... Dicky if you stuck to what you do best and that is talking about bread
>>and leave out the nasty jibes and name calling NO one would even think
>>about taking the ****. If you can't take it Dicky, don't deal it.
>
>
> My point would be that *starter sniffer* is not an insult. Starter sniffing
> is good. Charles Perry, who is known to be a good person, is an inveterate
> starter sniffer. Starter sniffing can bring life to a dead starter. On the other
> hand, startermuckers are the scourge of this newsgroup. Startermuckers and
> startermuckpancakemakers. Anonymous/acronymic nascent startermuckers
> are extremely low on the scale, particularly when they attempt to designate
> fine old posters like me as ogres.
>
>
>>Stick to bread Dick, leave the name calling for the children. ...
>
>
> Children frequently do not understand my insults, and simply go on with
> their brainless merrymakings, as I expect you will.
>
> --
> Dicky
I do so enjoy the image I get of Dicky chuckling, or rather *cackling*,
to himself after one of these exchanges! Read what you want of them,
enjoy the Don Rickles act, and carry on...

Dave

> >>Stick to bread Dick, leave the name calling for the children. ...
> >
> >
> > Children frequently do not understand my insults, and simply go on with
> > their brainless merrymakings, as I expect you will.
> >
> > --
> > Dicky
> I do so enjoy the image I get of Dicky chuckling, or rather *cackling*,
> to himself after one of these exchanges! Read what you want of them,
> enjoy the Don Rickles act, and carry on...
>
> Dave

No, I have to admit, he got me there. lol.

I usually expect people to reason in some way. lol

TG