On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:25:24 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote >
>> By most commonly used standards of protein level, KA-AP
>> flour IS "bread flour."
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
> Sorry, I am only used to what KA sells, and thet have a different def of
>bread flour I guess, as they sell something else:
>
>http://www.bakingcircle.com/msgboard/index.jsp?pv=111
>

Howdy,

Was that the link you intended?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

http://www.bakingcircle.com/msgboard/index.jsp?pv=111

that isnt working?

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:25:24 -0500, "hutchndi"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Kenneth" > wrote >
> >> By most commonly used standards of protein level, KA-AP
> >> flour IS "bread flour."
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> --
> >> Kenneth
> > Sorry, I am only used to what KA sells, and thet have a different def
of
> >bread flour I guess, as they sell something else:
> >
> >http://www.bakingcircle.com/msgboard/index.jsp?pv=111
> >
>
> Howdy,
>
> Was that the link you intended?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

----- Original Message -----
From: "hutchndi" >
To: "hutchndi" >
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Bakers Chef
sorry, replied to you personally


> That is odd, it doesn't go back to the same page. Maybe because I surfed
> there from the members baking circle page? But anyway, they have a home
> bakers flour page and it lists all purpose and then bread flour, so it is
> two different things. I guess your saying that their AP is what most
> consider bread flour?
>

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:24:19 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hutchndi" >
>To: "hutchndi" >
>Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:21 PM
>Subject: Bakers Chef
>sorry, replied to you personally
>
>
>> That is odd, it doesn't go back to the same page. Maybe because I surfed
>> there from the members baking circle page? But anyway, they have a home
>> bakers flour page and it lists all purpose and then bread flour, so it is
>> two different things. I guess your saying that their AP is what most
>> consider bread flour?
>>
>

Hi again,

Assuming for the moment that you are responding to me (I'd
have to be a bit of a detective to sort this out <g>) I
would not call it "two different things."

I would say that KA understands that by labeling their
products in that way, they are likely to sell more of 'em.

As I tried to explain at the outset. The protein level of
KA-AP flour is well above the level at which most would
characterize wheat flour as "bread flour."

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:24:19 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "hutchndi" >
>To: "hutchndi" >
>Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:21 PM
>Subject: Bakers Chef
>sorry, replied to you personally

Howdy,

Again, on the chance that you are attempting to communicate
with me, I've received no email from you.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:17:51 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:25:24 -0500, "hutchndi"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Kenneth" > wrote >
>> >> By most commonly used standards of protein level, KA-AP
>> >> flour IS "bread flour."
>> >>
>> >> All the best,
>> >> --
>> >> Kenneth
>> > Sorry, I am only used to what KA sells, and thet have a different def
>of
>> >bread flour I guess, as they sell something else:
>> >
>> >http://www.bakingcircle.com/msgboard/index.jsp?pv=111
>> >
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Was that the link you intended?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>

>http://www.bakingcircle.com/msgboard/index.jsp?pv=111
>
>that isnt working?

Hi again,

It takes me to the login page for the "Baking Circle."

What does that have to do with KA-AP being what most would
call "bread flour?"

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth, first my apologies about the link, had something to do with my
navigation to the intended page I guess. After revisiting it, I pulled
this url:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/flour/home.php if this link works, it should
show a difference of opinion between what defines bread flour, and hence my
confusion.

Also, I am presently reading Daniel Wing, and his definition of bread flour
is two fold, one for French and another for American flours French being
about 11.5 and American being nearly 14 (% protein).

King Arthur (which I would imagine to be American) AP is 11.5%, and their
bread flour is at 12.7%, so this makes no sense whatsoever. This does
however put King Arthur AP in the catagory of French bread flour (by this
books definition). Anyways, (this book) goes on to suggest the high protein
of American flours (meaning that 14%?) make for less satisfactory
"European"style breads, less open crumb with poor crust, but it is prized
for making sandwich breads with the tiny little holes that turn to paste in
your mouth.

Bakers Chef "bread" flour at about 10% (sourdoughhome comparison) is even
less likely for anyone to call bread flour by this definition, I dont even
know what their AP protein percentage is. So many people here have recipes
stressing the use of bread flour to help make their sourdough experience a
success, isnt this a bad idea considering that flour producers only seem to
follow their own definition of what that is? If there is American "bread
flour" out there at 14% and it is really better suited for making Wonder
Bread, wouldnt it be better to suggest to new bakers (assuming they are
attempting to make something better than Wonder Bread), to avoid the front
label completely and go directly to the nutritional sidebar and look for
something close to11.5% protein?

hutchndi

On 2006-01-22, hutchndi > wrote:
> Kenneth, first my apologies about the link, had something to do with my
> navigation to the intended page I guess. After revisiting it, I pulled
> this url:
> http://www.kingarthurflour.com/flour/home.php if this link works, it should
> show a difference of opinion between what defines bread flour, and hence my
> confusion.
>
> Also, I am presently reading Daniel Wing, and his definition of bread flour
> is two fold, one for French and another for American flours French being
> about 11.5 and American being nearly 14 (% protein).
[...]

I think he must be talking about the protein content of the whole
wheat berry (or whole wheat flour)? I don't think white flour
generally gets close to 14%, unless it's been fortified with extra
gluten. (I think commercial bakers can get "high gluten" flour which
might be close to 14%, but I've never seen such a thing on grocery
store shelves.) Whole hard American red wheat can be 14-15% protein
total, though a lot of this protein is not gluten-forming. This is
why whole wheat flour usually has higher protein content, but does not
have stronger gluten.

It is true in my experience that KA AP flour is quite high in protein,
and makes good bread all on its own. I don't particularly like it for
cakes and such.

--
Randall

Howdy,

Please see my comments inline below...

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 08:19:00 -0500, "hutchndi"

> wrote:


>>SNIP<<
>
>Anyways, (this book) goes on to suggest the high protein
>of American flours (meaning that 14%?) make for less satisfactory
>"European"style breads, less open crumb with poor crust, but it is prized
>for making sandwich breads with the tiny little holes that turn to paste in
>your mouth.
>

You might want to learn to bake Pain de Mie. That is the
French style of "sandwich" bread. Very fine, uniform crumb,
and delicious.

I have a version I am very happy with if you would want
it...

>wouldnt it be better to suggest to new bakers (assuming they are
>attempting to make something better than Wonder Bread), to avoid the front
>label completely and go directly to the nutritional sidebar and look for
>something close to11.5% protein?

Yes...


All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth, thanks for the offer of the recipe, but I am not presently
attempting to make sandwich bread, though I may at a future time and I will
have to try it then. I am mostly trying to make hearth type breads im my
electric oven now, and letting my sandwiches be made with whatever my breads
come out like. For now.

hutchndi

On 1/22/06, hutchndi > wrote:
>
> Bakers Chef "bread" flour at about 10% (sourdoughhome comparison) is even
> less likely for anyone to call bread flour by this definition, I dont even
> know what their AP protein percentage is.


The reason it works is because of the ascorbic acid and other stuff they
have added to the flour to make it handle better than a 10% protein flour
otherwise would.

I can't recommend their flour.... bread made from it is very deficient in
taste, which disappointed me because I'd been happy with it until I tried
side by side tests with other flours.

Mike

"Mike Avery" > wrote

"The reason it works is because of the ascorbic acid and other stuff they have added to the flour to make it handle better than a 10% protein flour otherwise would."

Thanks Mike. By the way, do you realise you have your messages posted in html, which always gives me an warning before replying that newsreaders wont display it properly? Just thought I would mention it, I noticed a problem with it earlier.

hutchndi