On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:

> Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
>while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
>I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
>bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
>seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
>the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
>experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
>go for, so cant help with that....

Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.

The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.

Thanks.

Don R.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Don R. wrote:

> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.

Yes - your pans have quite a bit more volume than called for.

When you wait until the dough rises to the top of the pans, it's gone past
the optimum point, and is ready to collapse.

Try smaller pans, and bake as soon as it rises to the top. You seem to
have plenty of rising power, so watch that it doesn't spring and overflow
the pan, when it hits the hot oven!

Dave

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:36:38 -0800, Dave Bell
> wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Don R. wrote:
>
>> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>>
>> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
>> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
>> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
>> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
>> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
>> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
>> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
>> >go for, so cant help with that....
>>
>> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>>
>> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
>> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
>Yes - your pans have quite a bit more volume than called for.
>
>When you wait until the dough rises to the top of the pans, it's gone past
>the optimum point, and is ready to collapse.
>
>Try smaller pans, and bake as soon as it rises to the top. You seem to
>have plenty of rising power, so watch that it doesn't spring and overflow
>the pan, when it hits the hot oven!
>
>Dave

Since I first responded to "hutchndi" >, I got to
thinking about pan sizes . . . .

I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?

Thanks.

Don R.

Don R. wrote:

"I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?"

Actually I dint know you were using a "larger than specified" amount
of dough, I thought you may have been using the smaller recipe for a
bigger pan. If you did figure a larger dough weight for your pans, and
you are still having problems, you could still be overproofing in an
earlier stage and not compensating. Do you overproof your sponge stage
and then possibly not incorporate enough new food (flour) into the
final dough to keep the yeasties fed and all powered up, letting them
crash before they finish the job? Thats been one of my downfalls too. I
dont really use loafpans except for an occasional experimentation, not
the type of bread I am after, there are others with alot more
experience here.

hutchndi

On 8 Dec 2005 22:17:25 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:

>Don R. wrote:
>
>"I don't understand why the pan size should have much bearing on the
>loaf. If I use a larger than specified pan size and place a larger
>piece of dough in the pan, why wouldn't that work just as well as
>using a smaller pan and a smaller piece of dough?"
>
> Actually I dint know you were using a "larger than specified" amount
>of dough, I thought you may have been using the smaller recipe for a
>bigger pan.

Actually, I -was- using the smaller recipe in the larger pan. What I
was suggesting in my message was that I could use a larger portion of
dlough in the larger pan rather than buying a new supply of smaller
pans.

>If you did figure a larger dough weight for your pans, and
>you are still having problems, you could still be overproofing in an
>earlier stage and not compensating. Do you overproof your sponge stage
>and then possibly not incorporate enough new food (flour) into the
>final dough to keep the yeasties fed and all powered up, letting them
>crash before they finish the job? Thats been one of my downfalls too. I
>dont really use loafpans except for an occasional experimentation, not
>the type of bread I am after, there are others with alot more
>experience here.

I'm not, yet, familiar with the term "overproofing". Don't know the
difference bvetween "overproofing" and "underproofing", sorry to say.

Appreciate your input, Hutch!

Don R.

"Don R." > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm not, yet, familiar with the term "overproofing". Don't know the
> difference bvetween "overproofing" and "underproofing", sorry to say.

Well Don, I will try to remedy that, though I will probably get corrected.
Most of the places I read about this stuff say something like "OK now proof
your starter until its really active" or "proof for 8 hours at 75 degrees"
or "underproof the dough just a bit before baking" , like proofing is
something you have to know how to do. Proofing is basically just letting the
dough do what its going to do anyway. Actually, unless your dough is frozen
or all the yeasties are dead, proofing is going to happen whether you do
nothing at all or if you stress out about it, which I usually have done
anyways. From the minute you let your stuff get to work, feeding it and
giving it a little warmth, proofing begins, and it doesnt end until the high
temps in your oven finally kill off all the organisms you have working for
you in the dough. Eating, multiplying, making flavor and gas, thats what
those little buggers do, and thats what they will continue to do all by
themselves. Unless of course something happens to stop the process, like
running out of food. When the food supply gets used up, we call the dough
overproofed, spent, the yeast cant create more gas to raise your bread. If
you use up all your available food in an earlier stage (sponge) and dont add
enough later(dough), the dough will over proof (run out of food) and stop
rising when you need it most. The trick is to learn to bake your bread at a
point when the most flavor has developed, but you still have enough food
(usable flour) in the dough to keep your yeasties working. Underproofing,
thats just the opposite. If you use your starter before it is fully active,
it would still work, but it would just take longer. If you bake it while it
still has allot of proofing to do, like it hasnt risen nearly enough, then
its going to grow like crazy and split at the seams.

Probably not really the best way to explain it, but I am just getting over
newbiness myself. Good luck...

hutchndi

Don R. wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don R.
>

Don R. wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2005 10:40:44 -0800, "hutchndi" > wrote:
>
> > Just a shot in the dark, but I had a real problem with loaf pans a
> >while back, and after I got all stressed out about it, I found out that
> >I was using quick bread pans for trying to bake recipes measured for
> >bread. Quick bread pans (the ones most used for banana bread and such)
> >seem just a bit bigger but make alot of difference. The bread rises to
> >the top, you bake it, and it falls or gets a hollow crust. That was my
> >experience anyways. I like my crust pretty um, crusty, so thats what I
> >go for, so cant help with that....
>
> Bingo!! Well, that seems address some of my problem.
>
> The recipe does call for 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 x 2 1/2 pans. I'm using
> 9 1/2 x 5 1/2 x 3 pans.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don R.
>

Using those dimensions, that is 64% more pan volume than what was
called for. Hard to believe that would produce so much more volume.