*sigh* Of all the things I can't eat right now I miss bread the most
- specifically I miss *my* bread. I've been an intuitive baker for
years and haven't done the extensive research some of y'all have WRT
the chemistry of sourdough. What I'm wondering at this point is, does
the fermentation process reduce the amount of carboyhdrate (starch) in
the bread substantially, or merely convert it to other, equally "bad"
things such as recognizable sugars and such? I'll go forth and read if
somebody can point me at a pertinent source.

Thanks!

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.
Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:06:09 GMT, "L, not -L" > spewed
forth :

>I make the sourdough semolina bread by using half bread flour and half
>semolina flour. Semolina is a very hard wheat so doesn't breakdown to sugar
>as fast as softer wheat flour. My assumption has been that the easily
>broken down starch is process by the sourdough to feed on, leaving the
>slower to breakdown starch for me.

What sort of fermentation times do you use? I typically set a 12-hour
sponge, have a 2-3 hour rise for the finished dough followed by a
60-90 minute proof prior to baking. I'm wondering how longer and
shorter ferment times might affect the "bottom line".

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.
Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

"L, not -L" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ]

> I like more sour in my sourdough; if I wanted less, I'd=20
> probably skip the overnight in fridge and do a shorter=20
> proof ...

Oh, I see -- if you want your sourdough bread to be sour,
you put the dough in the fridge overnight!??

Who told you that?

Some people are making their bread sour by putting their
dough in the fridge. So they think, anyway.

Who is right? What is the truth?

What is "L, not -L" supposed to conjure up? =20

--
Dicky

"Wooly" > wrote in message
...
> *sigh* Of all the things I can't eat right now I miss bread the most
> - specifically I miss *my* bread. I've been an intuitive baker for
> years and haven't done the extensive research some of y'all have WRT
> the chemistry of sourdough. What I'm wondering at this point is, does
> the fermentation process reduce the amount of carboyhdrate (starch) in
> the bread substantially, or merely convert it to other, equally "bad"
> things such as recognizable sugars and such? I'll go forth and read if
> somebody can point me at a pertinent source.
Quite a few years ago I was on the same quest that you are. I'd read that
the carb content of SD bread was significantly lower than "regular" bread.
I thought I'd bookmarked that, but can't seem to locate it at the moment.

If I find it, I'll be dropping it here for you...

<big sigh!>
Dusty


>
> Thanks!
>
> +++++++++++++
>
> Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
> This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.
> Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

"L, not -L" > wrote in message =
...

> Well, Dick, the process is called retarding. You can look it up at
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/food/sourdo...ection-37.html, which =
purports
> to be the FAQs for this newsgroup; but, that is only one of many =
sources.
> To quote from that FAQ - "Retarding simply means putting your loaves =
into
> cold storage, the refrigerator, for awhile. This allows you to bake at =
a
> later date, early in the morning if you wish, ...

Right, I knew that.

> and it affords the microorganisms in your dough a long, slow time to =
work,=20
> developing a tastier and more sour bread."

Well, I don't exactly know that, and, although it is not altogether =
contrary to
my experience, it is not confirmed by it either. Listen, when they are =
working
longer because of being cold, they are working slower, too.

The presumtion is the various aspects of the fermentation process are =
variously
affected by temperature.

There is very little harm in putting dough in the fridge, and lots of =
people do
it because they think it is the right thing to do. Well, it takes much =
longer
and the gas has a chance to diffuse away before it blows the loaf up.

> I have been doing this for a while and am quite satisfied with the =
result=20
> and certain that my dough is more sour than if left to proof only a =
couple=20
> of hours.

Nobody ever said that 2 hours rise is enough, but 4 or 5 hours at warm
room temperature could get you a pretty good rise, and a pretty sour and =

tasty loaf if you have done things right.

I will allow that refrigerated dough is gloppier than non-refrigerated, =
and
sometimes, if you are lucky, you will get little blisters on the crust =
when
you bake it (or unlucky if you happen to think that little blisters are
uncosmetic/sick.)

--
Dicky

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:33:13 -0700, "Dusty Bleher"
> spewed forth :


>Quite a few years ago I was on the same quest that you are. I'd read that
>the carb content of SD bread was significantly lower than "regular" bread.
>I thought I'd bookmarked that, but can't seem to locate it at the moment.
>
>If I find it, I'll be dropping it here for you...
>
><big sigh!>
>Dusty


You shall be my hero forever! I'm going to set a sponge tomorrow
evening and on Wednesday afternoon I shall eat a slice warm from the
oven with my own peach preserves. Be damned to the meter!

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.
Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...

Hey "Wooly";

Check out: http://www.eap.mcgill.ca/Publications/EAP35.htm. This wasn't
the article I was looking for, but it's a start.

How about you drop me a note off-group, and we can explore this issue
further?

....
> You shall be my hero forever! I'm going to set a sponge tomorrow
> evening and on Wednesday afternoon I shall eat a slice warm from the
> oven with my own peach preserves. Be damned to the meter!

Ummmm. Sounds wonderful! I'll do what I can to help...


Dusty
San Jose
....

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

> Well, I don't exactly know that, and, although it is not altogether
contrary to
> my experience, it is not confirmed by it either. Listen, when they are
working
> longer because of being cold, they are working slower, too.

FYI -- Some major SF sourdough bakeries (I won't name which ones) proof
their dough in the refrigerator overnight. One of the better companies
takes 36 hours to make one loaf of bread (including proofing the dough
overnight in the fridge).

On Tuesday, July 19, 2005, at 03:26 PM, The REAL Pope Emperor FrogMaN
wrote:

>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Well, I don't exactly know that, and, although it is not altogether
> contrary to
>> my experience, it is not confirmed by it either. Listen, when they
>> are
> working
>> longer because of being cold, they are working slower, too.
>
> FYI -- Some major SF sourdough bakeries (I won't name which ones) proof
> their dough in the refrigerator overnight. One of the better companies
> takes 36 hours to make one loaf of bread (including proofing the dough
> overnight in the fridge).
>

This wouldn't be the one with the $50,000 Spanish brick oven with the
rotating floor would it?

"Will" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1121808420.34082.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
>
> This wouldn't be the one with the $50,000 Spanish brick oven with the
> rotating floor would it?

Not the tourist place, if that's what you're talking about. The one on
Fisherman's Wharf.

"The REAL Pope Emperor FrogMaN" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Well, I don't exactly know that, and, although it is not altogether
> contrary to
> > my experience, it is not confirmed by it either. Listen, when they are
> working
> > longer because of being cold, they are working slower, too.
>
> FYI -- Some major SF sourdough bakeries (I won't name which ones) proof
> their dough in the refrigerator overnight. One of the better companies
> takes 36 hours to make one loaf of bread (including proofing the dough
> overnight in the fridge).

The reason why I won't name them, is because I don't remember their names
offhand.

"The REAL Pope Emperor FrogMaN" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Will" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.3.1121808420.34082.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
> >
> > This wouldn't be the one with the $50,000 Spanish brick oven with the
> > rotating floor would it?
>
> Not the tourist place, if that's what you're talking about. The one on
> Fisherman's Wharf.

Boudin is the name of the tourist place. To be honest, I don't even like
their bread. The best sourdough (non-homemade) that I've tasted is from a
little tiny bakery cafe in a little tiny village in France. I befriended
the owner and his family, and every year he sends me some of his bread. And
I send him some of mine.

Someone wrote:

"Oh, I see -- if you want your sourdough bread to be sour,
you put the dough in the fridge overnight!??"

This has not been my experience so far at all, and in the last few months I
have been experimenting with rather long fridge times. I have found that
different flavors develops in different temps, the "sour" flavor developing
in warmer fermentations. Without first letting room temperature
fermentation, the sour does not really show up at all, a mellower but still
aged flavor is the result. I am currently making bread with no room temp
fermentation whatsoever, all is done in the fridge. This takes a long time
as you can imagine, so when my fresh loaves come out of the oven, I pretty
much get started right away on my next batch for many days later. Straight
dough (a bit firmer than usual, otherwise things get soupy) with small
starter inoculation, mixed up but not really kneaded and put directly in the
fridge, takes a few days to rise. Punch down. Rise and punch down again.
Rise and take out, divide and form boules, return to fridge for final rise,
remove and bake immediately. There are definitely flavors developing in the
fridge in all this time, straight dough breads without fridge retard is not
comparable at all, but it is not sour.

Hutchndi