Howdy,

I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.

I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
had a question:

I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
cycles at 80F.

Its volume never increases by more than 100%.

When I first observed this, I thought that it had collapsed:
It certainly had gas in it (in the form of tiny bubbles
completely distributed though the starter), and it had the
"syrupy" character of a starter long past its period of
greatest activity. But, with more observation, that is
clearly not the case.

My Poilne starter at 100% will increase in volume between 4
and 5 times before collapsing.

Have any of you had similar experiences with the Wood SF?

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

I have had the same experience with all of the Sourdough International
starters that I've tried.

None of them gave me the expected rise/flavors that I expected. The book
made interesting reading though.

Thomas

I have had the same experience with all of the Sourdough International
starters that I've tried.

None of them gave me the expected rise/flavors that I expected. The book
made interesting reading though.

Thomas

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.
>
> I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
> had a question:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>
> When I first observed this, I thought that it had collapsed:
> It certainly had gas in it (in the form of tiny bubbles
> completely distributed though the starter), and it had the
> "syrupy" character of a starter long past its period of
> greatest activity. But, with more observation, that is
> clearly not the case.
>
> My Poil=E2ne starter at 100% will increase in volume between 4
> and 5 times before collapsing.
>
> Have any of you had similar experiences with the Wood SF?
>
> Thanks,
>=20
> --=20
> Kenneth

What does Mr. Woods have to say?

Will

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.
>
> I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
> had a question:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>
> When I first observed this, I thought that it had collapsed:
> It certainly had gas in it (in the form of tiny bubbles
> completely distributed though the starter), and it had the
> "syrupy" character of a starter long past its period of
> greatest activity. But, with more observation, that is
> clearly not the case.
>
> My Poil=E2ne starter at 100% will increase in volume between 4
> and 5 times before collapsing.
>
> Have any of you had similar experiences with the Wood SF?
>
> Thanks,
>=20
> --=20
> Kenneth

What does Mr. Woods have to say?

Will

"Kenneth" > wrote in message =
...

> ... Have any of you had similar experiences with the Wood SF?

There are some mentions recently at r.f.s. A search of the r.f.s. =
archive
at Google should turn them up. For instance, Lisse had things to say.
But you don't know how to do searches, and you have me killfiled
anyway.

Howdy, Kenneth.

--
DickA

"Kenneth" > wrote in message =
...

> ... Have any of you had similar experiences with the Wood SF?

There are some mentions recently at r.f.s. A search of the r.f.s. =
archive
at Google should turn them up. For instance, Lisse had things to say.
But you don't know how to do searches, and you have me killfiled
anyway.

Howdy, Kenneth.

--
DickA

"Will" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> What does Mr. Woods have to say?

There is little doubt Mrs. Wood would conclude that the fault is=20
with Kenneth.

"Will" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> What does Mr. Woods have to say?

There is little doubt Mrs. Wood would conclude that the fault is=20
with Kenneth.

"Will" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> What does Mr. Woods have to say?

There is little doubt Mrs. Wood would conclude that the fault is=20
with Kenneth.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Will" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> > What does Mr. Woods have to say?
>
> There is little doubt Mrs. Wood would conclude that the fault is
> with Kenneth.


Well that would present a problem wouldn't it? Because then we start
connecting the dots and we discover that several experienced levain
bakers couldn't make these starters perform. There is also the
distinct possibility that Mr./Mrs. Woods do not monitor the very
newgroups that cover his/her marketspace. Why would a business ignore
customers and potential customers?

Will

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Will" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> > What does Mr. Woods have to say?
>
> There is little doubt Mrs. Wood would conclude that the fault is
> with Kenneth.


Well that would present a problem wouldn't it? Because then we start
connecting the dots and we discover that several experienced levain
bakers couldn't make these starters perform. There is also the
distinct possibility that Mr./Mrs. Woods do not monitor the very
newgroups that cover his/her marketspace. Why would a business ignore
customers and potential customers?

Will

Kenneth wrote:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>
Try Room temperature and shorter refreshment cycles, ~6hr. Start
with 1 tsp of what you now have to a 1/4 cup water and enough
flour. Then go to 50% discard per refreshment.

I don't know specifically about the Woods SF, but I know that dry
start can come up "unbalanced". I have noticed that small
pinpoint bubbles with little rise occur in at least two forms.

When start is brought up cold, say low 60'sF, you can get the
pinpoint (Carbonation?) look with an apple or fruit smell to the
starter. This condition has always fixed itself for me with
warmer temps and continued feeding. By warmer I mean comfortable
room temperature.

When start is brought up in warm to very warm conditions, you can
also get the pinpoint carbonation look with little rise. Most
often this will also fix itself with continued feeding. However,
rarely, you get a condition with a sour smell and what I call
gluten destruction. When fed, the reaction is quite fast, a
matter of less than 4 hours. What ever gluten that is formed by
stirring in flour is rapidly destroyed and the culture loses
viscosity and apparently runs out of food without any rise in
volume as you would expect from normal culture. It smells and
tastes sour.

I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Kenneth wrote:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>
Try Room temperature and shorter refreshment cycles, ~6hr. Start
with 1 tsp of what you now have to a 1/4 cup water and enough
flour. Then go to 50% discard per refreshment.

I don't know specifically about the Woods SF, but I know that dry
start can come up "unbalanced". I have noticed that small
pinpoint bubbles with little rise occur in at least two forms.

When start is brought up cold, say low 60'sF, you can get the
pinpoint (Carbonation?) look with an apple or fruit smell to the
starter. This condition has always fixed itself for me with
warmer temps and continued feeding. By warmer I mean comfortable
room temperature.

When start is brought up in warm to very warm conditions, you can
also get the pinpoint carbonation look with little rise. Most
often this will also fix itself with continued feeding. However,
rarely, you get a condition with a sour smell and what I call
gluten destruction. When fed, the reaction is quite fast, a
matter of less than 4 hours. What ever gluten that is formed by
stirring in flour is rapidly destroyed and the culture loses
viscosity and apparently runs out of food without any rise in
volume as you would expect from normal culture. It smells and
tastes sour.

I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:42:27 GMT, Charles Perry
> wrote:

>
>
>Kenneth wrote:
>>
>> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
>> cycles at 80F.
>>
>> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.

>>SNIP<<

>I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
>that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
>without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
>times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.
>
>Regards,
>
>Charles

Hi Charles,

I will try your suggestion... (and will keep you posted).

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:42:27 GMT, Charles Perry
> wrote:

>
>
>Kenneth wrote:
>>
>> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
>> cycles at 80F.
>>
>> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.

>>SNIP<<

>I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
>that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
>without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
>times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.
>
>Regards,
>
>Charles

Hi Charles,

I will try your suggestion... (and will keep you posted).

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.
>
> I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
> had a question:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>


I do not use a Woods starter, I use one started by a friend of mine several
years ago. I generally keep it at a batter like consistency. When I take it
out of the fridge and go thru a couple of feed cycles prior to using it, it
never increases more than 100%. I cannot guarantee that the ambient temp is
at 80 deg when I feed it, sometimes I stick it in the oven with the light on
and sometimes it sits on the countertop so perhaps the temp is lower. OTOH
it has never failed to make good bread. Perhaps the best thing to do would
be to try a basic recipe and see what the bread looks and tastes like?

Ellen

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.
>
> I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
> had a question:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>


I do not use a Woods starter, I use one started by a friend of mine several
years ago. I generally keep it at a batter like consistency. When I take it
out of the fridge and go thru a couple of feed cycles prior to using it, it
never increases more than 100%. I cannot guarantee that the ambient temp is
at 80 deg when I feed it, sometimes I stick it in the oven with the light on
and sometimes it sits on the countertop so perhaps the temp is lower. OTOH
it has never failed to make good bread. Perhaps the best thing to do would
be to try a basic recipe and see what the bread looks and tastes like?

Ellen

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I recently found some dried SF starter from the Woods.
>
> I have not baked with it yet (but will later today) but I
> had a question:
>
> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
> cycles at 80F.
>
> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>


I do not use a Woods starter, I use one started by a friend of mine several
years ago. I generally keep it at a batter like consistency. When I take it
out of the fridge and go thru a couple of feed cycles prior to using it, it
never increases more than 100%. I cannot guarantee that the ambient temp is
at 80 deg when I feed it, sometimes I stick it in the oven with the light on
and sometimes it sits on the countertop so perhaps the temp is lower. OTOH
it has never failed to make good bread. Perhaps the best thing to do would
be to try a basic recipe and see what the bread looks and tastes like?

Ellen

In message
"Charles Perry" > advised Kenneth
about reviving a weak culture.

With due respect, I would predict that you, Charles Perry, in an
effort to revive a dead or very weak culture, would come up with
Carl's.

Similarly, I would expect Kenneth to come up with his "Poil=E2ne".

It is very difficult to forget the SDI advice that their cultures may
take as many as 5 days to revive.

--
DickA

In message
"Charles Perry" > advised Kenneth
about reviving a weak culture.

With due respect, I would predict that you, Charles Perry, in an
effort to revive a dead or very weak culture, would come up with
Carl's.

Similarly, I would expect Kenneth to come up with his "Poil=E2ne".

It is very difficult to forget the SDI advice that their cultures may
take as many as 5 days to revive.

--
DickA

> I don't know specifically about the Woods SF, but I know that dry
> start can come up "unbalanced". I have noticed that small
> pinpoint bubbles with little rise occur in at least two forms.
>
> When start is brought up cold, say low 60'sF, you can get the
> pinpoint (Carbonation?) look with an apple or fruit smell to the
> starter. This condition has always fixed itself for me with
> warmer temps and continued feeding. By warmer I mean comfortable
> room temperature.
>
> When start is brought up in warm to very warm conditions, you can
> also get the pinpoint carbonation look with little rise. Most
> often this will also fix itself with continued feeding. However,
> rarely, you get a condition with a sour smell and what I call
> gluten destruction. When fed, the reaction is quite fast, a
> matter of less than 4 hours. What ever gluten that is formed by
> stirring in flour is rapidly destroyed and the culture loses
> viscosity and apparently runs out of food without any rise in
> volume as you would expect from normal culture. It smells and
> tastes sour.
>
> I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
> that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
> without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
> times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck. >

This may be what has happened to mine. I do not feed it as much as I should
(although this is changing) and I noticed a remarkably fruity odor to the
starter, and the starter has not allowed the dough to rise, or at least not
much. I am getting a double volume in dough prior to baking. This may help
me get my starters back on track, though.
thanks!
gw

> I don't know specifically about the Woods SF, but I know that dry
> start can come up "unbalanced". I have noticed that small
> pinpoint bubbles with little rise occur in at least two forms.
>
> When start is brought up cold, say low 60'sF, you can get the
> pinpoint (Carbonation?) look with an apple or fruit smell to the
> starter. This condition has always fixed itself for me with
> warmer temps and continued feeding. By warmer I mean comfortable
> room temperature.
>
> When start is brought up in warm to very warm conditions, you can
> also get the pinpoint carbonation look with little rise. Most
> often this will also fix itself with continued feeding. However,
> rarely, you get a condition with a sour smell and what I call
> gluten destruction. When fed, the reaction is quite fast, a
> matter of less than 4 hours. What ever gluten that is formed by
> stirring in flour is rapidly destroyed and the culture loses
> viscosity and apparently runs out of food without any rise in
> volume as you would expect from normal culture. It smells and
> tastes sour.
>
> I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
> that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
> without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
> times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck. >

This may be what has happened to mine. I do not feed it as much as I should
(although this is changing) and I noticed a remarkably fruity odor to the
starter, and the starter has not allowed the dough to rise, or at least not
much. I am getting a double volume in dough prior to baking. This may help
me get my starters back on track, though.
thanks!
gw

Dick Adams wrote:
>
> ... I would predict that you, Charles Perry, in an
> effort to revive a dead or very weak culture, would come up with
> Carl's.
>
> Similarly, I would expect Kenneth to come up with his "Poilne".
>
When I grind dry start, a puff of "smoke" rises into the air
every time I raise the lid of the blender to check the progress
of the grinding. I have no Idea where it goes; Maybe the furnace
filter? If I attempted to catch a culture from the air, no doubt
it would be Carl's. But, I think a unbalanced or weak culture
would have a good chance of becomming dominated by organisims
that were already present in the culture.

I speculate that most of the odd cultures come from critters
present in the dry start or introduced with the flour rather than
any captured from the air. Back when I was closely observing the
starter revival process, I would often notice that there would be
some very early activity evidenced by tiny bubbles. I mean
teeny, tiny bubbles. This early activity would cease or continue
at a very slow rate until some time later more agressive action
would be apparent by somewhat larger bubbles.

I am unable to think of a reason why fermentation by normal
sourdough creatures would begin and then pause when the medium
was in good shape. My speculation is that some minor part of the
sourdough culture or some foreign bug gets off to a fast start
and then is overcome by the competition from normal culture
critters when things go as they should.

My speculation is that the real bad bugs, like the gluten
destroying creatures come in with the flour, but I can't prove
that. It all may be unbalance of some kind from things natural
to sourdough culture.

My only real first hand experience with culture from SDI was a
Russian start that proved to be DOA. My experience with Carl's
indicates that start, even old start from the freezer, will come
up in 24 hours or not at all. I would not try beyond 48 hours
because I think that it would be a lotto on what would be
growing.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Dick Adams wrote:
>
> ... I would predict that you, Charles Perry, in an
> effort to revive a dead or very weak culture, would come up with
> Carl's.
>
> Similarly, I would expect Kenneth to come up with his "Poilne".
>
When I grind dry start, a puff of "smoke" rises into the air
every time I raise the lid of the blender to check the progress
of the grinding. I have no Idea where it goes; Maybe the furnace
filter? If I attempted to catch a culture from the air, no doubt
it would be Carl's. But, I think a unbalanced or weak culture
would have a good chance of becomming dominated by organisims
that were already present in the culture.

I speculate that most of the odd cultures come from critters
present in the dry start or introduced with the flour rather than
any captured from the air. Back when I was closely observing the
starter revival process, I would often notice that there would be
some very early activity evidenced by tiny bubbles. I mean
teeny, tiny bubbles. This early activity would cease or continue
at a very slow rate until some time later more agressive action
would be apparent by somewhat larger bubbles.

I am unable to think of a reason why fermentation by normal
sourdough creatures would begin and then pause when the medium
was in good shape. My speculation is that some minor part of the
sourdough culture or some foreign bug gets off to a fast start
and then is overcome by the competition from normal culture
critters when things go as they should.

My speculation is that the real bad bugs, like the gluten
destroying creatures come in with the flour, but I can't prove
that. It all may be unbalance of some kind from things natural
to sourdough culture.

My only real first hand experience with culture from SDI was a
Russian start that proved to be DOA. My experience with Carl's
indicates that start, even old start from the freezer, will come
up in 24 hours or not at all. I would not try beyond 48 hours
because I think that it would be a lotto on what would be
growing.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Dick Adams wrote:
>
> ... I would predict that you, Charles Perry, in an
> effort to revive a dead or very weak culture, would come up with
> Carl's.
>
> Similarly, I would expect Kenneth to come up with his "Poilne".
>
When I grind dry start, a puff of "smoke" rises into the air
every time I raise the lid of the blender to check the progress
of the grinding. I have no Idea where it goes; Maybe the furnace
filter? If I attempted to catch a culture from the air, no doubt
it would be Carl's. But, I think a unbalanced or weak culture
would have a good chance of becomming dominated by organisims
that were already present in the culture.

I speculate that most of the odd cultures come from critters
present in the dry start or introduced with the flour rather than
any captured from the air. Back when I was closely observing the
starter revival process, I would often notice that there would be
some very early activity evidenced by tiny bubbles. I mean
teeny, tiny bubbles. This early activity would cease or continue
at a very slow rate until some time later more agressive action
would be apparent by somewhat larger bubbles.

I am unable to think of a reason why fermentation by normal
sourdough creatures would begin and then pause when the medium
was in good shape. My speculation is that some minor part of the
sourdough culture or some foreign bug gets off to a fast start
and then is overcome by the competition from normal culture
critters when things go as they should.

My speculation is that the real bad bugs, like the gluten
destroying creatures come in with the flour, but I can't prove
that. It all may be unbalance of some kind from things natural
to sourdough culture.

My only real first hand experience with culture from SDI was a
Russian start that proved to be DOA. My experience with Carl's
indicates that start, even old start from the freezer, will come
up in 24 hours or not at all. I would not try beyond 48 hours
because I think that it would be a lotto on what would be
growing.

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Dick Adams wrote:

> It is very difficult to forget the SDI advice that their cultures may
> take as many as 5 days to revive.

by which time it would be a tossup what was in there, i would imagine.

b/, waiting for a keyboard to arrive

Dick Adams wrote:

> It is very difficult to forget the SDI advice that their cultures may
> take as many as 5 days to revive.

by which time it would be a tossup what was in there, i would imagine.

b/, waiting for a keyboard to arrive

On 2/17/05 12:26 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

> When I grind dry start, a puff of "smoke" rises into the air
> every time I raise the lid of the blender to check the progress
> of the grinding.

Charles,

Why would you grind the dry start material? Does in not rehydrate otherwise?
I ask as I'm going to retire a couple of cultures.

I had thought to borrow from Carl's technique (in FAQ's) of drying a thin
slab, perhaps created by running a an unsalted piece of mature dough through
a pasta roller, cutting the "sheet" into postage stamp size pieces, then
drying and freezing.

I was under the assumption that powder might be more easily contaminated:
more surface area, invasive air mixing operation via blender, etc...

Will

On 2/17/05 12:26 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

> When I grind dry start, a puff of "smoke" rises into the air
> every time I raise the lid of the blender to check the progress
> of the grinding.

Charles,

Why would you grind the dry start material? Does in not rehydrate otherwise?
I ask as I'm going to retire a couple of cultures.

I had thought to borrow from Carl's technique (in FAQ's) of drying a thin
slab, perhaps created by running a an unsalted piece of mature dough through
a pasta roller, cutting the "sheet" into postage stamp size pieces, then
drying and freezing.

I was under the assumption that powder might be more easily contaminated:
more surface area, invasive air mixing operation via blender, etc...

Will

Will wrote:
>
>
> Why would you grind the dry start material? Does in not rehydrate otherwise?
> I ask as I'm going to retire a couple of cultures.
>
To store dry start you want to keep it cold, dry and away from
air. I have several samples stored in pill bottles that in turn
are inside a freezer container stored in the freezer.

In theory, chunks of start might have some advantage, but ground
start is easier to handle. You can fill up your container to the
top and exclude most of the air. If you use chunks, I would fill
the container with flour to drive out air. I use Carl's method
that is documented in the FAQ's. I dry the stuff on a cookie
sheet that is covered with Saran Wrap. Just pour it out, spread
it around and let it dry.

There is nothing wrong with making noodles from sourdough
culture, I just find it easier to handle the ground up stuff.
When Ticker asks for a taste of start, I can measure out a
teaspoon of dry easier than getting out the scale and weighing
her allotment. She will eat herself sick on the stuff if I don't
control her diet as best I can. She says she doesn't, but I
think that sometimes she misses the time when she was
participating in, and winning, starter tasting contests.

Before you commit all of a starter culture to the freezer be sure
to try freezing and restoring. Possibly, not all cultures will
survive. Freezing will kill some strains of yeast.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Will wrote:
>
>
> Why would you grind the dry start material? Does in not rehydrate otherwise?
> I ask as I'm going to retire a couple of cultures.
>
To store dry start you want to keep it cold, dry and away from
air. I have several samples stored in pill bottles that in turn
are inside a freezer container stored in the freezer.

In theory, chunks of start might have some advantage, but ground
start is easier to handle. You can fill up your container to the
top and exclude most of the air. If you use chunks, I would fill
the container with flour to drive out air. I use Carl's method
that is documented in the FAQ's. I dry the stuff on a cookie
sheet that is covered with Saran Wrap. Just pour it out, spread
it around and let it dry.

There is nothing wrong with making noodles from sourdough
culture, I just find it easier to handle the ground up stuff.
When Ticker asks for a taste of start, I can measure out a
teaspoon of dry easier than getting out the scale and weighing
her allotment. She will eat herself sick on the stuff if I don't
control her diet as best I can. She says she doesn't, but I
think that sometimes she misses the time when she was
participating in, and winning, starter tasting contests.

Before you commit all of a starter culture to the freezer be sure
to try freezing and restoring. Possibly, not all cultures will
survive. Freezing will kill some strains of yeast.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

On 2/17/05 1:59 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

> Before you commit all of a starter culture to the freezer be sure
> to try freezing and restoring. Possibly, not all cultures will
> survive. Freezing will kill some strains of yeast.

That's what's keeping them in service. I have been afraid to do this. They
are older cultures and have produced a lot of bread over the years. Problem
is, every time I open a new bag of grain, I start wondering: What might be
lurking there?

Will

On 2/17/05 1:59 PM, "Charles Perry" > wrote:

> Before you commit all of a starter culture to the freezer be sure
> to try freezing and restoring. Possibly, not all cultures will
> survive. Freezing will kill some strains of yeast.

That's what's keeping them in service. I have been afraid to do this. They
are older cultures and have produced a lot of bread over the years. Problem
is, every time I open a new bag of grain, I start wondering: What might be
lurking there?

Will

Charles Perry wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with making noodles from sourdough
> culture,

the hungarians--magyars--have been doing it for some centuries now.

b/

Charles Perry wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with making noodles from sourdough
> culture,

the hungarians--magyars--have been doing it for some centuries now.

b/

Will wrote:
>
> That's what's keeping them in service. I have been afraid to do this. They
> are older cultures and have produced a lot of bread over the years.

It is easy to check. Just put some culture in a container and
put it in the freezer for a week. then take it out , thaw, and
feed. If it works, you are golden. Yeast that won't take
freezing die quickly; maybe 24 to 36 hours. Probably much less
of chance of disaster if the stuff is dry before freezing. The
stuff that died for me was dead in 24 hours. It wasn't soudough
anyway, so not a loss

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Will wrote:
>
> That's what's keeping them in service. I have been afraid to do this. They
> are older cultures and have produced a lot of bread over the years.

It is easy to check. Just put some culture in a container and
put it in the freezer for a week. then take it out , thaw, and
feed. If it works, you are golden. Yeast that won't take
freezing die quickly; maybe 24 to 36 hours. Probably much less
of chance of disaster if the stuff is dry before freezing. The
stuff that died for me was dead in 24 hours. It wasn't soudough
anyway, so not a loss

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:09:11 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:42:27 GMT, Charles Perry
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Kenneth wrote:
>>>
>>> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
>>> cycles at 80F.
>>>
>>> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>
>>>SNIP<<
>
>>I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
>>that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
>>without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
>>times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Charles
>
>Hi Charles,
>
>I will try your suggestion... (and will keep you posted).
>
>All the best,

Hi Charles,

I have fed it two cycles at 68F and to my surprise its
characteristics have changed dramatically. It now increases
in volume more than three times and traps the gas rather
than having the pinpoint bubble character.

Interesting...

Sincere thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 2/18/05 7:18 AM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:09:11 -0500, Kenneth
> > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:42:27 GMT, Charles Perry
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kenneth wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I keep it at 100% and have fed it through perhaps 10 12 hour
>>>> cycles at 80F.
>>>>
>>>> Its volume never increases by more than 100%.
>>
>>>> SNIP<<
>>
>>> I have had this recover by treating the culture as if it was one
>>> that was almost dead from lying in the refigerator too long
>>> without food. However, I have had to give up on a couple of
>>> times because the "washing" procedures did not work. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charles
>>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> I will try your suggestion... (and will keep you posted).
>>
>> All the best,
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> I have fed it two cycles at 68F and to my surprise its
> characteristics have changed dramatically. It now increases
> in volume more than three times and traps the gas rather
> than having the pinpoint bubble character.
>
> Interesting...

Sounds like a fast starter to me. You slowed it down with temp, shortened
refreshment intervals and voila...

I guess Woods is out of the woods <g>.

Will