There is a lot of talk in the faq about looking for foam and bubbles
and so on in deciding when the dough is ready for the next stage. I
use a firm whole wheat starter and bake 100% whole wheat bread, so
there's no foam; since I can't easily see how many bubbles there are, I
tend to use odor as my indicator.

The dough goes from a distinct "wheat germ" smell at the beginning to a
"fruity" / "champagney" smell after some time, then, when optimally
ready for the next build, the dough gets a distinctly "sour" odor.
Ironically, this last one is the least aesthetic of all the odors; it
can at times even smell a bit "off". But that's when the dough is
filled with air and light and ready for the next build. It doesn't
taste sour, mind you, just smells that way.

I've noticed my white and rye starters tend to go through roughly the
same progression (alcoholly, then sour) but obviously don't smell of
germ at the beginning. I've noticed the same progression when using a
liquid or firm starter and dough as well.
Anyone use odor as an indicator? If so what guideposts do you use?

On 1/29/05 3:45 PM, "Jonathan Kandell" > wrote:

> There is a lot of talk in the faq about looking for foam and bubbles
> and so on in deciding when the dough is ready for the next stage. I
> use a firm whole wheat starter and bake 100% whole wheat bread, so
> there's no foam; since I can't easily see how many bubbles there are, I
> tend to use odor as my indicator.
>
> The dough goes from a distinct "wheat germ" smell at the beginning to a
> "fruity" / "champagney" smell after some time, then, when optimally
> ready for the next build, the dough gets a distinctly "sour" odor.
> Ironically, this last one is the least aesthetic of all the odors; it
> can at times even smell a bit "off". But that's when the dough is
> filled with air and light and ready for the next build. It doesn't
> taste sour, mind you, just smells that way.
>
> I've noticed my white and rye starters tend to go through roughly the
> same progression (alcoholly, then sour) but obviously don't smell of
> germ at the beginning. I've noticed the same progression when using a
> liquid or firm starter and dough as well.
> Anyone use odor as an indicator? If so what guideposts do you use?

I do it the same way, keeping several starters: rye, red wheat, white wheat,
and white flour. Scent progression is the same. I hadn't thought to call it
champaigney, it reminds me more of fermenting cider. But then I'm more
acquainted with cider than champaigne. I'm pretty sure we're talking the
same thing.

I think it is an easier and less contrived way to do things. The nose is
very precise. You know what you need to know very directly.

I have no patience for side effects like "hooch". The starters can outgas
cleanly, why trap the wastes? "Hooch" reminds me of the "U" trap under the
kitchen sink.

One knowledgeable poster wrote the other day that the FAQ's tend to preserve
"old wives tales" about sourdough. He was talking about metal utensils, tap
water and such. But he was on to something. There are still a lot of
sourheads out there who think that you mix flour and water to create a
culture medium but you "catch" the starter germs from the surrounding air.
Medieval.




>
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

"Will" > wrote in message =
news:mailman.35.1107037663.263.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...

> [ ... ]

> There are still a lot of sourheads out there who think that you
> mix flour and water to create a culture medium but you "catch"=20
> the starter germs from the surrounding air.

They fall out with itty-bitty nose puppies when you sniff your mix.

So sniff away, suckers ...

On 1/29/05 4:52 PM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:

> They fall out with itty-bitty nose puppies when you sniff your mix.

Good thing you straightened that out for us, Dick!

On 1/29/05 3:45 PM, "Jonathan Kandell" > wrote:

> There is a lot of talk in the faq about looking for foam and bubbles
> and so on in deciding when the dough is ready for the next stage. I
> use a firm whole wheat starter and bake 100% whole wheat bread, so
> there's no foam; since I can't easily see how many bubbles there are, I
> tend to use odor as my indicator.
>
> The dough goes from a distinct "wheat germ" smell at the beginning to a
> "fruity" / "champagney" smell after some time, then, when optimally
> ready for the next build, the dough gets a distinctly "sour" odor.
> Ironically, this last one is the least aesthetic of all the odors; it
> can at times even smell a bit "off". But that's when the dough is
> filled with air and light and ready for the next build. It doesn't
> taste sour, mind you, just smells that way.
>
> I've noticed my white and rye starters tend to go through roughly the
> same progression (alcoholly, then sour) but obviously don't smell of
> germ at the beginning. I've noticed the same progression when using a
> liquid or firm starter and dough as well.
> Anyone use odor as an indicator? If so what guideposts do you use?

I do it the same way, keeping several starters: rye, red wheat, white wheat,
and white flour. Scent progression is the same. I hadn't thought to call it
champaigney, it reminds me more of fermenting cider. But then I'm more
acquainted with cider than champaigne. I'm pretty sure we're talking the
same thing.

I think it is an easier and less contrived way to do things. The nose is
very precise. You know what you need to know very directly.

I have no patience for side effects like "hooch". The starters can outgas
cleanly, why trap the wastes? "Hooch" reminds me of the "U" trap under the
kitchen sink.

One knowledgeable poster wrote the other day that the FAQ's tend to preserve
"old wives tales" about sourdough. He was talking about metal utensils, tap
water and such. But he was on to something. There are still a lot of
sourheads out there who think that you mix flour and water to create a
culture medium but you "catch" the starter germs from the surrounding air.
Medieval.




>
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

Jonathan Kandell wrote:

>There is a lot of talk in the faq about looking for foam and bubbles
>and so on in deciding when the dough is ready for the next stage. I
>use a firm whole wheat starter and bake 100% whole wheat bread, so
>there's no foam; since I can't easily see how many bubbles there are, I
>tend to use odor as my indicator.
>
>The dough goes from a distinct "wheat germ" smell at the beginning to a
>"fruity" / "champagney" smell after some time, then, when optimally
>ready for the next build, the dough gets a distinctly "sour" odor.
>Ironically, this last one is the least aesthetic of all the odors; it
>can at times even smell a bit "off". But that's when the dough is
>filled with air and light and ready for the next build. It doesn't
>taste sour, mind you, just smells that way.
>
>I've noticed my white and rye starters tend to go through roughly the
>same progression (alcoholly, then sour) but obviously don't smell of
>germ at the beginning. I've noticed the same progression when using a
>liquid or firm starter and dough as well.
>Anyone use odor as an indicator? If so what guideposts do you use?
>
>
>
I just started making my own starter, and use both smell and taste as
guides. As a homebrewer of about fifteen years, the temperature,
density and type of yeast all have influence on the end product. The
yeast can and will produce alcohols, esters, and other byproducts that
can have the following flavor/aroma profiles:

* acetaldehyde (green apple aroma)
* diacetyl (taste or aroma of buttery, butterscotch)
* dimethyl sulfide (DMS) (taste or aroma of sweet corn, cooked veggies)
* clove (spicy character reminiscent of cloves)
* fruity / estery (flavour and aroma of bananas, strawberries,
apples, or other fruit)
* medicinal (chemical or phenolic character)
* phenolic (flavour and aroma of medicine, plastic, Band-Aids,
smoke, or cloves)
* solvent (reminiscent of acetone or lacquer thinner)
* sulfur (reminiscent of rotten eggs or burnt matches)

Carlo, wow, can't say I've smelled most of those. For curiosity, are
all of those flavors/aromas good? Are any cause for concern? Which
odors are associated with the dough being ripe for the next build?