I admit it. I am a rookie, but I do want to do this right, and have a good
product at the end of the day.

I have a pretty cold kitchen. It is north-east facing and gets very little
sun. I keep the thermostat down ($$$) and there is a dog door as well. How
necessary is a warm kitchen for a good rise? Can the necessity for a warm
kitchen be overcome by more time?

Please be gentle.

Thanks
Tim

Tim wrote:
> How
> necessary is a warm kitchen for a good rise? Can the necessity for a warm
> kitchen be overcome by more time?

A cold kitchen is not a bad thing since sourdough is improved with a
longer, cooler, primary ferment. So if your kitchen is in the 50 to
60 degree range... that's fine. You still have to engineer a warm
final proof but that's easy. A hot pad (from the second hand shop) and
an inverted box does the trick for me. Should work for you too.

"Will" > wrote in message ...

> A cold kitchen is not a bad thing since sourdough is improved with a
> longer, cooler, primary ferment. So if your kitchen is in the 50 to
> 60 degree range... that's fine. You still have to engineer a warm
> final proof but that's easy. A hot pad (from the second hand shop) and
> an inverted box does the trick for me. Should work for you too.

Oh, ho -- I dunno. Some folks insist that the best place for rising
is the fridge.

The loaves I recently mentioned* rose mostly overnight at 55°F. But
they had almost recovered to 68° daytime ambient. If the temperature had
stayed at 55%, I guess I would have needed to rise a bit longer, like 5 or 6
hours more, maybe 10.

*

In the summertime, the rising is faster, but the bread is the same in taste and
otherwise.

There is one thing here to consider, and that is the escape of rising gas through
the loaf skin. That's bound to be less for a short (warm) rise. So the ultimate
size of the loaf is probably larger for a shorter warmer rise.

That is theoretical for the most part, because most peoples' loaves start to
collapse before they have risen very far, like two volumes, for instance.
Warm rising might be good for that. A really long cool rise for a collapsing loaf
could lead to total collapse (the oft-mentioned sourdough brick).

"Carlos" says that cool rises are good.

--
Dicky

P.S. It is very convenient to have a warm (85-90°C.) place for refreshing the
starter. But that does not need to be a very large place. Like a bulb in a
box.

Dick Adams wrote:

> P.S. It is very convenient to have a warm (85-90°C.) place for refreshing the
> starter. But that does not need to be a very large place. Like a bulb in a
> box.

Hmm - sounds more like an Easy-Bake Oven, Dicky...

Tim wrote:
> I admit it. I am a rookie, but I do want to do this right, and have a
> good product at the end of the day.
>
> I have a pretty cold kitchen. It is north-east facing and gets very
> little sun. I keep the thermostat down ($$$) and there is a dog door as
> well. How necessary is a warm kitchen for a good rise? Can the necessity
> for a warm kitchen be overcome by more time?
>
> Please be gentle.
>
> Thanks
> Tim

I pre-warm my oven to 200F, then use that to store the rising bread in.
I sometimes have to pull the loaf out and warm the oven again, then put
the loaf back in for more rise time. Seems to work OK.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message ...
> Dick Adams wrote:
>
> > P.S. It is very convenient to have a warm (85-90°C.) place for refreshing the
> > starter. But that does not need to be a very large place. Like a bulb in a
> > box.
>
> Hmm - sounds more like an Easy-Bake Oven, Dicky...

Excellent observation: if you know a little girl with an Easy-Bake Oven,
you could steal it from her. I don't why I did not think of that.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Dave Bell" > wrote in message ...
>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>>> P.S. It is very convenient to have a warm (85-90°C.) place for refreshing the
>>> starter. But that does not need to be a very large place. Like a bulb in a
>>> box.
>> Hmm - sounds more like an Easy-Bake Oven, Dicky...
>
> Excellent observation: if you know a little girl with an Easy-Bake Oven,
> you could steal it from her. I don't why I did not think of that.

Actually, I was observing the "(85-90°C.)", but you're right, an BO
would make a nice warming box!

Dave

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message ...
> Actually, I was observing the "(85-90°C.)", but you're right, an BO
> would make a nice warming box!

Oh, well, it was a mistake. I wrote C. but meant F.

I am sorry, but I cannot worry about mistakes. If I did, I would never
be able to post anything. Of course 85°C. is much too hot.

98.6°C. is too hot to bathe a baby. Altogether amazing that my
babies grew up.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Dave Bell" > wrote in message ...
>> Actually, I was observing the "(85-90°C.)", but you're right, an BO
>> would make a nice warming box!
>
> Oh, well, it was a mistake. I wrote C. but meant F.

I knwo :{)

> I am sorry, but I cannot worry about mistakes. If I did, I would never
> be able to post anything. Of course 85°C. is much too hot.
>
> 98.6°C. is too hot to bathe a baby. Altogether amazing that my
> babies grew up.

Really?!? Mine, too...
Who came up with that revised figure?