I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
basic bread recipes sourdough? Do I just sub out some flour and water
and add the starter or what?

wrote:
> I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
> basic bread recipes sourdough? Do I just sub out some flour and water
> and add the starter or what?

I use a formula found in The Joy Of Cooking cookbook which says 2 cups
of sponge equal 1 measure of yeast. My 2 cups of sponge stirs down to 1
cup. I usually have to adjust the liquid slightly that the recipe calls
for.

I use this all the time with good success. The rise times will be
different than the recipe also, but letting something 'double' is still
double no matter if it takes 1 hour or 3.

Sourdough pizza is wicked.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message g.com...
> I use a formula found in The Joy Of Cooking cookbook which says 2 cups
> of sponge equal 1 measure of yeast. My 2 cups of sponge stirs down to 1
> cup.

Which measure was that? Are we saying that one measure of yeast actually
actually has the leavening power of one cup of stirred-down sponge and
that The Joy forgot to mention about stirring down?

Not everyone can remember this, but the little spoon that came with
each Gilbert chemistry set was called "the measure". (Just a little bit of
nostalgia here to round things out.) That measure, actually an itty-bitty
spatula with a rounded tip, would measure maybe 25 milligrams. That
much yeast would actually be enough to leaven a couple of loaves of
bread, but it might take over 24 hours to do it.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message g.com...
>> I use a formula found in The Joy Of Cooking cookbook which says 2 cups
>> of sponge equal 1 measure of yeast. My 2 cups of sponge stirs down to 1
>> cup.
>
> Which measure was that? Are we saying that one measure of yeast actually
> actually has the leavening power of one cup of stirred-down sponge and
> that The Joy forgot to mention about stirring down?
>
> Not everyone can remember this, but the little spoon that came with
> each Gilbert chemistry set was called "the measure". (Just a little bit of
> nostalgia here to round things out.) That measure, actually an itty-bitty
> spatula with a rounded tip, would measure maybe 25 milligrams. That
> much yeast would actually be enough to leaven a couple of loaves of
> bread, but it might take over 24 hours to do it.
>
> --
> Dicky

Every cookbook that I read and every brand of yeast that I buy 'all'
call one 'measure' of yeast either one individual pack of yeast which
equals 2 1/4 teaspoons which equals one cake which equals one scant
tablespoon.

Now I 'am' in Canada eh, so maybe they measure yeast different where you
are, sorry if I confused you. I wasn't aware that there was any other
'measure' for yeast.

To Quote The Joy of Cooking, just to keep you happy: Two cups of this
foamy mixture are substituted for one cake or package of yeast and it's
liquid. End Quote.

2 cups of 'My' active 'foamy mixture' stirs down to one cup, yours may
not. Don't see how that could confuse you too, but hey.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message g.com...
> Every cookbook that I read and every brand of yeast that I buy 'all'
> call one 'measure' of yeast either one individual pack of yeast which
> equals 2 1/4 teaspoons which equals one cake which equals one scant
> tablespoon.

Nope, cookbooks do not measure yeast in units of 'measure', nor do
brands of yeast bought by you or anybody else.

Your web photos indicate that you can make bread and take photos,
which is a wonder considering the fuzziness of your thought and the
imprecision of your exposition.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message g.com...
>> Every cookbook that I read and every brand of yeast that I buy 'all'
>> call one 'measure' of yeast either one individual pack of yeast which
>> equals 2 1/4 teaspoons which equals one cake which equals one scant
>> tablespoon.
>
> Nope, cookbooks do not measure yeast in units of 'measure', nor do
> brands of yeast bought by you or anybody else.
>
> Your web photos indicate that you can make bread and take photos,
> which is a wonder considering the fuzziness of your thought and the
> imprecision of your exposition.
>

Well, I tried Google and found the whole world all seems to think one
measure of yeast is 1 packet or one cube or 2 1/4 tsp or 7-8 gm
(depending on brand) or 1/4 oz or 1 scant tbsp.

Wikipedia calls one measure a 'dose' of yeast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker%27s_yeast

They describe it as, Quote: yeast for home use is often packaged in
pre-measured doses, either small squares for compressed yeast or sealed
packets for dry or instant. A single dose (reckoned for the average
bread recipe of between 500g and 1000g of dough) is generally about 2.5
tsp or about 7g. End Quote.

Maybe the whole world is wrong also, but 'my' bread sure turns out nice
using those equivalents with the 2 cups of sponge as one of them
according to 'The Joy of Cooking'....

I think I will use the words 'dose of yeast', sounds better than
'measure of yeast', or would that be too confusing too? Should I always
say "1 packet or one cube or 2 1/4 tsp or 7-8 gm (depending on brand)
or 1/4 oz or 1 scant tbsp equals 2 cups of Sourdough sponge for
leavening power and speed' instead? Kinda long winded.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

wrote:
> I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
> basic bread recipes sourdough? Do I just sub out some flour and
> water and add the starter or what?

Yes.

In Message-ID: >:

"I have been successful in converting conventional recipes to sourdough
by substituting the water and flour in this way:

Assume the recipe calls for one cup of water.

Replace the water by half that amount of starter (1/2 cup in this case)
plus half the amount (1/2 cup in this case of water).

Reduce the flour by half the amount (1/2 cup) of the water.

Omit the yeast."

The tid-bit that nearly everyone overlooks is: Unless the recipe is for a
"sweet" bread, leave out the sugar. The only purpose for the sugar is to
feed the yeast (except for those things that are supposed to be sweet). And
if you're making bread, it's probably not meant to be sweet tasting.


L8r all,
Dusty -- Everett, Wa.


> wrote in message
...
>I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
> basic bread recipes sourdough? Do I just sub out some flour and water
> and add the starter or what?

On 28 Feb, 17:57, " >
wrote:
> I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
> basic bread recipes sourdough? *Do I just sub out some flour and water
> and add the starter or what?

You don't need any formula, lol, from some numpty that obviously
hasn't got a clue. All you have to do is use the recipe that's been
given, leave out the yeast, and use some of the water and flour from
the recipe to feed a small bit of your starter, say a teaspoon, how
long all this takes depends on your starter, the temperature and how
big the bread in recipe is. How you build isn't important as long as
your starter is a regular starter and not one of those made by other
numpty authors such as Nancy Silverton. If you know how much water and
flour is in your starter then you can start from however much starter
you like or have. Again timing is up to you and your starter so keep
an eye on it. I regularly bake from just a teaspoon of starter into
four pounds of dough it takes up to about 24 hours but that can be
useful, this isn't rocket science so really anything will work within
reason. Though if you want to make a dough the same as in the recipe
then following someone's advice about substituting two cups of flour
for a measure of yeast, whatever that is, a cup? lol, you're in for
disappointment or two cups of spare dough at the end. lol

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:20:53 -0800 (PST), TG
> wrote:

>On 28 Feb, 17:57, " >
>wrote:
>> I have a nice starter and I was wondering how do I make any of my
>> basic bread recipes sourdough? *Do I just sub out some flour and water
>> and add the starter or what?
>
>You don't need any formula, lol, from some numpty that obviously
>hasn't got a clue. All you have to do is use the recipe that's been
>given, leave out the yeast, and use some of the water and flour from
>the recipe to feed a small bit of your starter, say a teaspoon, how
>long all this takes depends on your starter, the temperature and how
>big the bread in recipe is. How you build isn't important as long as
>your starter is a regular starter and not one of those made by other
>numpty authors such as Nancy Silverton. If you know how much water and
>flour is in your starter then you can start from however much starter
>you like or have. Again timing is up to you and your starter so keep
>an eye on it. I regularly bake from just a teaspoon of starter into
>four pounds of dough it takes up to about 24 hours but that can be
>useful, this isn't rocket science so really anything will work within
>reason. Though if you want to make a dough the same as in the recipe
>then following someone's advice about substituting two cups of flour
>for a measure of yeast, whatever that is, a cup? lol, you're in for
>disappointment or two cups of spare dough at the end. lol

Howdy,

Though your "teaspoon" of starter approach will certainly
work, matters are not quite a simple as you suggest.

That is because the proportion of starter to other
ingredients is a significant variable. The results would be
different were you to suggest using an amount of starter
that would provide, say, a third of the flour in the loaf.

Also, what is your beef with Nancy Silverton? The only
difficulty I have seen with her starter generation method is
that of quantity. (She does not discard anything, and, as a
result, ends up with oceans of the stuff.)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 29 Feb, 15:04, Kenneth > wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:20:53 -0800 (PST), TG


> Howdy,
>
> Though your "teaspoon" of starter approach will certainly
> work,

Yep, and that's all that matters.

> matters are not quite a simple as you suggest.

No shit.


> That is because the proportion of starter to other
> ingredients is a significant variable.

What are you talking about Kenneth, are you seriously going to argue
about unknowns, about hypothetical recipes? Kenneth you must rally
need to feel clever about something. My advice was general as is your
criticism. What ingredients are you talking about? What a load of
hypothetical, meaningless waste of time.
.....
>
> Also, what is your beef with Nancy Silverton?

She's a nut. Not only does she suggest making buckets of starter from
grapes, which is utterly pointless and counter productive if you want
to make a sourdough starter, okay if you're stranded in the middle of
nowhere and you need to make bread and all you have is grapes and
flour, wait, oh yeah, you don't need the grapes. Not only that, she
advocates eating it. You can't seriously tell people to get a big
bucket of rotting flour and grapes and then eat it without some advice
to the nuts daft enough to try.


Jim

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:12:12 -0800 (PST), TG
> wrote:

>On 29 Feb, 15:04, Kenneth > wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:20:53 -0800 (PST), TG
>
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Though your "teaspoon" of starter approach will certainly
>> work,
>
>Yep, and that's all that matters.
>
>> matters are not quite a simple as you suggest.
>
>No shit.
>
>
>> That is because the proportion of starter to other
>> ingredients is a significant variable.
>
>What are you talking about Kenneth, are you seriously going to argue
>about unknowns, about hypothetical recipes? Kenneth you must rally
>need to feel clever about something. My advice was general as is your
>criticism. What ingredients are you talking about? What a load of
>hypothetical, meaningless waste of time.
>....
>>
>> Also, what is your beef with Nancy Silverton?
>
>She's a nut. Not only does she suggest making buckets of starter from
>grapes, which is utterly pointless and counter productive if you want
>to make a sourdough starter, okay if you're stranded in the middle of
>nowhere and you need to make bread and all you have is grapes and
>flour, wait, oh yeah, you don't need the grapes. Not only that, she
>advocates eating it. You can't seriously tell people to get a big
>bucket of rotting flour and grapes and then eat it without some advice
>to the nuts daft enough to try.
>
>
>Jim

Hi Jim,

Her reputation speaks for itself, but I will mention that I
had an occasion to talk with Nancy Silverton a while ago.

She was obviously smart, and very knowledgeable, but more
than that, was extraordinarily generous with her time, and
her efforts to assist me.

Beyond that, I have no idea what set you off, but your
hostility is a far greater burden to you than it is to me.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

lol, Oh Kenneth, you really do read my posts. I can assure you I have
no hostility towards you at all. If you mean to Nancy, I've already
explained that and that's as far as my feelings about her go. But if
reputation were a good measure of someones worth then I think there
would be no bad leaders. But anyway, I'm sure she's a lovely lady. I
really have no feelings about her as a person. I simply comment on her
advice as a baker. When I said, 'she's a nut' I was using American
vernacular and so joking.

It seems to me Kenneth that you like to feel someone has been 'set
off'. The amount of time you wrote to me off list bad mouthing a
certain person on the list and advising me not to reply to him speaks
volumes.

Jim

On 1 Mar, 18:45, Kenneth > wrote:...
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Her reputation speaks for itself, ...
> Beyond that, I have no idea what set you off, but your
> hostility is a far greater burden to you than it is to me.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
> .