Hummmm....
I made a 2cup wheat, 2cup water, 1 pkg yeast, whole wheat starter and
left it out on counter for 12 hours and then stored in refrig
overnight, and then let it return to room temp next
morning....everything went fine, even though my average room temp was
60F. I even let each of the three rises take about 2 hours a piece,
was experimenting with cool room temperatures, and I like to keep my
mixture 'slack', less flour and more rising is my theory on that.
Now, the problem I'm having, is I'm still getting 'wet spots' in my
loaves. I suspect I'm not baking long enough, but with wheat bread I
usually bake it about 40 minutes with an internal temp of 190F.
The loaves turned out great, I added onion an sesame seeds to it,
'just 'em dang wet spots' are really annoying.

"RedMelon" > wrote in message
...

> I made a 2cup wheat, 2cup water, 1 pkg yeast, whole wheat starter

Since this has yeast it is not a sourdough and really off-topic for this
newsgroup.

This would probably be more appropriate in alt.bread.recipes

> was experimenting with cool room temperatures, and I like to keep my
> mixture 'slack', less flour and more rising is my theory on that.

Theory on what? Dough slackness and relationship to rising time?

> Now, the problem I'm having, is I'm still getting 'wet spots' in my
> loaves. I suspect I'm not baking long enough, but with wheat bread I
> usually bake it about 40 minutes with an internal temp of 190F.
> The loaves turned out great, I added onion an sesame seeds to it,
> 'just 'em dang wet spots' are really annoying.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "wet spots". Do you mean raw dough or
just very moist crumb? Had the bread cooled to room temperature before you
are slicing it? I've never experienced anything I would describe as "wet
spots" in bread I've made.

-Mike

RedMelon wrote:
> Now, the problem I'm having, is I'm still getting 'wet spots' in my
> loaves. I suspect I'm not baking long enough, but with wheat bread I
> usually bake it about 40 minutes with an internal temp of 190F.
> The loaves turned out great, I added onion an sesame seeds to it,
> 'just 'em dang wet spots' are really annoying.

My wife and I have been baking for a few months (bread flour mixes with
the yeast in the recipes replaced with our own sourdough starter), and
just this weekend tried our first bread made from scratch (no
ready-bought flour mix, mixing the flour ourselves instead), and we
encountered something similar to your "wet spots".

We made a 1.5 kg loaf (we usually do two 750 g loaves instead) of a
relatively slack dough with about 60% finely ground whole grain rye,
20% coarsely ground whole grain rye, and 20% whole grain wheat, baked
with convection, using a crock-pot pan, for 5 minutes at 240°C, and a
further 55 minutes at 190°C (which is 10-15 minutes more than our
small loaves usually get). The crust was great, even the parts in the
pan, but in the corners just under the crust, there were spots of very
wet crumb/almost raw dough, when the rest of the crumb was rather
uniformly, pleasently moist if quite a bit denser than usual.

Now, what irritates me is that the wet spots were not in the center of
the bread, which I could have attributed to not baking long enough, but
right below the crust in the "furthest corners" of the loaf, with ready
access to lots of heat all around them.

Any ideas?
--
Gudy

"Gudy" > wrote in message=20
...

> ... baked with convection, using a crock-pot pan ...
>
> ... in the corners just under the crust, there were spots of very
> wet crumb/almost raw dough ... not in the center of the bread,=20
> which I could have attributed to not baking long enough, but
> right below the crust in the "furthest corners" of the loaf, with=20
> ready access to lots of heat all around them. Any ideas?

Maybe this: Water vapor moves through the loaf as it warms.
The surface which heats fastest congeals first. Water vapor
can not escape through the pan, therefore goes to the top. =20
Something about your pan and convection caused the center
of the top surface to congeal before the corners. So the=20
corners remained wet due to continuing migration of water=20
vapor from all other parts of the loaf.

With one or two more assumptions, flying crust, falling centers,=20
etc.can be explained also with such a model.

> ... crock-pot pan ...

That confused me. Mine is cylindrical. Have you got a rectangular
convection crock pot? Or what? I don't think we have those
here (U.S.).

> ... about 60% finely ground whole grain rye, 20% coarsely=20
> ground whole grain rye, and 20% whole grain wheat ...

Lots of stuff in your flour! Things are easier to understand with
simple ingredients. Rye doughs do not have the same dynamics
as wheat doughs. Whole-grain flours are relatively difficult to=20
work with. For us, anyway. Maybe not for the *.de people.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

Dick Adams wrote:
>
> "Gudy" > wrote in message
> ...

> > ... crock-pot pan ...
>
> That confused me. Mine is cylindrical. Have you got a rectangular
> convection crock pot? Or what? I don't think we have those
> here (U.S.).

If it's what I think it is, yeah, we do. They're like table/countertop
"roasters."

I can't see pictures due to my popup blocker but look he
http://www.nesco.com/ and Products on the left frame.

B/

"Edgar Warnecke" > wrote in message =
...

> Einfach ist genial

I knew that!

---
DickA

Dick Adams wrote:
> Maybe this: Water vapor moves through the loaf as it warms.
> The surface which heats fastest congeals first. Water vapor
> can not escape through the pan, therefore goes to the top.
> Something about your pan and convection caused the center
> of the top surface to congeal before the corners. So the
> corners remained wet due to continuing migration of water
> vapor from all other parts of the loaf.

In other words, I may need to let the steam (and bread fairies? ;-) out.
Which would mean either slashing the loaf, or as Edgar suggests below
(thanks for the tip!), to take the business end of a fork to the top of
the loaf. I'll try either of those next, then.

>>... crock-pot pan ...
>
> That confused me. Mine is cylindrical. Have you got a rectangular
> convection crock pot? Or what? I don't think we have those
> here (U.S.).

Hmm, I see I didn't word that at its clearest. We use a normal
electrical kitchen oven which can also do convection. And we use this:

http://www.roemertopf.de/roemertopf_klassik/pane.htm
http://www.roemertopf.de/roemertopf_klassik/swing.htm

as bread pans. Two of the former for our 750g loaves, one of the latter
for the 1.5 kg loaf.

>>... about 60% finely ground whole grain rye, 20% coarsely
>>ground whole grain rye, and 20% whole grain wheat ...
>
> Lots of stuff in your flour! Things are easier to understand with
> simple ingredients. Rye doughs do not have the same dynamics
> as wheat doughs. Whole-grain flours are relatively difficult to
> work with. For us, anyway. Maybe not for the *.de people.

We may try a pure rye bread next, to simplify things a bit. To be sure,
whole grain flours *are* tricky beasts also for .de-ians... But since
we're not interested in eating, and hence baking, any bread other than
whole-grain (predominantly rye, we'll likely only try wheat when we've
got the hang of baking rye bread, which is the reverse of what most of
you .us-ians do, right?), we figured we'd restrict our activities to
those.

So far, we've only produced one door stop (the result of a sponge *way*
beyond its peak, made worse by a final dough that was too stiff), and
my wife has displayed an uncanny knack for taking my translations of the
distilled wisdom of r.f.s and turning them into tasty bread, so we're
optimistic despite all the complexities.

Thanks again for the ideas,
--
Gudy


PS: Depending on the willingness of our digicam to cooperate, I'll try
to post a picture of the loaf in question soon.

"Gudy" > wrote in message=20
...

> > [ ... ]

> In other words, I may need to let the steam (and bread fairies? ;-) =
out.
> Which would mean either slashing the loaf, or as Edgar suggests below
> (thanks for the tip!), to take the business end of a fork to the top =
of
> the loaf. I'll try either of those next, then.

I think that slashing has the purpose of telling the loaf where to =
expand its
surface as it inflates. A happy loaf abaking would not be losing gas or =

water vapor, but would have essentially impermeable surfaces. With
no place to go, the gases stay in place and expand the cells uniformly
throughout the loaf.

But, give the gases an exit route and they will, while the crumb remains
uncongealed, migrate towards it. The water-vapor component wets the
dough in the migration path. An effect of that, not mentioned by you, =
is
that the hydration of that dough is raised, and the crumb in those =
regions
gets the texture properties of wetter dough. (Probably does not change
much in rye dough except to confer some sogginess.)

So goes my theory these days. It could change anytime. Here is an=20
example from my new bread machine. Apparently, in this one, the top=20
surface is the last to cook. It rose, then popped and fell during the =
bake. =20
But see the large cells under the center. What story do they tell?

http://prettycolors.com/bread_culture/WWslice2.jpg

> .. we're not interested in eating, and hence baking, any bread=20
> other than whole-grain (predominantly rye, ...

How about veggies? Are you still eating a lot of cabbage over there?

> we're optimistic despite all the complexities ...

Optimism is good!

> I'll try to post a picture ...

Pictures are good!

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

Gudy wrote:
> Depending on the willingness of our digicam to cooperate, I'll try
> to post a picture of the loaf in question soon.

Well, the digicam was unwilling and uncooperative (but got beaten into
submission nonetheless), and the picture sure is more blurred and fuzzy
than I would like, but it can be found he

http://gudy.gmxhome.de/bread.jpg
--
Gudy