Hey all,

I was reading from a site (progressivebaker.com) that compared the
effects of kneading to crumb profile. The site suggested that the
more vigorous the knead, the less open crumb structure you get. The
site went on to try three different kneads of various intensity and
showed pictures of how the crumb profile is affected. All three
dough's were machine knead, but for different periods of time and
different intensity.

I wonder if this can be said with hand kneading as well. I have read
that some artisan bakers add water, form the dough into a ball and
rest for five (or more) minutes, knead for a few minutes and then let
the gluten development happen while fermenting. With sourdough, this
seems to fit right in since sourdough fermentations are usually longer
in length than yeasted dough.

I have tried following the above method except when I knead it's for a
while until the window-pane test passes. I think I will try the other
approach. I wrote this post to ask what others more experienced than
I think of this.

Trying to make sense of this, I'd guess the following happens - When
kneading intensively, a lot of the gluten structure is formed and we
have a 'rigid and tight' grid for the CO2 to be in. Thus, we have a
tighter crumb structure. When kneading lightly, the gluten grid isn't
as tight or rigid. So, it's easier to get an open crumb.

I hope I haven't embarrassed myself with such simple theory on what
happens. I look forward to your comments.

Thanks,

Anvah

"Anvah Gareson" > wrote in message =
om...

> I was reading from a site (progressivebaker.com) that compared the
> effects of kneading to crumb profile. The site suggested that the
> more vigorous the knead, the less open crumb structure you get. The
> site went on to try three different kneads of various intensity and
> showed pictures of how the crumb profile is affected. All three
> dough's were machine knead, but for different periods of time and
> different intensity.

Even with a www. prefixed, could not find those pictures. Can you=20
be more specific with that reference?

Seems like an easy experiment to do with regular dough and a bread
machine..

I recall that some one wrote that Ed Wood had said that a bread
machine is hard to beat, but I don't remember exactly for what
property of dough/bread. I think it was for holeyness, and that=20
it was said by him in his newsletter, which few of us get.

> ... I knead it's for a while until the window-pane test passes.

Congratulations on passing the window-pane test. That puts you
at the top of the class if it's for sourdough. (Around here, the only=20
things that pass the window-pane test are windows (occasionally).)

---
DickA

What is the window pane test?

I have seen it written a few times and was just wondering what it purpose was.

Thanks

Julie

Hey,

Take a look he

http://www.progressivebaker.com/class/outline.htm

Anvah

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message >...
> "Anvah Gareson" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> > I was reading from a site (progressivebaker.com) that compared the
> > effects of kneading to crumb profile. The site suggested that the
> > more vigorous the knead, the less open crumb structure you get. The
> > site went on to try three different kneads of various intensity and
> > showed pictures of how the crumb profile is affected. All three
> > dough's were machine knead, but for different periods of time and
> > different intensity.
>
> Even with a www. prefixed, could not find those pictures. Can you
> be more specific with that reference?
>
> Seems like an easy experiment to do with regular dough and a bread
> machine..
>
> I recall that some one wrote that Ed Wood had said that a bread
> machine is hard to beat, but I don't remember exactly for what
> property of dough/bread. I think it was for holeyness, and that
> it was said by him in his newsletter, which few of us get.
>
> > ... I knead it's for a while until the window-pane test passes.
>
> Congratulations on passing the window-pane test. That puts you
> at the top of the class if it's for sourdough. (Around here, the only
> things that pass the window-pane test are windows (occasionally).)
>
> ---
> DickA