I am about to try my first time at canning anything.
I have an American 910 (4 quart jar, 7 pint) pressure canner and
a Water Bath canner and the ball complete canning book.
Also a roma basic food strainer.

I have about 15 pounds of Roma's and 10 pounds of beefsteaks.
All tomatoes are rather "firm red" tomatoes off the vine yesterday from
my back yard. I am going to try tomato sauce and maybe tomato juice. I
hope for at least 4 pints of each.

??????
How ripe is ripe for canning tomatoes?
Can I take them directly from the plant to pot for canning?
Do I have to wait until it is mushy?
If the tomato is red on the vine, is ripe enough to can?
If not, what is ripe for canning?
?????

I will try the pressure canner first for sauce.
If I get another batch of tomatoes, then I will try the Water Bath.
I will see which is better.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:36:13 -0400, "Dan L."
> wrote:

>I am about to try my first time at canning anything.
>I have an American 910 (4 quart jar, 7 pint) pressure canner and
>a Water Bath canner and the ball complete canning book.
>Also a roma basic food strainer.
>
>I have about 15 pounds of Roma's and 10 pounds of beefsteaks.
>All tomatoes are rather "firm red" tomatoes off the vine yesterday from
>my back yard. I am going to try tomato sauce and maybe tomato juice. I
>hope for at least 4 pints of each.
>
>??????
>How ripe is ripe for canning tomatoes?
>Can I take them directly from the plant to pot for canning?
>Do I have to wait until it is mushy?
>If the tomato is red on the vine, is ripe enough to can?
>If not, what is ripe for canning?
>?????
>
>I will try the pressure canner first for sauce.
>If I get another batch of tomatoes, then I will try the Water Bath.
>I will see which is better.
>
>Enjoy Life ... Dan

Check out http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can3_tomato.html
for a complete guide to canning tomatoes.

Ross.

Definitely read the Ball section on tomatoes; since they're acidic, you only need the waterbath canner (pressure canner is necessary for non-acidic foods). As for ripe, well--as ripe as you'd want them to be to eat them! If they're actually squashy to the point that you wouldn't want to eat them, they're too far gone. If they're not red enough to eat, then wait a bit to can them. The romas, by the by, will probably be the best overall--they're paste tomatoes, which are generally best for sauce and for canning. I've never tried beefsteak varieties for canning, though, so who knows . . . they might actually work!

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:36:13 -0400, "Dan L."
> wrote:

>I am about to try my first time at canning anything.
>I have an American 910 (4 quart jar, 7 pint) pressure canner and
>a Water Bath canner and the ball complete canning book.
>Also a roma basic food strainer.
>
>I have about 15 pounds of Roma's and 10 pounds of beefsteaks.
>All tomatoes are rather "firm red" tomatoes off the vine yesterday from
>my back yard. I am going to try tomato sauce and maybe tomato juice. I
>hope for at least 4 pints of each.
>
>??????
>How ripe is ripe for canning tomatoes?
>Can I take them directly from the plant to pot for canning?

If you are going to do sauce, you will need to strain them and then
cook them down (boil at least half the water out). Then you can put
it jars and can them. Some people recommend par-cooking before
straining so they're softer going through the strainer.

15 pounds of Romas will probably yield 6-7 pints of sauce, unless you
boil it down really thick.

I haven't made juice, but you'll have to extract the juice before
canning - you can't just toss the tomatoes in the jars. Haven't a
clue if you can extract juice easily from strained tomatoes.

>Do I have to wait until it is mushy?

_What_ is mushy? The tomato - no.

>If the tomato is red on the vine, is ripe enough to can?

That's plenty ripe

>If not, what is ripe for canning?
>?????
>
>I will try the pressure canner first for sauce.
>If I get another batch of tomatoes, then I will try the Water Bath.
>I will see which is better.

From experience canning half and whole tomatoes, not sauce or juice -
the pressure canner needs less processing time of course, but when you
add in the time required to bring it up to pressure and then cool down
to the point of unlocking there's not a lot of diference in time
required.

I use my pressure canner because it holds twice as many pints (14) as
my BWB canner. I can process twice as many pints in the same time.

Qualtiy-wise and safety-wise, I haven't seen any difference.

Follow the Ball or UGa instructions carefully.
>
>Enjoy Life ... Dan

Enjoy canning!

In article >,
Podling > wrote:

> Dan L.;1369467 Wrote:
> >
> > How ripe is ripe for canning tomatoes?
> > Can I take them directly from the plant to pot for canning?
> > Do I have to wait until it is mushy?
> > If the tomato is red on the vine, is ripe enough to can?
> > If not, what is ripe for canning?
> > ?????
> >
> > I will try the pressure canner first for sauce.
> > If I get another batch of tomatoes, then I will try the Water Bath.
> > I will see which is better.
> >
> > Enjoy Life ... Dan
> >
>
> Definitely read the Ball section on tomatoes; since they're acidic, you
> only need the waterbath canner (pressure canner is necessary for
> non-acidic foods). As for ripe, well--as ripe as you'd want them to be
> to eat them! If they're actually squashy to the point that you wouldn't
> want to eat them, they're too far gone. If they're not red enough to
> eat, then wait a bit to can them. The romas, by the by, will probably
> be the best overall--they're paste tomatoes, which are generally best
> for sauce and for canning. I've never tried beefsteak varieties for
> canning, though, so who knows . . . they might actually work!

After the first news posting of that nice web site on canning tomatoes.
The first paragraph answered my question "Firm Tomatoes". Then I started
to can.

I pressured canned 5 pints and had a little extra. The extra tasted very
good. It went well. I will truly know how well it worked until I open a
cooled down jar. I am amazed how the Roma strainer worked - all that
juice from romas tomatoes. Most of my time spent was boiling them down.

It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!

The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.

Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
Thanks for the responses.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
>I am about to try my first time at canning anything.
> I have an American 910 (4 quart jar, 7 pint) pressure canner and
> a Water Bath canner and the ball complete canning book.
> Also a roma basic food strainer.
>
> I have about 15 pounds of Roma's and 10 pounds of beefsteaks.
> All tomatoes are rather "firm red" tomatoes off the vine yesterday from
> my back yard. I am going to try tomato sauce and maybe tomato juice. I
> hope for at least 4 pints of each.
>
> ??????
> How ripe is ripe for canning tomatoes?

I like mine fully ripe, as one would eat them in a salad or on a sandwich.

> Can I take them directly from the plant to pot for canning?
> Do I have to wait until it is mushy?

No, just wash any dust or bird droppings off of them.

> If the tomato is red on the vine, is ripe enough to can?
> If not, what is ripe for canning?
> ?????
>
> I will try the pressure canner first for sauce.
> If I get another batch of tomatoes, then I will try the Water Bath.
> I will see which is better.

I use the pressure canner because it makes less heat and cans them faster.

>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan
>
> --
> Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
>
> After the first news posting of that nice web site on canning tomatoes.
> The first paragraph answered my question "Firm Tomatoes". Then I started
> to can.
>
> I pressured canned 5 pints and had a little extra. The extra tasted very
> good. It went well. I will truly know how well it worked until I open a
> cooled down jar. I am amazed how the Roma strainer worked - all that
> juice from romas tomatoes. Most of my time spent was boiling them down.

You can save some boiling-down time by cutting the tomatoes in half and
using a small spoon to spoon out the watery jelly-like part with the seeds.

>
> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!

It takes awhile to get your money back on the canner and jars. ;-)

>
> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.

It's a lot of work, plus the clean-up afterward. We have one more load to
toms to turn into sauce and the canning season is over for us. I have
shelves full of tomatoes sauce in several sizes, many jars of canned
cinnamon pears, and dozens of jars of string beans. The beet crop failed
this year.

>
> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
> Thanks for the responses.

That's the spirit. :-)

>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan
>
> --
> Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> wrote:

:
:> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
:> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
:> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
:>
:> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
:> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
:> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
:>
:> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
:> Thanks for the responses.
:>
:> Enjoy Life ... Dan
:>
:It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
:Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
:heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
:food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
:your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
:
:Cyndi

I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
canning jars. Price: FREE!

Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.

I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
(bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

Dan Musicant wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> > wrote:
>
> :
> :> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
> :> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
> :> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
> :>
> :> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
> :> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
> :> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
> :>
> :> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
> :> Thanks for the responses.
> :>
> :> Enjoy Life ... Dan
> :>
> :It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
> :Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
> :heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
> :food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
> :your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
> :
> :Cyndi
>
> I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
> just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
> sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
> canning jars. Price: FREE!

Many of the folk here get canning jars wherever they can due to cost
Dan. Just any old jar won't cut it with most of us though, as in mayo jars.
>
> Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
>
> I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
> that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
> bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
> boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
> (bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
> such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
> kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
> with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
> its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
> upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
> long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
> products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
>
> Dan

Many, if not all of the canners that visit this newsgroup only use USDA
approved canning methods. Your method is not one of them and leaves your
canned goods open to many unsavory problems including spoilage. I would
suggest you visit http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ and see the latest
recommendations.
>
>
> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:27:16 -0700, Dan Musicant >
wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> wrote:
>
>:
>:> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
>:> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
>:> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
>:>
>:> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
>:> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
>:> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
>:>
>:> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
>:> Thanks for the responses.
>:>
>:> Enjoy Life ... Dan
>:>
>:It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
>:Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
>:heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
>:food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
>:your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
>:
>:Cyndi
>
>I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
>just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
>sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
>canning jars. Price: FREE!
>
>Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
>
>I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
>that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
>bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
>boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
>(bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
>such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
>kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
>with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
>its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
>upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
>long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
>products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
>
>Dan
>
>
>Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

Dan,

You may want to take a long hard look at http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
And then ask yourself this question, 'After a respected university
does years of research to provide the general public with the latest
recommendations for safe home food preservation, why do I continue to
use procedures long since proven to be less than safe?'

Ross.

I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
kill their families. No doubt the current recommendations are safer
and reduce the chances of spoilage. Certainly, commercial producers
should use the safest methods. For myself, all I have made is jam and
fruit juice that I consume within a short period of time --
method :hot pack in sterile jars. I'm considering apple sauce and
will probably use the two piece lids and a water bath -- current
recommended.method.

In article >,
Dan Musicant > wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> > wrote:
>
> :
> :> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
> :> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
> :> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
> :>
> :> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
> :> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
> :> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
> :>
> :> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
> :> Thanks for the responses.
> :>
> :> Enjoy Life ... Dan
> :>
> :It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
> :Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
> :heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
> :food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
> :your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
> :
> :Cyndi
>
> I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
> just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
> sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
> canning jars. Price: FREE!
>
> Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
>
> I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
> that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
> bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
> boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
> (bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
> such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
> kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
> with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
> its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
> upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
> long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
> products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

I am mindful of the words of Myra Arrendale, owner of (seems to now be
defunct) Home Canning Supply Specialties in San Ramon, California:
"Our grandmothers and great-grandmothers preserved foods using the
most current methods and equipment available to them at the time. We
should do no less." Times change. Recommended methods have changed.

I can't find the post from the woman who posted here (a few years ago)
about losing a couple batches of strawberry jam on which she used the
inversion method of sealing. They got moldy. When I put effort into
preparing a delicious product, I'm not inclined to a shortcut that may
jeopardize the quality of my work.

Do you sterilize your jars before you fill them, Dan? If so, you've
already got a kettle of boiling water going; why not take the extra 10
minutes to waterbath your sweet spreads?

Open kettle canning has been disavowed for many years by reputable
organizations doing food safety and food preservation research. Doing
it correctly doesn't take a whole lot more effort.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

ljp other wrote:
> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
> kill their families.

I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
away properly, as I'd been advised....

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
> ljp other wrote:
>> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
>> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
>> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
>> kill their families.
>
> I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
> box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
> away properly, as I'd been advised....
>
> B/


Ouch! Sounds like something I would do. I hope you weren't
too badly hurt.

OB preserving: Melba's Fair success made me want to make some
bread and butter pickles again (aka Crispy Cukes.) Our garden is pretty
much of a failure this year and I didn't make it to the farmer's market
so when I saw pickling cukes at ALbertson's (unpriced) I asked the
produce guy how much they were selling for. Pickling cukes about 4-5
inches long, 5/$1. Yikes. I'll price them at Nick's this week when we
go back for our second batch of Hatch chiles to freeze.

gloria p

ljp other wrote:
> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
> kill their families. No doubt the current recommendations are safer
> and reduce the chances of spoilage. Certainly, commercial producers
> should use the safest methods. For myself, all I have made is jam and
> fruit juice that I consume within a short period of time --
> method :hot pack in sterile jars. I'm considering apple sauce and
> will probably use the two piece lids and a water bath -- current
> recommended.method.


Applesauce freezes quite well and the flavor is terrific, very fresh.

gloria p

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:39:19 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

an Musicant wrote:
:> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
:> > wrote:
:>
:> :
:> :> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
:> :> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
:> :> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
:> :>
:> :> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
:> :> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
:> :> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
:> :>
:> :> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
:> :> Thanks for the responses.
:> :>
:> :> Enjoy Life ... Dan
:> :>
:> :It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
:> :Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
:> :heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
:> :food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
:> :your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
:> :
:> :Cyndi
:>
:> I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
:> just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
:> sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
:> canning jars. Price: FREE!
:
:Many of the folk here get canning jars wherever they can due to cost
an. Just any old jar won't cut it with most of us though, as in mayo jars.

I don't use mayo jars any more. Lots of other types available, but truly
I have a mind to use only canning jars from here on, or soon anyway. My
problems are with the lids sometimes.

:>
:> Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
:>
:> I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
:> that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
:> bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
:> boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
:> (bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
:> such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
:> kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
:> with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
:> its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
:> upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
:> long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
:> products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
:>
:> Dan
:
:Many, if not all of the canners that visit this newsgroup only use USDA
:approved canning methods. Your method is not one of them and leaves your
:canned goods open to many unsavory problems including spoilage. I would
:suggest you visit http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ and see the latest
:recommendations.

I realize that I'm not according to Hoyle, but I've not had any issues
since I started adding citric acid (1/2 t to a quart) several years ago.
In any case, I've never experienced any kind of sickness, upset stomach,
anything after eating my canned tomatoes, not received complaints from
the people I've given them to.


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:17:12 -0400, wrote:

:On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:27:16 -0700, Dan Musicant >
:wrote:
:
:>On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> wrote:
:>
:>:
:>:> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
:>:> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
:>:> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
:>:>
:>:> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
:>:> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
:>:> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
:>:>
:>:> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
:>:> Thanks for the responses.
:>:>
:>:> Enjoy Life ... Dan
:>:>
:>:It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
:>:Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
:>:heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
:>:food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
:>:your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
:>:
:>:Cyndi
:>
:>I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
:>just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
:>sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
:>canning jars. Price: FREE!
:>
:>Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
:>
:>I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
:>that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
:>bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
:>boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
:>(bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
:>such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
:>kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
:>with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
:>its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
:>upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
:>long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
:>products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
:>
:>Dan
:>
:>
:>Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
:
an,
:
:You may want to take a long hard look at http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
:And then ask yourself this question, 'After a respected university
:does years of research to provide the general public with the latest
:recommendations for safe home food preservation, why do I continue to
:use procedures long since proven to be less than safe?'
:
:Ross.

They say the proof is in the pudding and my pudding seems fine. What can
I say?


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT), ljp other
> wrote:

:I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
:responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
:reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
:kill their families. No doubt the current recommendations are safer
:and reduce the chances of spoilage. Certainly, commercial producers
:should use the safest methods. For myself, all I have made is jam and
:fruit juice that I consume within a short period of time --
:method :hot pack in sterile jars. I'm considering apple sauce and
:will probably use the two piece lids and a water bath -- current
:recommended.method.

I always immerse my jars and lids in a boiling water/steam bath, in
addition to the afformentioned methods.


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
wrote:

:ljp other wrote:
:> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
:> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
:> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
:> kill their families.
:
:I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
:box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
:away properly, as I'd been advised....
:
:B/

I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:11:28 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

:In article >,
: Dan Musicant > wrote:
:
:> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
:> > wrote:
:>
:> :
:> :> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
:> :> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
:> :> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
:> :>
:> :> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
:> :> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
:> :> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
:> :>
:> :> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
:> :> Thanks for the responses.
:> :>
:> :> Enjoy Life ... Dan
:> :>
:> :It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
:> :Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
:> :heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
:> :food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
:> :your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
:> :
:> :Cyndi
:>
:> I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
:> just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
:> sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
:> canning jars. Price: FREE!
:>
:> Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
:>
:> I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
:> that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
:> bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
:> boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
:> (bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
:> such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
:> kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
:> with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
:> its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
:> upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
:> long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
:> products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
:>
:> Dan
:>
:>
:> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
:
:I am mindful of the words of Myra Arrendale, owner of (seems to now be
:defunct) Home Canning Supply Specialties in San Ramon, California:
:"Our grandmothers and great-grandmothers preserved foods using the
:most current methods and equipment available to them at the time. We
:should do no less." Times change. Recommended methods have changed.
:
:I can't find the post from the woman who posted here (a few years ago)
:about losing a couple batches of strawberry jam on which she used the
:inversion method of sealing. They got moldy. When I put effort into
reparing a delicious product, I'm not inclined to a shortcut that may
:jeopardize the quality of my work.
:
o you sterilize your jars before you fill them, Dan? If so, you've
:already got a kettle of boiling water going; why not take the extra 10
:minutes to waterbath your sweet spreads?
:
:Open kettle canning has been disavowed for many years by reputable
rganizations doing food safety and food preservation research. Doing
:it correctly doesn't take a whole lot more effort.

Yes, I boil my jars and lids. I've lost a few jars of jam to mold, very
rarely, and it's been a very long time since this happened. Never ever
had a problem with my plum jam, though. Did a time or two with wild
blackberries. The plum jam (from my plum trees), is so unpalatable to
organisms that after opening the jars I just leave them on the counter.
In the refrigerator the jam gets strange and granular, the sugar
crystalizes I guess. On the counter the jam stays perfect seemingly
indefinitely. Funguses seem to have zero interest.

My tomato sauces used to go bad fairly quickly once opened and
refrigerated until I started adding citric acid at canning time. The
extra insurance against botulism was my motivation but I am delighted
that the sauces keep in the refrigerator 10 times as long.

Dan

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:21:43 -0700, Dan Musicant >
wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:17:12 -0400, wrote:
>
>:On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:27:16 -0700, Dan Musicant >
>:wrote:
>:
>:>On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:57 -0700 (PDT), desertgardener
> wrote:
>:>
>:>:
>:>:> It took four hours from setup to cleanup. Five pints of sauce. So far, I
>:>:> estimate after the cost of the canning equipment, not including labor,
>:>:> the 5 pints cost about $60 per jar On the road to self sufficiency!
>:>:>
>:>:> The only drawback to this canning thing is - I have spent allot of money
>:>:> and I have a sore back from standing over a hot stove and kitchen sink
>:>:> for several hours. I feel real old right now. Time for sleep.
>:>:>
>:>:> Was it worth - absolutely! Next time Juice Next year - a bigger garden!
>:>:> Thanks for the responses.
>:>:>
>:>:> Enjoy Life ... Dan
>:>:>
>:>:It's like those credit card commercials. Pressure Canner, $100.
>:>:Canning Jars, $7.50. Air conditioning to cool the house after you've
>:>:heated it up canning 10 pints of tomato sauce, $30. Knowing where your
>:>:food came from? Eating a dinner where all the ingredients came from
>:>:your own effort? Absolutely priceless.
>:>:
>:>:Cyndi
>:>
>:>I bought canning jars many years ago, still have them, but usually I
>:>just use discarded jars, either my own or ones others have left on the
>:>sidewalk for pickup and recycling. I wash them and they make great
>:>canning jars. Price: FREE!
>:>
>:>Air conditioning? Nah. Really not much of a problem here.
>:>
>:>I have a pressure canner, have very rarely used it. Why I got it, well
>:>that's another story. When I can tomatoes I don't bother with it, nor a
>:>bath for the jars. I do the same thing I do with my jams -- I ladle
>:>boiling hot product into jars covered with my trusty canning funnel
>:>(bought for $0.50 at a 2nd hand store, why on earth don't they makie
>:>such things for the masses boggles my mind, it's one of the most useful
>:>kitchen tools I have!!!). After securing the lid on each jar, I grab it
>:>with a gloved hand, turn it over, jiggle for a few seconds and set it on
>:>its head and leave it there until the next jar is ready, then turn it
>:>upright. That gets the top area hot enough where all fungus spores are
>:>long dead. Bacteria don't even think about living in my canned tomato
>:>products. I do add citric acid just to make sure. Happy canning.
>:>
>:>Dan
>:>
>:>
>:>Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
>:
>an,
>:
>:You may want to take a long hard look at http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
>:And then ask yourself this question, 'After a respected university
>:does years of research to provide the general public with the latest
>:recommendations for safe home food preservation, why do I continue to
>:use procedures long since proven to be less than safe?'
>:
>:Ross.
>
>They say the proof is in the pudding and my pudding seems fine. What can
>I say?


Actually, the correct wording of the old saying goes 'The proof of
the pudding is in the eating'. And, it's in the eating of your
"pudding" where I'd have some reservations.

Ross.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:46:50 -0400, wrote:

:Actually, the correct wording of the old saying goes 'The proof of
:the pudding is in the eating'. And, it's in the eating of your
:"pudding" where I'd have some reservations.
:
:Ross.

Tastes good to me. I just canned almost 3 gallons of tomato/vegetable
stew. Ate 1/2 a quart. Delicious.

Dan

PS Why is your wording "correct?" I have only heard it the other way.



Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:08:23 -0700, Dan Musicant >
wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:46:50 -0400, wrote:
>
>:Actually, the correct wording of the old saying goes 'The proof of
>:the pudding is in the eating'. And, it's in the eating of your
>:"pudding" where I'd have some reservations.
>:
>:Ross.
>
>Tastes good to me. I just canned almost 3 gallons of tomato/vegetable
>stew. Ate 1/2 a quart. Delicious.
>

You canned a mixture of tomatoes and other vegetables by putting it
hot into jars and inverting them? That's it?
I have no doubt that right at the time you prepared it, it was
delicious. But, canned using your method, it has the potential for
serious problems at some point in the future.
You really should spend some time reading the pertinent information at
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp

>PS Why is your wording "correct?" I have only heard it the other way.

http://www.whatdoesthatmean.com/proof-pudding

Ross

In article >,
Dan Musicant > wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:46:50 -0400, wrote:
>
> :Actually, the correct wording of the old saying goes 'The proof of
> :the pudding is in the eating'. And, it's in the eating of your
> :"pudding" where I'd have some reservations.
> :
> :Ross.
>
> Tastes good to me. I just canned almost 3 gallons of tomato/vegetable
> stew. Ate 1/2 a quart. Delicious.
>
> Dan
>
> PS Why is your wording "correct?" I have only heard it the other way.

> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

The original phrase is, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
Laziness on the part of some have cropped it to "The proof is in the
pudding." The former makes more sense, I think. (The proof of *what"
is in the pudding?)

What's in your tomato-vegetable stew and how did you process it?
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
Dan Musicant > wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
> wrote:
>
> :ljp other wrote:
> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
> :> kill their families.
> :
> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
> :
> :B/
>
> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
>
> Dan

If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could learn
from others.

A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by the
U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
(the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
when the U was doing such research) said about options and the choices
we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative approach
designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance for
those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.

You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage a
more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here after
deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that they
want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer information
we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic and,
as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
declared unsafe by those researchers.

If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves just
aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method of
sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but the
equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved processes.
Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in your
resources and some good judgment.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
Having too much fun for a woman my age:
http://www.kare11.com/news/newsatfou...px?storyid=823
232&catid=323

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> Dan Musicant > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
>> wrote:
>>
>> :ljp other wrote:
>> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
>> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
>> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
>> :> kill their families.
>> :
>> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
>> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
>> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
>> :
>> :B/
>>
>> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
>> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
>>
>> Dan
>
> If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could learn
> from others.
>
> A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by the
> U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
> (the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
> when the U was doing such research) said about options and the choices
> we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
> methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
> choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
> storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative approach
> designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
> maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance for
> those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
> health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.
>
> You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
> regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage a
> more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here after
> deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that they
> want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
> ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
> long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
> safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer information
> we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic and,
> as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
> declared unsafe by those researchers.
>
> If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
> processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
> because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves just
> aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method of
> sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but the
> equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
> are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved processes.
> Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in your
> resources and some good judgment.
>
Well said Barb. I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.
Regardless of whether he is or not, I tend to not pay any attention to
his posts if he insists on taking the path to home preserving that he is
following. The only response of mine he will see is the one that tells
newbies to disregard his advice and go to the UGA site for advice.

Gloria P wrote:
> Brian Mailman wrote:
>> ljp other wrote:
>>> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
>>> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
>>> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
>>> kill their families.
>>
>> I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
>> box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
>> away properly, as I'd been advised....
>>
> Ouch! Sounds like something I would do. I hope you weren't
> too badly hurt.

No, there's a landing/twisty place about 5 steps down, I didn't go all
the way 3 floors. Just damage to my dignity with the cat staring at me
and everything.

Dan Musicant wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:39:19 -0500, George Shirley
> > wrote:

> :Many, if not all of the canners that visit this newsgroup only use USDA
> :approved canning methods. Your method is not one of them and leaves your
> :canned goods open to many unsavory problems including spoilage. I would
> :suggest you visit http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ and see the latest
> :recommendations.
>
> I realize that I'm not according to Hoyle, but I've not had any issues
> since I started adding citric acid (1/2 t to a quart) several years ago.
> In any case, I've never experienced any kind of sickness, upset stomach,
> anything after eating my canned tomatoes, not received complaints from
> the people I've given them to.

Statistics are not based on the outcomes to an individual, only to groups.

Because there's a 1 in 100 chance of something does not mean: you can do
it 99 times and then stop. It also means if you're the "1" that your
chances just increased to 100%.

B/

Dan Musicant wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
> wrote:
>
> :ljp other wrote:
> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
> :> kill their families.
> :
> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
> :
> :B/
>
> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.

When you have "Walden Pond II: I Did It My Way" published, you might
have some credibility.

I'll even buy a copy, and send the proceeds to your next of kin, if
they've survived your experiments.

B/

George Shirley wrote:

> Well said Barb.

Very. I was one of the ones that used a paraffin seal on my
jams/preserves because that's what my grandmother had taught me. I'd
read for years here not to do it, but of course, I knew better. I knew
the product was over 212F when it went into the sterilized jars, I knew
it had a high sugar content as well as a good slog of ethanol so
wouldn't spoil. I knew botulism wasn't a problem because of the high
acid content. I knew better than anyone, because I knew I was careful
and paid attention. Those BWB instructions were for those without
attention to detail.

Then came the year I lost almost every jar of strawberry preserves and
blackberry jam to mold, as well as the Gravenstein apple-almond butter
because the seals hadn't held. All that work. All the expense. All
the time... gone.

I don't use paraffin seals any more.

> I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.

I don't think so at this point. I just think he knows better and he's
too full of his... knowledge ... to take any more in.

B/

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Dan Musicant > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> :ljp other wrote:
> >> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> >> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> >> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
> >> :> kill their families.
> >> :
> >> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
> >> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
> >> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
> >> :
> >> :B/
> >>
> >> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
> >> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >
> > If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could learn
> > from others.
> >
> > A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by the
> > U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
> > (the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
> > when the U was doing such research) said about options and the choices
> > we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
> > methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
> > choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
> > storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative approach
> > designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
> > maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance for
> > those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
> > health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.
> >
> > You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
> > regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage a
> > more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here after
> > deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that they
> > want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
> > ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
> > long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
> > safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer information
> > we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic and,
> > as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
> > declared unsafe by those researchers.
> >
> > If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
> > processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
> > because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves just
> > aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method of
> > sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but the
> > equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
> > are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved processes.
> > Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in your
> > resources and some good judgment.
> >
> Well said Barb. I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.
> Regardless of whether he is or not, I tend to not pay any attention to
> his posts if he insists on taking the path to home preserving that he is
> following. The only response of mine he will see is the one that tells
> newbies to disregard his advice and go to the UGA site for advice.

Hmmm ... More than one Dan here ... Call me "Dan L"

I am the original poster "Dan L". 27 new postings after this weekend
I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
(fruit fresh).

I admit, I have another reason for trying my hand at canning. I am
canning for just me (one person). So I will be in the small batch
thinking mode. I find in my old and decrepit age that I cannot eat wheat
or gluten. I am not a celiac or have wheat allergies. So it must be
gluten sensitivity. I feel so much better without wheat and almost all
health problems have gone away. I guess, it is never to late to learn.

Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
tomatoes, salt and citric acid.

I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life outside
of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
that list also ... in my old and decrepit age

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Dan L. wrote:

>
> Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
> barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
> binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
> miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
> tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
>
> I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life outside
> of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
> cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
> that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>

Good for you! Gardening can be a pleasure if you aren't
obsessive-compulsive over it. (Gotta go along with Mother Nature's
whims because there's not a darned thing you can do to foil her most of
the time.)

If you enjoy reading, get a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma". I am
recommending it to all my cooking and gardening friends. You will
probably not use any of the information contained therein, but it's a
very interesting read. Took me a longer time than usual to get through
it because I had to think about a lot of my own prejudices as I read,
but it made quite an impression and I will reread it this winter if
we're housebound due to snow.

gloria p

In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:
> I am the original poster "Dan L".

Understood.

(snipped)
> 27 new postings after this weekend
> I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
> I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
> canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
> jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
> (fruit fresh).

Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), not citric acid. It is used
to prevent some fruits from darkening (e.g., apples, bananas)

(snip)
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L

We do what we can, Dan. "-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

Dan L. wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Dan Musicant > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> :ljp other wrote:
>>>> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
>>>> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
>>>> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired to
>>>> :> kill their families.
>>>> :
>>>> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
>>>> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put it
>>>> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
>>>> :
>>>> :B/
>>>>
>>>> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
>>>> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>> If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could learn
>>> from others.
>>>
>>> A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by the
>>> U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
>>> (the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
>>> when the U was doing such research) said about options and the choices
>>> we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
>>> methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
>>> choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
>>> storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative approach
>>> designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
>>> maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance for
>>> those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
>>> health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.
>>>
>>> You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
>>> regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage a
>>> more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here after
>>> deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that they
>>> want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
>>> ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
>>> long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
>>> safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer information
>>> we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic and,
>>> as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
>>> declared unsafe by those researchers.
>>>
>>> If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
>>> processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
>>> because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves just
>>> aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method of
>>> sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but the
>>> equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
>>> are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved processes.
>>> Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in your
>>> resources and some good judgment.
>>>
>> Well said Barb. I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.
>> Regardless of whether he is or not, I tend to not pay any attention to
>> his posts if he insists on taking the path to home preserving that he is
>> following. The only response of mine he will see is the one that tells
>> newbies to disregard his advice and go to the UGA site for advice.
>
> Hmmm ... More than one Dan here ... Call me "Dan L"
>
> I am the original poster "Dan L". 27 new postings after this weekend
> I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
> I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
> canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
> jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
> (fruit fresh).
>
> I admit, I have another reason for trying my hand at canning. I am
> canning for just me (one person). So I will be in the small batch
> thinking mode. I find in my old and decrepit age that I cannot eat wheat
> or gluten. I am not a celiac or have wheat allergies. So it must be
> gluten sensitivity. I feel so much better without wheat and almost all
> health problems have gone away. I guess, it is never to late to learn.
>
> Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
> barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
> binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
> miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
> tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
>
> I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life outside
> of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
> cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
> that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>

I won't joust with you for the most decrepit old guy on this group Dan
L. I'll be 70 on the 23rd of this month and preserving the food we eat
has been with me since I was about 6 years old, during WWII. We had a
Victory garden in the backyard plus rabbits and chickens in cages too.
At age 10 we moved onto ten acres in the country and things really
revved up. DW and I bought our first pressure canner in about 1965 IIRC,
and have run through a lot of boiling water canners over the past forty
odd years. It gets in your blood and gets interesting once you dig into
the craft. The Ball book is pretty much the holy book of food preserving
for most people so it looks like you're doing good with it as opposed to
the OP who started this thread. Folks are always welcome on this group
and we're all interested in how you're doing and what you're doing with
the stuff you grow, preserve, or whatever.

Gloria P wrote:
> Dan L. wrote:
>
>>
>> Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
>> barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
>> binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
>> miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
>> tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
>>
>> I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life
>> outside of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic
>> gardening and cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens
>> and beekeeping to that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
>>
>> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>>
>
> Good for you! Gardening can be a pleasure if you aren't
> obsessive-compulsive over it. (Gotta go along with Mother Nature's
> whims because there's not a darned thing you can do to foil her most of
> the time.)
>
> If you enjoy reading, get a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma". I am
> recommending it to all my cooking and gardening friends. You will
> probably not use any of the information contained therein, but it's a
> very interesting read. Took me a longer time than usual to get through
> it because I had to think about a lot of my own prejudices as I read,
> but it made quite an impression and I will reread it this winter if
> we're housebound due to snow.
>
> gloria p

I can't believe you have food prejudices, from previous posts I believed
you were a sworn omnivore. <G>

George Shirley wrote:
>
> I can't believe you have food prejudices, from previous posts I believed
> you were a sworn omnivore. <G>


George:

You're pretty much right with that.

The book examines four different meals in depth:

1. fast food/McDOnald's
2. "factory" farming, i.e. regular supermarket stuff
3. real organic, a self-sustaining farm (this one's fascinating)
4. a meal pretty much from hunting and gathering in the wild (not
always successful, but he tried!)

gloria p

In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> I am the original poster "Dan L". 27 new postings after this weekend
> I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
> I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
> canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes.

Actually, it says it "may" produce a more nutritious product and "may"
be the best choice." I don't think I want to put my pressure canner on
my glass-top stove. Diameter is too big for my biggest burner.

> My mason jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and
> citric acid (fruit fresh).


Dan if you're pressure canning, you just need clean jars and lids; the
pressure processing will take care of sterilizing them. :-)

Citric acid is not the same as Fruit-Fresh, which is ascorbic acid. I
can buy citric acid at my food co-op and at a store near me called
U-Bake (their home base is in Wisconsin). You should also find it at a
store that sells candy-making supplies ‹ it is citric acid that puts the
pucker in fruit-flavored lollipops and hard candies. You might also
find it at a place like Wally World in its canning section; I think I've
seen a Ball label on some citric acid. A wine making supply place
should also have it, according to what I've read here.

Be sure you vent your canner for 10 minutes before you put the pressure
regulator on it.

> health problems have gone away. I guess, it is never to late to learn.

Good for you!

> Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
> barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
> binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
> miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
> tomatoes, salt and citric acid.

(Check that business about thinking Fruit Fresh is the same as ascorbic
acid; I don't think so.)

> cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
> that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L

I grew up on a farm, Dan. Be careful in the chicken yard ‹ you don't
want to be dropping your chewing gum there, thinking you'll just pick it
up and dust it off. "-)

And remember that age and treachery will trump youth and enthusiasm any
day. :-0)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1

In article >,
Gloria P > wrote:

> Dan L. wrote:
>
> >
> > Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
> > barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
> > binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
> > miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
> > tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
> >
> > I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life outside
> > of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
> > cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
> > that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
> >
> > Enjoy Life ... Dan L
> >
>
> Good for you! Gardening can be a pleasure if you aren't
> obsessive-compulsive over it. (Gotta go along with Mother Nature's
> whims because there's not a darned thing you can do to foil her most of
> the time.)
>
> If you enjoy reading, get a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma". I am
> recommending it to all my cooking and gardening friends. You will
> probably not use any of the information contained therein, but it's a
> very interesting read. Took me a longer time than usual to get through
> it because I had to think about a lot of my own prejudices as I read,
> but it made quite an impression and I will reread it this winter if
> we're housebound due to snow.
>
> gloria p

I have read the book by Michael Pollan, an excellent book. I am growing
my own corn, 1/4 acre of heirloom sweet corn and 1/4 acre of corn for
grinding my own corn meal. They are spaced apart, I hope far enough so
cross pollination does not occur. Corn and rice are my new staples.
However, the corn is not growing that well here in Michigan due to the
unusually cool summer. Also one more reason for raising my own true free
ranging chickens. The hard part of raising chickens is keeping my little
Yorkie from chasing them.

I read the book during winter. Winter is for reading and learning new
things. Summer is for applying what I learned during the winter. I took
the Master Gardeners class during the winter and applied the knowledge
this summer. Now is the time to learn to cook (well).

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> the craft. The Ball book is pretty much the holy book of food preserving
> for most people so it looks like you're doing good with it as opposed to
> the OP who started this thread. Folks are always welcome on this group
> and we're all interested in how you're doing and what you're doing with
> the stuff you grow, preserve, or whatever.

Dan L IS the guy who started the thread, Jorge. Pay attention! I'm
tellin'! Watch out for them banana peels. "-0)


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out

Gloria P wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>>
>> I can't believe you have food prejudices, from previous posts I
>> believed you were a sworn omnivore. <G>
>
>
> George:
>
> You're pretty much right with that.
>
> The book examines four different meals in depth:
>
> 1. fast food/McDOnald's

I only eat their breakfast meals, the rest I leave alone.

> 2. "factory" farming, i.e. regular supermarket stuff

We've always eaten a lot of that.

> 3. real organic, a self-sustaining farm (this one's fascinating)

Haven't done that in thirty-three years, even back then we found pure
organic didn't work in an area with 60-100 inches of rainfall a year.

> 4. a meal pretty much from hunting and gathering in the wild (not
> always successful, but he tried!)

Still do some of that, particularly the gathering. Getting a little long
in the tooth to run a deer down anymore. Besides I have many friends who
hunt every year and are willing to share. I do still go fishing, it is
only a five-minute drive to fresh or salt water for fishing from our house.
>
> gloria p