Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:06 PM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET

Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.

THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET
Take half a bushell of fine flower twise boulted, and a gallon of faire luke
warm water, almost a handful of white salt, and almost a pinte of yest, then
temper all these together, without any more liquor, as hard as ye can handle
it: then
let it lie halfe an hower, then take it up, and make your Manchetts, and let
them
stand almost an hower in the oven. Memorandum, that of every bushell of
meale may
be made five and twentie caste of bread, and every loaf to way a pounde
besyde the chesill.


Manchet is the name for the small fine round white loaves of the period.

A bushell is a measure of volume, about 60lb of flour.

Bolting is the sifting of the meal to remove the bran and make white flour.

The 'caste' of bread is an old quantity of bread, two or three loaves
according to their size.

The 'chesill' is the finer wheat germ and small dross which is removed from
the flour after the coarse bran.

Interesting that the dough is made up as 'hard' (dry, stiff?) as possible.
No high hydration bread there. Also the time taken in the making is very
short. I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. The yeast is presumably
brewers yeast in solution, a by-product of beer making.

Tim w




  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:47 AM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET

In article , Tim W wrote:
Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.
Interesting that the dough is made up as 'hard' (dry, stiff?) as possible.
No high hydration bread there. Also the time taken in the making is very
short. I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. The yeast is presumably
brewers yeast in solution, a by-product of beer making.


I don't believe that's quite how the ovens of the time worked. The bread
ovens would be of the domed sort, and the method of use was to jam the
burning material in there until it was up to temperature, then pull all the
embers out, give it a quick mopping, and then do the baking with the
residual heat.

Given that, there really isn't a warm oven for the bread to rise in, nor a
way to simply light the fire. I suspect that the instructions are correct,
given the technology and ingredients of the day.

JB
------------
Jeff Berry - http://www.aspiringluddite.com - food, musings, etc.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 10:41 AM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET


"Jeff Berry" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim W
wrote:
Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.
.... I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. ....



I don't believe that's quite how the ovens of the time worked. The bread
ovens would be of the domed sort, and the method of use was to jam the
burning material in there until it was up to temperature, then pull all
the
embers out, give it a quick mopping, and then do the baking with the
residual heat.

Given that, there really isn't a warm oven for the bread to rise in, nor a
way to simply light the fire. I suspect that the instructions are
correct,
given the technology and ingredients of the day.



If a wood fired oven is used daily I thougth it might be a warm place for
proving the loaves before it was lit, but I can't be right because the
timing would still be all wrong, you would have to remove them and wait at
least another hour while you fired the oven with faggots.

Anyway those timings can't be too accurate or critical in a world without
clocks. They must equate almost to "prove for a short while then bake slow
and long"

Tim W


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 11:57 AM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,133
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET



"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Berry" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim W
wrote:
Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.
.... I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an
hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. ....



I don't believe that's quite how the ovens of the time worked. The bread
ovens would be of the domed sort, and the method of use was to jam the
burning material in there until it was up to temperature, then pull all
the
embers out, give it a quick mopping, and then do the baking with the
residual heat.

Given that, there really isn't a warm oven for the bread to rise in, nor
a
way to simply light the fire. I suspect that the instructions are
correct,
given the technology and ingredients of the day.



If a wood fired oven is used daily I thougth it might be a warm place for
proving the loaves before it was lit, but I can't be right because the
timing would still be all wrong, you would have to remove them and wait at
least another hour while you fired the oven with faggots.

Anyway those timings can't be too accurate or critical in a world without
clocks. They must equate almost to "prove for a short while then bake slow
and long"


Ahh but you'm forgettin' the sun and sun dials, luvvie
--
--

https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:56 PM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET

In article , Tim W wrote:
If a wood fired oven is used daily I thougth it might be a warm place for
proving the loaves before it was lit, but I can't be right because the
timing would still be all wrong, you would have to remove them and wait at
least another hour while you fired the oven with faggots.


The kitchen itself is probably pretty warm most of the time.

Anyway those timings can't be too accurate or critical in a world without
clocks. They must equate almost to "prove for a short while then bake slow
and long"


A fair point. Depending on where you were and local custom, there might be
fairly accurate clocks and/or ringing of church bells to get you pretty
close. On the other hand, once you've done it a few times, you probably
developed a pretty good idea of when it was ready to go into the oven.
(For that matter, "half an hour," might really mean "get the oven ready
and when it's ready put the bread in.")

A larger question is whether the recipe was actually intended to be used
or was intended as an illustrative example of "how things work."

JB
------------
Jeff Berry - http://www.aspiringluddite.com - food, musings, etc.


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 02:43 PM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,541
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET


"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Berry" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim W
wrote:
Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.
.... I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an
hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. ....



I don't believe that's quite how the ovens of the time worked. The bread
ovens would be of the domed sort, and the method of use was to jam the
burning material in there until it was up to temperature, then pull all
the
embers out, give it a quick mopping, and then do the baking with the
residual heat.

Given that, there really isn't a warm oven for the bread to rise in, nor
a
way to simply light the fire. I suspect that the instructions are
correct,
given the technology and ingredients of the day.



If a wood fired oven is used daily I thougth it might be a warm place for
proving the loaves before it was lit, but I can't be right because the
timing would still be all wrong, you would have to remove them and wait at
least another hour while you fired the oven with faggots.

Anyway those timings can't be too accurate or critical in a world without
clocks. They must equate almost to "prove for a short while then bake slow
and long"

Tim W

I doubt that a wood fired oven was used every day. For example, in rural
England in C19 and in France, firing up the oven was a weekly affair.
Graham


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-05-2011, 06:29 PM posted to alt.bread.recipes,rec.food.historic
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Default THE MAKING OF FINE MANCHET


"graham" wrote in message
...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Berry" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim W
wrote:
Said to be the first ever printed recipe for bread from the anonymous

'The Good Huswife's Haindmaide for the Kitchen' of 1594.
.... I can't believe an hour in the oven is the baking time, maybe an
hour
rising in the warm oven before the fire is lit. ....



I don't believe that's quite how the ovens of the time worked. The
bread
ovens would be of the domed sort, and the method of use was to jam the
burning material in there until it was up to temperature, then pull all
the
embers out, give it a quick mopping, and then do the baking with the
residual heat.

Given that, there really isn't a warm oven for the bread to rise in, nor
a
way to simply light the fire. I suspect that the instructions are
correct,
given the technology and ingredients of the day.



If a wood fired oven is used daily I thougth it might be a warm place for
proving the loaves before it was lit, but I can't be right because the
timing would still be all wrong, you would have to remove them and wait
at least another hour while you fired the oven with faggots.

Anyway those timings can't be too accurate or critical in a world without
clocks. They must equate almost to "prove for a short while then bake
slow and long"


I doubt that a wood fired oven was used every day. For example, in rural
England in C19 and in France, firing up the oven was a weekly affair.
Graham


That may well have been the case where they had a big enough oven but there
is an old oven been uncovered in the fireplace in my cottage which had a
floor measuring about 2' x 3'. I don't suppose you could get enough of a
fire going in anything much smaller. The floor space is about the same as
you would have in a modern household double oven with shelves. It could only
have served the house and must have been fired as required - daily if there
were enough mouths to feed.

That recipe for Manchet though - I don't have the full context I just found
it quoted as is: it's titled The Good Houswife's Handmaid but the quantities
are for making about 90 x 1lb Manchets. Not at all household quantities and
it would need a very big oven to bake them even in two batches. So that just
doesn't make sense.

Tim w




Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT Fine for AC Julie Bove[_2_] General Cooking 516 27-07-2015 05:24 AM
Making Cheap Wine Taste Like A Fine Vintage jim c Winemaking 0 22-12-2008 12:09 PM
Making a Six-Figure Income From Passive / Money Making Tips itsFREEEE [email protected] General Cooking 0 26-11-2007 08:21 PM
Chill then Fine, or Fine then Chill - All in a Corny? [email protected] Winemaking 5 12-05-2006 04:26 AM
A fine Wine for a fine dinner Thurston Howell III Wine 2 13-03-2005 09:09 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017