http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html

For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
By KIM SEVERSON


"EVERY week, Merry Debbrecht pulls about 1,200 cookies out of her
electric range in Rose Hill, Kan. She packs them a dozen at a time in
Ziploc bags, fills a postal box and sends them to war.

Mrs. Debbrecht's care packages, born of a grandmotherly caring for the
young soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, are not much different from the
ones that have long made their way to battlefields. But now, the troops
who receive Mrs. Debbrecht's cookies request them through a Web site
called www.treatthetroops.org , and send her thank-you notes via
e-mail.

Familiar food has long comforted troops fighting wars in foreign
countries. But the modern care package is different because of the
complicated logistics of this war, advancements in technology and the
diverse and sophisticated palates of today's troops.

In Chico, Calif., Terry Westlake, 52, sends batches of homemade organic
granola and Odwalla power bars to her son, Brian, a trained chef who is
a sergeant in the 10th Mountain Division.

"He's really on a health kick," she said. "Anything we send, even the
jerky, has to be organic."

In a latte-swilling nation, it stands to reason that soldiers would
prefer something better than the Civil War-era coffee paste or the
packets of freeze-dried coffee that have been standard issue since
World War II. This month, Crystal White, who works at a Starbucks in
Waterville, Me., organized a shipment of 106 pounds of coffee beans and
a small grinder to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.

Ms. White got the idea after she watched a holiday television special
broadcast from the base and heard a soldier talk about all the coffee
they drank. "I wanted them to have something they're used to, something
from back home," said Ms. White, whose siblings have served in the
military. "I wanted them to know that there's something they are
fighting for."

Advances in coffee culture have even extended to "meals ready to eat,"
the portable field rations that are a constant source of nutrition in
Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of the newest versions will contain
chocolate-covered espresso beans.

And in a nod to the increasing ethnic diversity of troops, some
M.R.E.'s will soon include snack bread flavored with chipotle, packets
of salsa verde and spice mixes from the New Orleans chef Paul
Prudhomme.

"The culinary expectations of our war-fighters are rising each year and
we want to make sure the palate is well entertained," said Gerald
Darsch, director of the Department of Defense Combat Feeding
Directorate.

Other new field rations include an expanded line of vegetarian dishes,
including lasagna and chicken pesto pasta.

"I recommend a chardonnay with that," Mr. Darsch said.

Of course, alcohol can't be an official part of any care package. But
that doesn't mean people don't try. Ms. Westlake said a friend's son
wanted some vodka, so the family filled some Listerine bottles, added a
little blue food coloring and shipped it over.

Families who pack boxes of food for the troops have to work around
regulations unique to this war. Pork products are forbidden. And unlike
in past wars, where a well-meaning home cook could make a batch of
cookies and send them to "Any Service Member," the threat of anthrax or
other terrorist acts means packages must be addressed to a specific
person.

Well-meaning volunteers who want to send something to the troops but
have no personal connection can turn to America Supports You (
www.americasupportsyou.mil ), a kind of clearinghouse created to solve
the problem.

Allison Barber, a former public relations executive who is now deputy
assistant secretary for public affairs with the Department of Defense,
came up with the idea a year and a half ago.

"I heard from troops overseas who wondered if Americans back home
supported them," she said.

The idea has grown to a network of more than 20 corporations and 200
grass-roots groups that coordinate package shipments and events for
troops. Phone cards, clean socks and cookies have all been shipped
through the organization. Some groups have arranged steak cookouts on
aircraft carriers or shipped cases of Girl Scout cookies. And although
the occasional box of Thin Mints melts into an unappealing blob in the
Iraqi heat, they are gobbled up anyway.

"A taste of home is a taste of home," Ms. Barber said.

Many families send food on their own. Pamela M. Stachler of Athens,
Ohio, might be the champion. She personally spent about $4,000 on 68
care packages to her son, Nick, during his three tours as an Army
Ranger with the 82nd Airborne Division.

"The one thing they long for is mail and food packages," she said. "My
son told me that that's what kept him going."

When her son first went over, at the start of the war in 2003, the
military's internal mail system wasn't set up to handle the sometimes
chaotic and fast-changing nature of troop deployment. As a result, some
of her packages took a month to arrive.

Since then the system has been streamlined. The postal service sells a
flat-rate box a little larger than a briefcase that can be shipped to
any military address for $8.10, no matter what the weight. Care
packages, which can include food and other items like socks and
sunscreen, usually arrive in 10 days to two weeks.

Ms. Stachler, 49, stuffed her packages with the usual suspects -
chips and salsa, canned chicken and little jars of mayonnaise, instant
pasta and an array of crackers, candy and gum. But she managed to get
most of a deer, butchered and turned into stick sausage and jerky, to
her son. Thanks to vacuum packing and lots of cold packs, the meat
arrived intact. "We called it the Baghdad Deer from Lodi Township," she
said.

Sergeant Stachler shared it with buddies, like almost every care
package he received.

"It was good, real good," he said. "That's what you wait for, because
all we eat pretty much are the M.R.E.'s. American food, it just makes
your day."

Of course, the classics are still finding their way overseas. During
World War II, Katz's Deli in Manhattan created the slogan "Send a
salami to your boy in the Army." People still do. The deli ships about
25 dried beef salamis a week.

In Mrs. Debbrecht's book, cookies remain the most comforting food a
soldier can receive. Most are made with chocolate chips, but she
substitutes M & Ms in the summer because they don't melt as easily. Her
lemon cookies are popular, too. "They drink a lot of tea over there and
I think lemon cookies go really good with it," she said.

For Petty Officer Third Class Kimberly Husser, aboard the guided
missile destroyer McFaul, the cookies Mrs. Debbrecht sent were like
little miracles.

"We close our eyes at night with a plan in case of an attack, we sweat
for 16 hours a day in the 140-degree weather, rarely do we get to talk
to our children or loved ones," she wrote in an e-mail. "It relieved a
lot of stress to just sit and eat cookies with the crew you work so
hard with all day. If I had a chance to thank her in person I would
give her the warmest hug and tell her how she brought our crew closer
together with just a single cookie."

</>

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
>
> For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
> By KIM SEVERSON

<snip>

**** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!

"Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
emails from soldiers.

-L.

-L. wrote:
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
>>
>> For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
>> By KIM SEVERSON
>
> <snip>
>
> **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
>
> "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
> the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
> and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
> emails from soldiers.
>
> -L.

Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home, even if it
isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of WWII, Korea and
VietNam and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth lightly.
Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an airplane, people
who join the military and get shipped off don't get to choose where they are
sent. And every little care package reminds them we care even if we don't
approve of the war they are fighting.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home, even if it
> isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of WWII, Korea and
> VietNam

I'm not imprressed. He went through all that and is still a racist
asshole? Some people apparently will never learn, will they?


> and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth lightly.
> Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an airplane, people
> who join the military and get shipped off don't get to choose where they are
> sent. And every little care package reminds them we care even if we don't
> approve of the war they are fighting.
>
> Jill

Yeah, "Honey", and bullshit articles in the media like this one make
people think war is just cookies and rosy welcome-homes. And I'll
"shoot off my mouth" anytime I ****ing feel like it. Get it?

-L.

-L. wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home,
>> even if it isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of
>> WWII, Korea and VietNam
>
> I'm not imprressed. He went through all that and is still a racist
> asshole? Some people apparently will never learn, will they?
>
No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
him. He also hates cats, what can I say?

>> and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
>> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth
>> lightly. Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an
>> airplane, people who join the military and get shipped off don't get
>> to choose where they are sent. And every little care package
>> reminds them we care even if we don't approve of the war they are
>> fighting.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Yeah, "Honey", and bullshit articles in the media like this one make
> people think war is just cookies and rosy welcome-homes. And I'll
> "shoot off my mouth" anytime I ****ing feel like it. Get it?
>
> -L.

Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just that.
Articles. Opinions. Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
your adopted son, I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
serving in Iraq.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
. ..
> -L. wrote:
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home,
> >> even if it isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of
> >> WWII, Korea and VietNam
> >
> > I'm not imprressed. He went through all that and is still a racist
> > asshole? Some people apparently will never learn, will they?
> >
> No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
> anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
> him. He also hates cats, what can I say?
>
> >> and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> >> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth
> >> lightly. Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an
> >> airplane, people who join the military and get shipped off don't get
> >> to choose where they are sent. And every little care package
> >> reminds them we care even if we don't approve of the war they are
> >> fighting.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > Yeah, "Honey", and bullshit articles in the media like this one make
> > people think war is just cookies and rosy welcome-homes. And I'll
> > "shoot off my mouth" anytime I ****ing feel like it. Get it?
> >
> > -L.
>
> Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just
that.
> Articles. Opinions. Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> your adopted son, I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> serving in Iraq.
>

Go Jill!

I say make her captain of the Asshole Squad.



Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php

cybercat wrote:
>
> Go Jill!
>
> I say make her captain of the Asshole Squad.

Tha's Lt. Commander Stinky Asshole, to you.

-L.

jmcquown wrote:
> -L. wrote:
<snip>

> >
> No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
> anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
> him. He also hates cats, what can I say?

LOL.... But I have to say, I find that pretty sad. I'd hope that
anyone who participated in even one war would learn the futility of
killing each other, and learn some compassion for his fellow man.

<snip>

> Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just that.
> Articles. Opinions.

Yeah, and unfortunately, these kinds of "articles" are about all that
we are "allowed" to read about this assinine war...THAT is what ****es
me off. To get any decent news, you have to surf to Europe or the
Middle East when they aren't blocking the connections...

> Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> your adopted son,

Humm....I didn't know we were going to be on the same flight!
LOL...Seriously, I don't worry about the odd passenger with a
peanutbutter cookie or sandwich - I can always ask to be moved. In
fact, I don't expect anyone individual to take us into consideration.
What I do worry about is an entire cabin or airplane filled with nuts.
I just want the option of changing flights if nuts are served.


>I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> serving in Iraq.

Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
option but to join the military because they are poor and not
academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
their lives for being poor.

-L.

jmcquown wrote:
> No one can account for racist attitudes.
<snip>

Hell, I wrote an entire response and it disappeared (probably
censored!). Let's suffice it to say I don't disagree with you, but
that I just get sick of not having access to real news about what's
going on in Iraq (except via European and Middle Eastern news links, if
and when you can access them) and I think we (collective) have a hell
of a lot more important things to be thinking about than cookies...

-L.
..

-L. wrote:

> jmcquown wrote:
> > -L. wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > >
> > No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
> > anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
> > him. He also hates cats, what can I say?
>
> LOL.... But I have to say, I find that pretty sad. I'd hope that
> anyone who participated in even one war would learn the futility of
> killing each other, and learn some compassion for his fellow man.


Unfortunately acts of war are sometimes not only useful, they're
sometimes the best possible avenue of action -- and thus necessary,
e.g. the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan, the US Revolutionary
War, etc., etc....



> <snip>
>
> > Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just that.
> > Articles. Opinions.
>
> Yeah, and unfortunately, these kinds of "articles" are about all that
> we are "allowed" to read about this assinine war...THAT is what ****es
> me off. To get any decent news, you have to surf to Europe or the
> Middle East when they aren't blocking the connections...


Actually it's your tinfoil hat that is "blocking the connections"...

BTW, if you bother to read the _Times_ and other sources there are
plenty of articles about the war.

This particular article's topic happened to concern food items that
folks sent the troops...or did you read it?



> > Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> > your adopted son,
>
> Humm....I didn't know we were going to be on the same flight!
> LOL...Seriously, I don't worry about the odd passenger with a
> peanutbutter cookie or sandwich - I can always ask to be moved. In
> fact, I don't expect anyone individual to take us into consideration.
> What I do worry about is an entire cabin or airplane filled with nuts.
> I just want the option of changing flights if nuts are served.


If I knew I was going to be on a flight with you lot I'd bring on TONS
of peanuts...


> >I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> > serving in Iraq.
>
> Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
> option but to join the military because they are poor and not
> academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
> their lives for being poor.


That's life...and *everybody* eventually dies.

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:

>
>
> Unfortunately acts of war are sometimes not only useful, they're
> sometimes the best possible avenue of action -- and thus necessary,
> e.g. the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan, the US Revolutionary
> War, etc., etc....

Yeah, really "useful". Kill people to resolve your differences.
Barbaric, at best.

>
>
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just that.
> > > Articles. Opinions.
> >
> > Yeah, and unfortunately, these kinds of "articles" are about all that
> > we are "allowed" to read about this assinine war...THAT is what ****es
> > me off. To get any decent news, you have to surf to Europe or the
> > Middle East when they aren't blocking the connections...
>
>
> Actually it's your tinfoil hat that is "blocking the connections"...

Um, no, asshole.

>
> BTW, if you bother to read the _Times_ and other sources there are
> plenty of articles about the war.

Which "Times" would that be? There isn't a single major (or hell,
even minor) newspaper in this country that isn't heavily censored.

>
> This particular article's topic happened to concern food items that
> folks sent the troops...or did you read it?

I read enough to know it was merely a "personal interst" piece and had
nothing to do with anything of substance.

>
>
>
> > > Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> > > your adopted son,
> >
> > Humm....I didn't know we were going to be on the same flight!
> > LOL...Seriously, I don't worry about the odd passenger with a
> > peanutbutter cookie or sandwich - I can always ask to be moved. In
> > fact, I don't expect anyone individual to take us into consideration.
> > What I do worry about is an entire cabin or airplane filled with nuts.
> > I just want the option of changing flights if nuts are served.
>
>
> If I knew I was going to be on a flight with you lot I'd bring on TONS
> of peanuts...

That's a really nice thing to say about an innocent two year old child.
Of course people like you are the kind who advocate war...no life
means anything to you except your own.


>
>
> > >I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> > > serving in Iraq.
> >
> > Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
> > option but to join the military because they are poor and not
> > academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
> > their lives for being poor.
>
>
> That's life...and *everybody* eventually dies.

And many die because of the whims of rich (predominantly white) fat
asses who don't have a clue what it means to have to struggle to
survive.

-L.

jmcquown wrote:
>
> -L. wrote:
> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
> >>
> >> For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
> >> By KIM SEVERSON
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
> >
> > "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
> > the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
> > and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
> > emails from soldiers.
> >
> > -L.
>
> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home, even if it
> isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of WWII, Korea and
> VietNam and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth lightly.
> Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an airplane, people
> who join the military and get shipped off don't get to choose where they are
> sent. And every little care package reminds them we care even if we don't
> approve of the war they are fighting.
>
> Jill
Recently, while cleaning out some stuff from my elderly Mom's house,
we came across the letters she received from my Dad while he was
overseas. (I don't know what happened to the letters she sent to him,
but I'm guessing that when he was shipped home (on the Queen Elizabeth)
he wasn't able to bring them.) Mom gave me permission to read them,
since I was born while he was over there. In all of the letters, he
mentioned to keep the letters and packages coming, that they were what
keeps them going. EVERY letter, some asking for specific things, was a
request and a thank you. ....Sharon

biig wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> -L. wrote:
>>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
>>>>
>>>> For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
>>>> By KIM SEVERSON
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
>>>
>>> "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's
>>> hear
>>> the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
>>> and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
>>> emails from soldiers.
>>>
>>> -L.
>>
>> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home,
>> even if it isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of
>> WWII, Korea and VietNam and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't
>> have email back then) and cookies and brownies. So don't go
>> shooting off your mouth lightly. Unlike me picking and choosing
>> cookies and snacks for an airplane, people who join the military and
>> get shipped off don't get to choose where they are sent. And every
>> little care package reminds them we care even if we don't approve of
>> the war they are fighting.
>>
>> Jill
> Recently, while cleaning out some stuff from my elderly Mom's house,
> we came across the letters she received from my Dad while he was
> overseas. (I don't know what happened to the letters she sent to him,
> but I'm guessing that when he was shipped home (on the Queen
> Elizabeth)
> he wasn't able to bring them.) Mom gave me permission to read them,
> since I was born while he was over there. In all of the letters, he
> mentioned to keep the letters and packages coming, that they were what
> keeps them going. EVERY letter, some asking for specific things, was
> a request and a thank you. ....Sharon

Sharon,

During the Vietnam years my father decided it would be the coolest thing if
he and mom exchanged taped (as in reel-to-reel) taped letters to each other.
He had a small battery powered reel-to-reel Sony tape recorder and mom and a
big one. They taped letters back and forth. Dad gave me that small
reel-to-reel recorder back in the 1980's. What he didn't realize was there
was still a small 4 inch reel stuck in one of the pockets of the carrying
case. When I queued it up I heard my Dad, who was about 35 at the time,
talking about how Mom should go ahead and by me a proper bed since I'd been
sleeping on a cot since I'd been out of my crib. I was 6 years old, maybe
7, when he recorded this. It was a strange and heartwarming thing to hear
my father's voice talking about her buying me a bed, knowing as I listened
he was away at a war (conflict) no one supported, but what was he worried
about? Mom buying me a proper bed. She got me a canopy bed I also
remember helping her bake peanut butter cookies and oatmeal cookies to ship
to him. Yes, he treasured every package even though they took months to get
there. I gather things are delivered faster these days.

Jill

-L. wrote:

> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
>>
>>For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
>>By KIM SEVERSON
>
>
> <snip>
>
> **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
>

Yes, but why take it out on the troops? Many of them don't
support the war either. Being angry about bad public policy
is one thing. Directing your anger at the ones getting shot
at every day is not.

Do you really think your cookie boycott is going to
fix our foreign policy? Withholding care packages
from the troops is irrational.

> "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
> the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
> and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
> emails from soldiers.

You must have a different cable package than I do. I
see the carnage every day.

--
Reg

In article . com>,
"-L." > wrote:

> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
> >
> > For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
> > By KIM SEVERSON
>
> <snip>
>
> **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
>
> "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
> the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
> and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
> emails from soldiers.
>
> -L.

Gods your a bitch.

But you are right. :-(

Cheers........
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> -L. wrote:
> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
> >>
> >> For Soldiers' Appetites, Reinforcements
> >> By KIM SEVERSON
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > **** sending them cookies. Just bring them back home!
> >
> > "Personal interest" stories like this make me wanna puke. Let's hear
> > the real stories of war - where little kids get shrapnel in the eyes
> > and grandmas get their legs blown off. War is not about cookies and
> > emails from soldiers.
> >
> > -L.
>
> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home, even if it
> isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of WWII, Korea and
> VietNam and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth lightly.
> Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an airplane, people
> who join the military and get shipped off don't get to choose where they are
> sent. And every little care package reminds them we care even if we don't
> approve of the war they are fighting.
>
> Jill

I don't think she was suggesting that we don't send moral packages.....
It's one way to keep them from despair. I've read some reports that
suicide rates among troops are unacceptably high so they need all the
love we can send them.

But we do need to bring them home. The turning point has come and the
people over there don't want us there anymore.

I love that line from "The Postman":

"It'd be great if wars were fought
just by the assholes who started them."

Lets put Bush and Hussein into a ring with a pair of swords. Winner take
all. Hell of it is, both of them are cowards....... <sigh>
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> -L. wrote:
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home,
> >> even if it isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of
> >> WWII, Korea and VietNam
> >
> > I'm not imprressed. He went through all that and is still a racist
> > asshole? Some people apparently will never learn, will they?
> >
> No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
> anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
> him. He also hates cats, what can I say?

Damn. I did not know that.
That explains a LOT!
The vast majority of cat haters are control freaks......

>
> >> and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> >> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth
> >> lightly. Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an
> >> airplane, people who join the military and get shipped off don't get
> >> to choose where they are sent. And every little care package
> >> reminds them we care even if we don't approve of the war they are
> >> fighting.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > Yeah, "Honey", and bullshit articles in the media like this one make
> > people think war is just cookies and rosy welcome-homes. And I'll
> > "shoot off my mouth" anytime I ****ing feel like it. Get it?
> >
> > -L.
>
> Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just that.
> Articles. Opinions. Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> your adopted son, I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> serving in Iraq.
>
> Jill

It amazes me the extreme emotional responses that this kind of thing
invokes. This war is every bit as unpopular I think as the Vietnam war
was. I think the major difference is that this situation has made a LOT
more enemies even among our allies.

I feel for our troops and both of you are correct and have valid
opinions, or at least that's my 2 cents. ;-)

I don't know what to do or how to feel anymore. I'm all torn up inside
over it.........

I was listening to the radio this morning and there are those that are
of the strong opinion that us launching a pre-emptive war has directly
lead to nuclear proliferation in both Korea and Iran. Both countries
felt thet needed "the bomb" to scare us into not invading them.

So, has this whole situation done more harm than good??????

But, we can't blame it on our people that have been sent over there!
I'm all for care packages......... and bringing them home asap.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article >, "cybercat" >
wrote:

> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > -L. wrote:
> > > jmcquown wrote:
> > >> Well sweetie, those soldiers appreciate care packages from home,
> > >> even if it isn't from their own home. My father is a veteran of
> > >> WWII, Korea and VietNam
> > >
> > > I'm not imprressed. He went through all that and is still a racist
> > > asshole? Some people apparently will never learn, will they?
> > >
> > No one can account for racist attitudes. I won't say the wars taught him
> > anything one way or the other but he had no say in where government sent
> > him. He also hates cats, what can I say?
> >
> > >> and he sure appreciated letters (they didn't have email back then)
> > >> and cookies and brownies. So don't go shooting off your mouth
> > >> lightly. Unlike me picking and choosing cookies and snacks for an
> > >> airplane, people who join the military and get shipped off don't get
> > >> to choose where they are sent. And every little care package
> > >> reminds them we care even if we don't approve of the war they are
> > >> fighting.
> > >>
> > >> Jill
> > >
> > > Yeah, "Honey", and bullshit articles in the media like this one make
> > > people think war is just cookies and rosy welcome-homes. And I'll
> > > "shoot off my mouth" anytime I ****ing feel like it. Get it?
> > >
> > > -L.
> >
> > Of course you will, just as I do Just saying... articles are just
> that.
> > Articles. Opinions. Just like I'm not packing peanut butter because of
> > your adopted son, I'm also not adverse to shipping some cookies to folks
> > serving in Iraq.
> >
>
> Go Jill!
>
> I say make her captain of the Asshole Squad.

I don't.
As I agree with both of them.........
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article .com>,
"-L." > wrote:

> Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
> option but to join the military because they are poor and not
> academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
> their lives for being poor.
>
> -L.

That is so frickin' true.......

and so very sad.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> I don't think she was suggesting that we don't send moral packages.....
> It's one way to keep them from despair. I've read some reports that
> suicide rates among troops are unacceptably high so they need all the
> love we can send them.

Exactly. So how does "**** sending them cookies" help
in this endeavor?

> But we do need to bring them home.

The one has nothing to do with the other. I worry
when people confuse these two issues.

Our troops != Our leaders

Just a friendly reminder

--
Reg

In article . com>,
"-L." > wrote:

> Yeah, really "useful". Kill people to resolve your differences.
> Barbaric, at best.

W
A
R

We
Are
Right

About sums it up don't you think?

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Again.

And again.

And again........
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

>
> Sharon,
>
> During the Vietnam years my father decided it would be the coolest thing if
> he and mom exchanged taped (as in reel-to-reel) taped letters to each other.
> He had a small battery powered reel-to-reel Sony tape recorder and mom and a
> big one. They taped letters back and forth. Dad gave me that small
> reel-to-reel recorder back in the 1980's. What he didn't realize was there
> was still a small 4 inch reel stuck in one of the pockets of the carrying
> case. When I queued it up I heard my Dad, who was about 35 at the time,
> talking about how Mom should go ahead and by me a proper bed since I'd been
> sleeping on a cot since I'd been out of my crib. I was 6 years old, maybe
> 7, when he recorded this. It was a strange and heartwarming thing to hear
> my father's voice talking about her buying me a bed, knowing as I listened
> he was away at a war (conflict) no one supported, but what was he worried
> about? Mom buying me a proper bed. She got me a canopy bed I also
> remember helping her bake peanut butter cookies and oatmeal cookies to ship
> to him. Yes, he treasured every package even though they took months to get
> there. I gather things are delivered faster these days.
>
> Jill

Hope so! I wish I had a recording, but having the letters is great
too. The ones that touched me most were the ones written in the month
of my birth, reminding my Mom to cable him as soon as I was born and the
reply to the cable where he said "I was so happy I would have cried if
there weren't so many "boys" around". He also sent letters with advice
on how to teach me to walk, how to keep me from climbing out of my crib
(I fell out of my crib and sprained my arm). There are 182 letters and
I'm not through them yet. ......Sharon

On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:28:14 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article .com>,
> "-L." > wrote:
>
>> Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
>> option but to join the military because they are poor and not
>> academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
>> their lives for being poor.
>>
>> -L.
>
> That is so frickin' true.......

No it's not.

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> W
> A
> R
>
> We
> Are
> Right
>
> About sums it up don't you think?
>
> Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
>
> Again.
>
> And again.
>
> And again........
> --
> Peace!
> Om

too true!
-L.

Reg wrote:
> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > I don't think she was suggesting that we don't send moral packages.....
> > It's one way to keep them from despair. I've read some reports that
> > suicide rates among troops are unacceptably high so they need all the
> > love we can send them.
>
> Exactly. So how does "**** sending them cookies" help
> in this endeavor?

The point is Reg, sending them cookies doesn't do a hell of a lot to
help them out - as compared to stopping this ill-conceived,
ill-executed, offensive war and getting them home.

>
> > But we do need to bring them home.
>
> The one has nothing to do with the other. I worry
> when people confuse these two issues.
>
> Our troops != Our leaders

Lead us where? Hell in a handbasket? The "troups" are the biggest
group of followers there are.

-L.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> Gods your a bitch.

Goddamned right. The world is not changed by a bunch of mamby-pamby
followers.

>
> But you are right. :-(

Of course.

-L.

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> I'll be awfully glad when Earthlink's news servers are back up and
> running -- on my regular newsreader I have your utter rubbish
> killfiled...
>
> --
> Best
> Greg :-)

Oooh...you so studly with that killfile! Truth hurts, doesn't it?

-L.
(my apologies to CC for stealing your line...)

-L. wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>>
>>The one has nothing to do with the other. I worry
>>when people confuse these two issues.
>>
>>Our troops != Our leaders
>
> Lead us where? Hell in a handbasket? The "troups" are the biggest
> group of followers there are.

LOL

!= means "not equal to"

--
Reg

In article >,
Yeff > wrote:

> On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:28:14 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article .com>,
> > "-L." > wrote:
> >
> >> Neither am I. I feel sorry for the kids who feel like they have no
> >> option but to join the military because they are poor and not
> >> academically gifted. There's a whole hell of a lot of them giving
> >> their lives for being poor.
> >>
> >> -L.
> >
> > That is so frickin' true.......
>
> No it's not.

Obviously you've not seen some of the recruiting campaigns.
It is all too true........
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article . com>,
"-L." > wrote:

> Reg wrote:
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think she was suggesting that we don't send moral packages.....
> > > It's one way to keep them from despair. I've read some reports that
> > > suicide rates among troops are unacceptably high so they need all the
> > > love we can send them.
> >
> > Exactly. So how does "**** sending them cookies" help
> > in this endeavor?
>
> The point is Reg, sending them cookies doesn't do a hell of a lot to
> help them out - as compared to stopping this ill-conceived,
> ill-executed, offensive war and getting them home.
>
> >
> > > But we do need to bring them home.
> >
> > The one has nothing to do with the other. I worry
> > when people confuse these two issues.
> >
> > Our troops != Our leaders
>
> Lead us where? Hell in a handbasket? The "troups" are the biggest
> group of followers there are.
>
> -L.

I don't entirely agree with that...
All thru history, troops do what they are told, go where they are sent
and, well, just try to survive. Most of them are just pawns in a giant
chess game and are just as helpless as we are.

Rebelling or deserting earns nothing but a jail sentence.

I work with several ex-military. What is interesting is that the split
is about 60-30-10.

60% of them are against this whole mess and object to it, 30% are
gung-ho all towards it, and 10% don't know what to think.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:15:32 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> Obviously you've not seen some of the recruiting campaigns.
> It is all too true........

I spent 10 years in the Air Force and currently run a mailing list of
present and former military members, more than a few of whom have served
in either Afghanistan or Iraq. My father retired from the Army and my
brother served for 10 years and made it into Kuwait during Desert Storm.

My own daughter is in JROTC in high school and will be going to Fort
Jackson this August for Army basic training. She made this decision
after giving *serious* thought to going to a service academy, thought
which included a visit and tour to the US Military Academy at West
Point, a tour arranged by the Honorable Michael Montelongo who, at the
time, was the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Financial
Management and Comptroller. Mr. Montelongo was also a graduate of West
Point and invited us for a visit at the Pentagon. The meeting with him
lasted just over an hour and included Pat Walker Locke, one of the 2
first black women to graduate from West Point. Mrs. Walker was so
impressed with my daughter that she invited her to a brunch she was
having the next day. At that brunch was Brigadier General Vincent
Brooks, the 1st black First Captain at West Point. BG Brooks was also
the spokesman for CENTCOM during the Iraqi invasion:
<http://www.udel.edu/global/community/brooksbio.html>

My daughter has some *amazing* opportunities opened up for her and she's
*choosing* to enlist.

Yes, I've seen the recruiting campaigns.

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

In article >,
Yeff > wrote:

> On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:15:32 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > Obviously you've not seen some of the recruiting campaigns.
> > It is all too true........
>
> I spent 10 years in the Air Force and currently run a mailing list of
> present and former military members, more than a few of whom have served
> in either Afghanistan or Iraq. My father retired from the Army and my
> brother served for 10 years and made it into Kuwait during Desert Storm.
>
> My own daughter is in JROTC in high school and will be going to Fort
> Jackson this August for Army basic training. She made this decision
> after giving *serious* thought to going to a service academy, thought
> which included a visit and tour to the US Military Academy at West
> Point, a tour arranged by the Honorable Michael Montelongo who, at the
> time, was the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Financial
> Management and Comptroller. Mr. Montelongo was also a graduate of West
> Point and invited us for a visit at the Pentagon. The meeting with him
> lasted just over an hour and included Pat Walker Locke, one of the 2
> first black women to graduate from West Point. Mrs. Walker was so
> impressed with my daughter that she invited her to a brunch she was
> having the next day. At that brunch was Brigadier General Vincent
> Brooks, the 1st black First Captain at West Point. BG Brooks was also
> the spokesman for CENTCOM during the Iraqi invasion:
> <http://www.udel.edu/global/community/brooksbio.html>
>
> My daughter has some *amazing* opportunities opened up for her and she's
> *choosing* to enlist.
>
> Yes, I've seen the recruiting campaigns.

In other words, you did not have the money to send her to a good
college... and were not poor enough to qualify for pel grants.

Sorry.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:15:52 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In other words, you did not have the money to send her to a good
> college... and were not poor enough to qualify for pel grants.
>
> Sorry.

You missed the point entirely. Enlisting isn't something she wants to
do in lieu of a good job or a college opportunity, it's just something
she wants to do.

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

In article >,
Yeff > wrote:

> On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:15:52 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In other words, you did not have the money to send her to a good
> > college... and were not poor enough to qualify for pel grants.
> >
> > Sorry.
>
> You missed the point entirely. Enlisting isn't something she wants to
> do in lieu of a good job or a college opportunity, it's just something
> she wants to do.

So, she is risking her life.... for what?

I'm sure you are proud of her, she sounds like a fantastic kid.
But that won't be much comfort if you, like a couple of thousand parents
in our country, are placing flowers on her grave.

It's really none of my business and I certainly respect individual
decisions but I personally feel (please keep in mind it's personal for
ME not YOU) that anyone that enlists right now is a bloody fool.

We have a retarded psychopath for a CIC. He's another damned Hitler.
It's just.......

wrong.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/31/dining/31care.html
>

>
> Other new field rations include an expanded line of vegetarian dishes,
> including lasagna and chicken pesto pasta.

?!?!?!? Made with real vegetarian chicken?!?!?

>

On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:24 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> So, she is risking her life.... for what?

For you.

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

In article >,
Yeff > wrote:

> On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:24 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > So, she is risking her life.... for what?
>
> For you.

Uh, I don't think so...
Not in Iraq.

Afghanistan maybe.
But the news seldom talks about that anymore.

What are we REALLY doing over there?
What is the truth?

Regime change, while not a bad thing, is not going to do any good.
The police force we have "trained" so far is just as ugly and corrupt as
the previous one so far.

What have we accomplished?

That country will go nowhere until they have a true democracy, and
SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE like we have.

What are the odds?
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Reg wrote:
> -L. wrote:
>
> > Reg wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>The one has nothing to do with the other. I worry
> >>when people confuse these two issues.
> >>
> >>Our troops != Our leaders
> >
> > Lead us where? Hell in a handbasket? The "troups" are the biggest
> > group of followers there are.
>
> LOL
>
> != means "not equal to"

I thought it was a typo!
-L.

Yeff wrote:
> My daughter has some *amazing* opportunities opened up for her and she's
> *choosing* to enlist.

Hope you don't get her back in a body bag.

>
> Yes, I've seen the recruiting campaigns.

They target the poor and those with no prospects. That's a fact.

-L.

Yeff wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 13:28:24 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > So, she is risking her life.... for what?
>
> For you.

P-****ing-lease! Tell her I said get a job at KMart instead. She
isn't doing jack **** for me, except wasting my tax dollar.

Another case of military brat brainwashed by parental unit...Pretty
sad, really.

-L.