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Krusty wrote:
> "trijcomm" > wrote ...
> > >That's really unfair, Janis. Where did you learn all this info....was

> > the setup to one of your women's apartment wrestling videos some chick
> >>in pantyhose reading an Atkins diet book?

> >
> > You should really look into that Atkins diet book ...

>
> Hardly, it's a "diet" for idiots.
>
> Get a biology degree and *really* learn about food.


You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.

Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
meant to eat wheat grass.

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jombithedjinn wrote:

> Krusty wrote:
>
>>"trijcomm" > wrote ...
>>
>>>>That's really unfair, Janis. Where did you learn all this info....was
>>>
>>>the setup to one of your women's apartment wrestling videos some chick
>>>
>>>>in pantyhose reading an Atkins diet book?
>>>
>>>You should really look into that Atkins diet book ...

>>
>>Hardly, it's a "diet" for idiots.
>>
>>Get a biology degree and *really* learn about food.

>
>
> You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
> beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
> that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.
>
> Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
> conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
> intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
> green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
> meant to eat wheat grass.


Data Point: I've been eating a low carb diet for going on eleven years
now. I am very healthy; all the tests confirm it. Have kept 40 pounds
off (with the occasional bump upward after a nasty car wreck, when I
couldn't exercise; and when I've gone hypothyroid.) Drastically
improved my energy level. Enjoy the food tremendously, and really don't
miss anything.

And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.

Dana

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jombithedjinn wrote:
> You obviously know nothing about nutrition.


You shouldn't say things like that when you are just about to say
things like this:

> Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet


A diet that forces you into an illness in order to create a particular
look for a purely subjective reason is inferior to almost any other
diet in almost every way.

Atkins was a scam, then a fad, now it's just an old joke.

--Blair

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Dana Carpender wrote:
> And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
> the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
> 50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.


You know nothing about evolution, either.

--Blair

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Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> Dana Carpender wrote:
> > And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
> > the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> > around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> > indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
> > 50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> > fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.

>
> You know nothing about evolution, either.
>
> --Blair


Could you elaborate?
Thanks!

P



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Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> jombithedjinn wrote:
>
>>You obviously know nothing about nutrition.

>
>
> You shouldn't say things like that when you are just about to say
> things like this:
>
>
>>Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet

>
>
> A diet that forces you into an illness in order to create a particular
> look for a purely subjective reason is inferior to almost any other
> diet in almost every way.
>


People who think ketosis is an illness are misinformed. It's very likely
that our hunter/gatherer ancestors spent much of their lives in ketosis.

> Atkins was a scam, then a fad, now it's just an old joke.


Atkins works, has been around for over 30 years, and has quite a lot of
independant clinical research backing it up.

Dana

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Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> Dana Carpender wrote:
>
>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.

>
>
> You know nothing about evolution, either.
>



Nice assertion. Care to back it up?

Dana
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Just out of curiosity: How many of the people in this discussion who
are referring to Atkins as a "scam" or claim it's unhealthy have
actually *read* Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, or any book written by
Dr. Atkins, for that matter?

Dana
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"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> Dana Carpender wrote:
>>
>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.

>>
>>
>> You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>

>
>
> Nice assertion. Care to back it up?


Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
years.

What else do you want to know.


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"jombithedjinn" > wrote
> You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
> beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
> that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.


You're a ****ing idiot.

Seriously.

And you're totally wrong.

Wrong, AND an idiot.

Happy to Help.




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"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> Just out of curiosity: How many of the people in this discussion who are
> referring to Atkins as a "scam" or claim it's unhealthy have actually
> *read* Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, or any book written by Dr. Atkins,
> for that matter?


Me. It's a scam. It's unhealthy, and you're a ****ing moron if you buy into
"fad" diets.

But hey, since this all started with an offhanded comment by Trijcomm, I'm
not surprised it drew other hopelessly clueless rubes.



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Dana Carpender wrote:
> Just out of curiosity: How many of the people in this discussion who
> are referring to Atkins as a "scam" or claim it's unhealthy have
> actually *read* Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, or any book written by
> Dr. Atkins, for that matter?
>

[ All the cross - addresses deleted ]

I read the first Atkins book through about the first 60 pages. It was
such nonsense I kept waiting for the punch line. When it hadn't
appeared by then, I tossed it. Then to my surprise it didn't go away
and developed a whole generation of True Believers. So I read
whichever was the latest book about a year and a half ago. Once again
it's premises were ludicrous but now there was a lot of pseudo-science
arrayed around it. All the same fallacies and omissions and lack of
rigor of all the other fads that Americans surround themselves with.

Not that my reading experience means anything, but: you asked. -aem

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Krusty wrote:

> "Dana Carpender" > wrote
>
>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>
>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>
>>>
>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>

>>
>>
>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?

>
>
> Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> years.
>
> What else do you want to know.


Cite?

This suggests roots 3 million years back:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm

And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.

Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
we can talk about who's the idiot.

Dana
>
>

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Krusty wrote:

> "jombithedjinn" > wrote
>
>>You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
>>beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
>>that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.

>
>
> You're a ****ing idiot.
>
> Seriously.
>
> And you're totally wrong.
>
> Wrong, AND an idiot.
>
> Happy to Help.
>
>


You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big mouth?

Dana
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Dana Carpender wrote:
> Krusty wrote:
> > You're a ****ing idiot.
> > Seriously.
> > And you're totally wrong.
> > Wrong, AND an idiot.
> > Happy to Help.

>
> You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big mouth?
>
> Dana



Oops, someone accidentally wandered in here from the pro-wrestling
group.

http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...zR8hglMMGDfYZl
http://tinyurl.com/mym2n

P



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In article >,
Dana Carpender > wrote:

> Krusty wrote:
>
> > "Dana Carpender" > wrote
> >
> >>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>
> >>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
> >>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> >>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> >>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
> >>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> >>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?

> >
> >
> > Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> > years.
> >
> > What else do you want to know.

>
> Cite?
>
> This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>
> And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
>
> Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> we can talk about who's the idiot.
>



So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.


--
Stefan:
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In article .com>,
"Pushmi-Pullyu" > wrote:

> Dana Carpender wrote:
> > Krusty wrote:
> > > You're a ****ing idiot.
> > > Seriously.
> > > And you're totally wrong.
> > > Wrong, AND an idiot.
> > > Happy to Help.

> >
> > You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big mouth?
> >
> > Dana

>
>
> Oops, someone accidentally wandered in here from the pro-wrestling
> group.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...FwEzR8hglMMGDf
> YZl
> http://tinyurl.com/mym2n
>



You should also use Google to find out where this thread originated.
And to find out who the OP was. HTH.



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Lord Hatred wrote:

> In article >,
> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>
>
>>Krusty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
>>>years.
>>>
>>>What else do you want to know.

>>
>>Cite?
>>
>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>>
>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
>>
>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
>>

>
>
>
> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.



Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.

Dana

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In article > ,
Dana Carpender > wrote:

> Lord Hatred wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Krusty wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
> >>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> >>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> >>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
> >>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> >>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> >>>years.
> >>>
> >>>What else do you want to know.
> >>
> >>Cite?
> >>
> >>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> >>
> >>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> >>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> >>
> >>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> >>we can talk about who's the idiot.
> >>

> >
> >
> >
> > So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> > ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.

>
>
> Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
> clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
> narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
> overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
> claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
>



So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to the
origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary requirements?
You can't have it both ways.


--
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Lord Hatred wrote:
> In article >,
> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>
> > Krusty wrote:
> >
> > > "Dana Carpender" > wrote
> > >
> > >>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
> > >>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> > >>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> > >>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
> > >>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> > >>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> > > years.
> > >
> > > What else do you want to know.

> >
> > Cite?
> >
> > This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> >
> > And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> > to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> >
> > Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> > we can talk about who's the idiot.
> >

>
>
> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
>
>
> --
> Stefan:


No, she's right. (In the correct sense, not the poltical spectrum.) The
scientific community views Ergaster, Habilis, Neanderthalis and others
of the Homo genus as human, and counts them as human beings.



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Lord Hatred wrote:

> In article > ,
> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>
>
>>Lord Hatred wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Krusty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part of
>>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of roughly
>>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
>>>>>years.
>>>>>
>>>>>What else do you want to know.
>>>>
>>>>Cite?
>>>>
>>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>>>>
>>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
>>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
>>>>
>>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
>>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
>>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.

>>
>>
>>Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
>>clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
>>narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
>>overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
>>claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
>>

>
>
>
> So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to the
> origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
> homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary requirements?
> You can't have it both ways.



No, I'm unconvinced that 10,000 years -- maybe 500 generations -- is
long enough for evolution to have completely altered our nutritional
requirements. If grains and beans weren't essential for the first
190,000 years (and our forerunners for roughly 2 million years previous
to that), there's no reason why they should be essential now. If a diet
based on animal foods, vegetables, fruit (keeping in mind that modern
fruit is candy compared to wild fruit), nuts and seeds, and the like,
nourished our ancestors well for 190,000 years (and again, their
forebears for another 2 million years), there's no reason why it
shouldn't do so now.

Furthermore, I see evidence that a diet based on concentrated
carbohydrate foods is a good idea. Do a quick pubmed search on
"glycemic load," and see what turns up.

Dana

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jombithedjinn wrote:
> Krusty wrote:
> > "trijcomm" > wrote ...
> > > >That's really unfair, Janis. Where did you learn all this info....was
> > > the setup to one of your women's apartment wrestling videos some chick
> > >>in pantyhose reading an Atkins diet book?
> > >
> > > You should really look into that Atkins diet book ...

> >
> > Hardly, it's a "diet" for idiots.
> >
> > Get a biology degree and *really* learn about food.

>
> You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
> beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
> that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.


Well, regardless of what you think humans are "meant" to be eating, the
fact of the matter is that wheat, barley, and so forth have been
staples of human consumption for eons. In fact, the rise of human
civilization has been directly correlated with the successful
cultivation of these grains.

You might consider the fact that we humans have molars - teeth
specifically designed for grinding fiberous materials like *gasp*
grains; and the fact that we've had them for as long as we've existed
as a species. All of which indicates that, gee whiz, maybe the idea of
humans eating grains isn't so far out of left field as you're
suggesting.

> Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
> conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
> intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
> green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
> meant to eat wheat grass.


If we were not "meant" to be eating grains, we would not have teeth
specifically designed for chewing them. We wouldn't have enzymes
specifically designed for digesting them. We wouldn't have survived
and in fact *thrived* on them for thousands and thousands of years.

If you agree with the Adkins diet, good for you. If you start asking
doctors and nutritionists, some of them will agree with you - others
will not. But your assertion that humans are not "meant" to eat grains
is utter nonsense. Human anatomy says otherwise - as does human
history.

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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?



Dana Carpender wrote:

>
>
> Lord Hatred wrote:
>
>> In article > ,
>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Lord Hatred wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Krusty wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Dana Carpender" > wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been
>>>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>>>> the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>>>>>> indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
>>>>>>>>> roughly
>>>>>>>>> 50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low
>>>>>>>>> sugar)
>>>>>>>>> fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2
>>>>>> million years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What else do you want to know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cite?
>>>>>
>>>>> This suggests roots 3 million years back:
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>>>>>
>>>>> And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you
>>>>> want to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our
>>>>> existance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you
>>>>> do, we can talk about who's the idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
>>>> ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I
>>> was clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with
>>> the narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
>>> overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
>>> claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>> So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to
>> the origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
>> homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary
>> requirements? You can't have it both ways.

>
>
>
> No, I'm unconvinced that 10,000 years -- maybe 500 generations -- is
> long enough for evolution to have completely altered our nutritional
> requirements. If grains and beans weren't essential for the first
> 190,000 years (and our forerunners for roughly 2 million years previous
> to that), there's no reason why they should be essential now. If a diet
> based on animal foods, vegetables, fruit (keeping in mind that modern
> fruit is candy compared to wild fruit), nuts and seeds, and the like,
> nourished our ancestors well for 190,000 years (and again, their
> forebears for another 2 million years), there's no reason why it
> shouldn't do so now.
>
>


To add a quick cite; from a PBS site re evolution:

1. How long does evolution take?
Even though evolution is taking place all around us, for many
species the process operates so slowly that it is not observable except
over thousands or hundreds of thousands of years -- much too long to
witness in a human lifetime. There are cases in quickly reproducing life
forms like bacteria and fruit flies, however, where evolution can be
seen happening in a matter of weeks for the bacteria and many months for
the flies. In these cases the relatively large number of generations in
a given period of time is key, since evolutionary change occurs
incrementally from one generation to the next. All else being equal, the
more generations you have, the more quickly evolution happens.

Since human beings are not bacteria nor fruit flies, and tend to roughly
20 year generations, I'm leaning toward that
thousands-to-hundreds-of-thousands figure. Makes 10,000 years seem
damned puny.

Dana
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In article .com>,
wrote:

> Lord Hatred wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >
> > > Krusty wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dana Carpender" > wrote
> > > >
> > > >>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part
> > > >>>>of
> > > >>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> > > >>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> > > >>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
> > > >>>>roughly
> > > >>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> > > >>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> > > > years.
> > > >
> > > > What else do you want to know.
> > >
> > > Cite?
> > >
> > > This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> > >
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> > >
> > > And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> > > to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> > >
> > > Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> > > we can talk about who's the idiot.
> > >

> >
> >
> > So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> > ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stefan:

>
> No, she's right. (In the correct sense, not the poltical spectrum.) The
> scientific community views Ergaster, Habilis, Neanderthalis and others
> of the Homo genus as human, and counts them as human beings.




Some scientists will also argue that chimpanzees and gorillas should
be included in the Homo class due to the genetic similarities. I
wouldn't call them humans at all. As I stated before, you can't accept
evolution of a species without evolution within the species.

--
Stefan:
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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?



Shuurai wrote:

> jombithedjinn wrote:
>
>>Krusty wrote:
>>
>>>"trijcomm" > wrote ...
>>>
>>>>>That's really unfair, Janis. Where did you learn all this info....was
>>>>
>>>>the setup to one of your women's apartment wrestling videos some chick
>>>>
>>>>>in pantyhose reading an Atkins diet book?
>>>>
>>>>You should really look into that Atkins diet book ...
>>>
>>>Hardly, it's a "diet" for idiots.
>>>
>>>Get a biology degree and *really* learn about food.

>>
>>You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
>>beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
>>that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.

>
>
> Well, regardless of what you think humans are "meant" to be eating, the
> fact of the matter is that wheat, barley, and so forth have been
> staples of human consumption for eons.


Um, no. From dictionary.com, a definition of "eon"

1. An indefinitely long period of time; an age.
2. The longest division of geologic time, containing two or more eras.

10,000 years doesn't fit the definition.

In fact, the rise of human
> civilization has been directly correlated with the successful
> cultivation of these grains.


True.

>
> You might consider the fact that we humans have molars - teeth
> specifically designed for grinding fiberous materials like *gasp*
> grains;


Or vegetables and nuts. Cows have molars, they evolved to eat grass.
That they can use those molars to eat grains doesn't change that.


>
>>Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
>>conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
>>intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
>>green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
>>meant to eat wheat grass.

>
>
> If we were not "meant" to be eating grains, we would not have teeth
> specifically designed for chewing them.


We don't. See above.

We wouldn't have enzymes
> specifically designed for digesting them.


We don't. We do have carbohydrate digesting enzymes, but they're
equally applicable to fruits and vegetables.

We wouldn't have survived
> and in fact *thrived* on them for thousands and thousands of years.


Actually, skeletal evidence shows that when hunter-gatherers became
farmers, they got shorter, with weak bones and bad teeth, probably due
to the fact that grain phytates bind up minerals. Doesn't sound like
thriving, really.

>
> If you agree with the Adkins diet, good for you. If you start asking
> doctors and nutritionists, some of them will agree with you - others
> will not. But your assertion that humans are not "meant" to eat grains
> is utter nonsense. Human anatomy says otherwise - as does human
> history.


Beg to differ, except in that the word "meant" is meaningless. But we
did not evolve to eat a diet of grains and beans.

Dana


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Lord Hatred wrote:

> In article .com>,
> wrote:
>
>
>>Lord Hatred wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Krusty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part
>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
>>>>>>>>roughly
>>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
>>>>>years.
>>>>>
>>>>>What else do you want to know.
>>>>
>>>>Cite?
>>>>
>>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
>>>>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>>>>
>>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
>>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
>>>>
>>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
>>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
>>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Stefan:

>>
>>No, she's right. (In the correct sense, not the poltical spectrum.) The
>>scientific community views Ergaster, Habilis, Neanderthalis and others
>>of the Homo genus as human, and counts them as human beings.

>
>
>
>
> Some scientists will also argue that chimpanzees and gorillas should
> be included in the Homo class due to the genetic similarities. I
> wouldn't call them humans at all. As I stated before, you can't accept
> evolution of a species without evolution within the species.
>


I do. Now, compare 2-3 million years with 10,000 years.

Dana
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>
> Just a note: trimming all the cross posting out of the headers may
> lead to a more reasoned discussion.
>
> Susan <just sayinzall>
>


Bite me

--
----------------------------------==
Double T the legally blind referee
----------------------------------==
Like you read the bullshit down here

mWO 4 a long time baby

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In article >,
Dana Carpender > wrote:

> Lord Hatred wrote:
>
> > In article > ,
> > Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Lord Hatred wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> >>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Krusty wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part
> >>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> >>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> >>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
> >>>>>>>>roughly
> >>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> >>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> >>>>>years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What else do you want to know.
> >>>>
> >>>>Cite?
> >>>>
> >>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> >>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> >>>>
> >>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> >>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> >>>>
> >>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> >>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> >>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
> >>
> >>
> >>Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
> >>clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
> >>narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
> >>overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
> >>claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
> >>

> >
> >
> >
> > So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to the
> > origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
> > homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary requirements?
> > You can't have it both ways.

>
>
> No, I'm unconvinced that 10,000 years -- maybe 500 generations -- is
> long enough for evolution to have completely altered our nutritional
> requirements. If grains and beans weren't essential for the first
> 190,000 years (and our forerunners for roughly 2 million years previous
> to that), there's no reason why they should be essential now. If a diet
> based on animal foods, vegetables, fruit (keeping in mind that modern
> fruit is candy compared to wild fruit), nuts and seeds, and the like,
> nourished our ancestors well for 190,000 years (and again, their
> forebears for another 2 million years), there's no reason why it
> shouldn't do so now.



What about cooking meat? If you're going to go this route then you
should go all the way with your argument. Early man did not cook meat.
Thus, it is unnecessary for us to do so now. It's actually unhealthy to
do so! The human body wasn't designed to eat cooked meat. Also. hell,
why eat every day? They didn't! They went days without eating. We should
too! It's healthy with out current lifestyles to not eat everyday. So
here's what you do. Go to the local wooded lands, pick a few random
berries. Bring them home. Feast on them for a good day or two. Then go
out and kill yourself a deer. Drag it back home. Use a sharp rock to cut
it open. Don't use knives. Early man didn't use them. They used rocks.
We weren't meant to use knives. Use the sharp rock to ct open that deer.
Cut off a slab and eat it. Yum. Feel those all natural life giving
juices fill your mouth! Feel them dribbling down your chin. This is what
man was meant to do! Be covered in blood. Eat nothing but that deer
until it goes rancid. Then wait a few days. Start over.

> Furthermore, I see evidence that a diet based on concentrated
> carbohydrate foods is a good idea. Do a quick pubmed search on
> "glycemic load," and see what turns up.


Bah Gawd! Eating too many carbs is bad for you! Somebody alert the
media! This might cause widespread obesity and other health disorders!
I'm glad you saved me! I almost ate this entire bag of sugar and drank
this nice thick glass of flour and water!


--
Stefan:
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> > Well, regardless of what you think humans are "meant" to be eating, the
> > fact of the matter is that wheat, barley, and so forth have been
> > staples of human consumption for eons.

>
> Um, no. From dictionary.com, a definition of "eon"
>
> 1. An indefinitely long period of time; an age.
> 2. The longest division of geologic time, containing two or more eras.
>
> 10,000 years doesn't fit the definition.


Well, gee whiz you got me on the "eon" thing... now how in the hell is
that relevant to the point of the discussion?

But just to make you happy:
Well, regardless of what you think humans are "meant" to be eating, the
fact of the matter is that wheat, barley, and so forth have been
staples of human consumption for a really, really gosh darn long time.


> In fact, the rise of human
> > civilization has been directly correlated with the successful
> > cultivation of these grains.

>
> True.
>
> >
> > You might consider the fact that we humans have molars - teeth
> > specifically designed for grinding fiberous materials like *gasp*
> > grains;

>
> Or vegetables and nuts. Cows have molars, they evolved to eat grass.
> That they can use those molars to eat grains doesn't change that.


Molars are more specialized towards grains than veggies - though nuts
are certainly a possibility.

> >>Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
> >>conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
> >>intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
> >>green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
> >>meant to eat wheat grass.

> >
> >
> > If we were not "meant" to be eating grains, we would not have teeth
> > specifically designed for chewing them.

>
> We don't. See above.


Even if we take what you wrote above as a given, all we could conclude
is that they're designed for veggies, nuts, grains - or some
combination of all.

> We wouldn't have enzymes
> > specifically designed for digesting them.

>
> We don't. We do have carbohydrate digesting enzymes, but they're
> equally applicable to fruits and vegetables.


So given that we have teeth and digestive systems that work with
fruits, veggies, AND grains, how do you conclude that we are not meant
to eat grains?

> We wouldn't have survived
> > and in fact *thrived* on them for thousands and thousands of years.

>
> Actually, skeletal evidence shows that when hunter-gatherers became
> farmers, they got shorter, with weak bones and bad teeth, probably due
> to the fact that grain phytates bind up minerals. Doesn't sound like
> thriving, really.


Human populations absolutely skyrocketed around grains - that's what
"thriving" means. And the decrease in height, weakened bones and so
forth have *also* been explained by population conditions.

> > If you agree with the Adkins diet, good for you. If you start asking
> > doctors and nutritionists, some of them will agree with you - others
> > will not. But your assertion that humans are not "meant" to eat grains
> > is utter nonsense. Human anatomy says otherwise - as does human
> > history.

>
> Beg to differ, except in that the word "meant" is meaningless. But we
> did not evolve to eat a diet of grains and beans.


We evolved to eat a widely varied diet that included grains and beans.

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Lord Hatred wrote:

> In article >,
> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>
>
>>Lord Hatred wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article > ,
>>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lord Hatred wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article >,
>>>>>Dana Carpender > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Krusty wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part
>>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
>>>>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
>>>>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
>>>>>>>>>>roughly
>>>>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
>>>>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
>>>>>>>years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What else do you want to know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cite?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
>>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
>>>>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
>>>>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
>>>>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
>>>>clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
>>>>narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
>>>>overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
>>>>claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to the
>>>origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
>>>homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary requirements?
>>>You can't have it both ways.

>>
>>
>>No, I'm unconvinced that 10,000 years -- maybe 500 generations -- is
>>long enough for evolution to have completely altered our nutritional
>>requirements. If grains and beans weren't essential for the first
>>190,000 years (and our forerunners for roughly 2 million years previous
>>to that), there's no reason why they should be essential now. If a diet
>>based on animal foods, vegetables, fruit (keeping in mind that modern
>>fruit is candy compared to wild fruit), nuts and seeds, and the like,
>>nourished our ancestors well for 190,000 years (and again, their
>>forebears for another 2 million years), there's no reason why it
>>shouldn't do so now.

>
>
>
> What about cooking meat? If you're going to go this route then you
> should go all the way with your argument. Early man did not cook meat.
> Thus, it is unnecessary for us to do so now.


True enough. And I rather like carpaccio.

It's actually unhealthy to
> do so! The human body wasn't designed to eat cooked meat. Also. hell,
> why eat every day? They didn't!


I don't know that we know that. Indeed, I've read studies indicating
that the average hunter-gatherer ate a diet that compared pretty well,
calorically speaking, with the average non-impoverished citizen of a
third world country, and higher in calories than your average
impoverished member of first-world countries.

They went days without eating.

Cite?

We should
> too! It's healthy with out current lifestyles to not eat everyday. So
> here's what you do. Go to the local wooded lands, pick a few random
> berries. Bring them home. Feast on them for a good day or two. Then go
> out and kill yourself a deer. Drag it back home. Use a sharp rock to cut
> it open. Don't use knives. Early man didn't use them. They used rocks.
> We weren't meant to use knives. Use the sharp rock to ct open that deer.
> Cut off a slab and eat it. Yum. Feel those all natural life giving
> juices fill your mouth! Feel them dribbling down your chin. This is what
> man was meant to do! Be covered in blood. Eat nothing but that deer
> until it goes rancid.


Funny you should mention it. I have venison in the fridge right now.
Also grass-fed beef.

>>Furthermore, I see evidence that a diet based on concentrated
>>carbohydrate foods is a good idea. Do a quick pubmed search on
>>"glycemic load," and see what turns up.

>
>
> Bah Gawd! Eating too many carbs is bad for you! Somebody alert the
> media! This might cause widespread obesity and other health disorders!
> I'm glad you saved me! I almost ate this entire bag of sugar and drank
> this nice thick glass of flour and water!


Probably not. But have you eaten a plate of pasta recently? Same
thing, nutritionally speaking.

But if you agree that eating a high glycemic load is a bad idea, what
the hell are you arguing about?

Dana


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

In article >,
Dana Carpender > wrote:

> Lord Hatred wrote:
>
> > In article .com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Lord Hatred wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> >>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Krusty wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been part
> >>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> >>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> >>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
> >>>>>>>>roughly
> >>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> >>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> >>>>>years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What else do you want to know.
> >>>>
> >>>>Cite?
> >>>>
> >>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> >>>>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> >>>>
> >>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you want
> >>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> >>>>
> >>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> >>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> >>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Stefan:
> >>
> >>No, she's right. (In the correct sense, not the poltical spectrum.) The
> >>scientific community views Ergaster, Habilis, Neanderthalis and others
> >>of the Homo genus as human, and counts them as human beings.

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Some scientists will also argue that chimpanzees and gorillas should
> > be included in the Homo class due to the genetic similarities. I
> > wouldn't call them humans at all. As I stated before, you can't accept
> > evolution of a species without evolution within the species.
> >

>
> I do. Now, compare 2-3 million years with 10,000 years.
>



Ok. Now add in rapidly advanced species migration and the environment
adaptations necessary, the ability to reason, religion, bacterial
evolution (which you admitted can be rapid), and evolution within the
species on a basic level to combat the bacterial evolution. Today's
modern man simply would NOT be able to digest the foods from the diet of
early man. Even going back so far as the middle ages. We wouldn't be
bale to eat that diet. Why? Because we've learned to process our foods
for consumption. Our bodies adapted to and for that change. Hell, you
even admitted that we have an enzyme used to consume grains. Your
attempt at deflecting the point falls flat because it simply ignores
what it can do. You are cherry picking simply so you can guard your
territory (ie, in this case, your chosen diet). That is intellectually
fraudulent.



--
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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

In article >,
Dana Carpender > wrote:

> Lord Hatred wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Lord Hatred wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article > ,
> >>> Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Lord Hatred wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article >,
> >>>>>Dana Carpender > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Krusty wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Dana Carpender wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>And yeah, since grains and beans in any quantity have only been
> >>>>>>>>>>part
> >>>>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>>the human diet for 10,000 of the 2 million or more years we've been
> >>>>>>>>>>around, it's really hard to see how they're essential. Research
> >>>>>>>>>>indicates that the hunter/gatherer diet generally consisted of
> >>>>>>>>>>roughly
> >>>>>>>>>>50%-60% animal food, and the rest vegetables, wild (very low sugar)
> >>>>>>>>>>fruit in season, and nuts and seeds. Sounds about like my diet.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>You know nothing about evolution, either.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Nice assertion. Care to back it up?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Yeah you ****ing idiot. Human Beings haven't been around for 2 million
> >>>>>>>years.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>What else do you want to know.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Cite?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>This suggests roots 3 million years back:
> >>>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/231442.stm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>And we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years. If you
> >>>>>>want
> >>>>>>to go by that, we were still hunter-gatherers for 80% of our existance.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Or do you believe the world was created in 4004 BC? Because if you do,
> >>>>>>we can talk about who's the idiot.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So you are calling Krusty an idiot by agreeing that you made an
> >>>>>ignorant statement? Good job. I think that's a new one on UseNet.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Nope. It's a question of what you want to call "human history." I was
> >>>>clarifying, and making the point that even if you want to go with the
> >>>>narrowest possible definition, we still, as a species, have an
> >>>>overwhelming history of eating a hunter-gatherer diet, which makes
> >>>>claims that grains and beans are essential for human health ridiculous.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So you're saying you approve of using evolution as it pertains to the
> >>>origin of homosapien but against the usage of the evolution of
> >>>homosapien as a creature itself as it pertains to dietary requirements?
> >>>You can't have it both ways.
> >>
> >>
> >>No, I'm unconvinced that 10,000 years -- maybe 500 generations -- is
> >>long enough for evolution to have completely altered our nutritional
> >>requirements. If grains and beans weren't essential for the first
> >>190,000 years (and our forerunners for roughly 2 million years previous
> >>to that), there's no reason why they should be essential now. If a diet
> >>based on animal foods, vegetables, fruit (keeping in mind that modern
> >>fruit is candy compared to wild fruit), nuts and seeds, and the like,
> >>nourished our ancestors well for 190,000 years (and again, their
> >>forebears for another 2 million years), there's no reason why it
> >>shouldn't do so now.

> >
> >
> >
> > What about cooking meat? If you're going to go this route then you
> > should go all the way with your argument. Early man did not cook meat.
> > Thus, it is unnecessary for us to do so now.

>
> True enough. And I rather like carpaccio.
>
> It's actually unhealthy to
> > do so! The human body wasn't designed to eat cooked meat. Also. hell,
> > why eat every day? They didn't!

>
> I don't know that we know that. Indeed, I've read studies indicating
> that the average hunter-gatherer ate a diet that compared pretty well,
> calorically speaking, with the average non-impoverished citizen of a
> third world country, and higher in calories than your average
> impoverished member of first-world countries.
>
> They went days without eating.
>
> Cite?
>


Nothing on hand. Science texts and articles I have read.

> We should
> > too! It's healthy with out current lifestyles to not eat everyday. So
> > here's what you do. Go to the local wooded lands, pick a few random
> > berries. Bring them home. Feast on them for a good day or two. Then go
> > out and kill yourself a deer. Drag it back home. Use a sharp rock to cut
> > it open. Don't use knives. Early man didn't use them. They used rocks.
> > We weren't meant to use knives. Use the sharp rock to ct open that deer.
> > Cut off a slab and eat it. Yum. Feel those all natural life giving
> > juices fill your mouth! Feel them dribbling down your chin. This is what
> > man was meant to do! Be covered in blood. Eat nothing but that deer
> > until it goes rancid.

>
> Funny you should mention it. I have venison in the fridge right now.
> Also grass-fed beef.
>


The fridge? Early man didn't use freon to cool their meat. That is
poisonous.

> >>Furthermore, I see evidence that a diet based on concentrated
> >>carbohydrate foods is a good idea. Do a quick pubmed search on
> >>"glycemic load," and see what turns up.

> >
> >
> > Bah Gawd! Eating too many carbs is bad for you! Somebody alert the
> > media! This might cause widespread obesity and other health disorders!
> > I'm glad you saved me! I almost ate this entire bag of sugar and drank
> > this nice thick glass of flour and water!

>
> Probably not. But have you eaten a plate of pasta recently? Same
> thing, nutritionally speaking.
>
> But if you agree that eating a high glycemic load is a bad idea, what
> the hell are you arguing about?
>



You seem to think this is an "Either/Or" argument.



--
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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

jombithedjinn wrote:

>
> You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
> beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
> that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.
>
> Typical diets are inferior to the atkins diet strictly because the
> conventional diets would have people eat foods that nature never
> intended for human beings to eat. Humans were meant to eat meat, eggs,
> green leafy vegetables, and certain berries. They were certainly not
> meant to eat wheat grass.


Variety is the spice of life. Humans are carnivores. It means that we are
adaptable. We cane at different foods, depending on the season.

But as for the thread.... Pizza for crying out loud. It is a way to use up
leftovers, a little bread dough, some tomato sauce , bits and pieces of
veggies, meats and cheese. It sure as heck isn't fine dining.


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

Dave Smith wrote:

> j
>
> Variety is the spice of life. Humans are carnivores. It means that we are
> adaptable. We cane at different foods, depending on the season.
>
> But as for the thread.... Pizza for crying out loud. It is a way to use up
> leftovers, a little bread dough, some tomato sauce , bits and pieces of
> veggies, meats and cheese. It sure as heck isn't fine dining.


Oops..... in response to the topic. I am allergic to a lot of the things in
pizza and always thought the perfect beverage to accompany it was beer, but am
also allergic to hops, malt and yeast. I can tolerate beer or pizza but not
both together. I don't order pizzas. I rarely eat it. There is a Pizza Hut
next to the grocery store where I do a lot of my shopping, and it always seems
to be busy.


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

"Pushmi-Pullyu" > wrote
> Dana Carpender wrote:
>> Krusty wrote:
>> > You're a ****ing idiot.
>> > Seriously.
>> > And you're totally wrong.
>> > Wrong, AND an idiot.
>> > Happy to Help.

>>
>> You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big
>> mouth?
>>
>> Dana

>
>
> Oops, someone accidentally wandered in here from the pro-wrestling
> group.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...zR8hglMMGDfYZl
> http://tinyurl.com/mym2n


I started the thread, Captain Scientician.

Hey, next time the clue-bus stops by, get on board.




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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

"Dana Carpender" > wrote
> we've been homo sapiens for an estimated 200,000 years.


First sane thing you've said this entire thread.


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

"Dana Carpender" > wrote...
> Krusty wrote:
>> "jombithedjinn" > wrote
>>
>>>You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
>>>beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
>>>that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.

>>
>>
>> You're a ****ing idiot.
>>
>> Seriously.
>>
>> And you're totally wrong.
>>
>> Wrong, AND an idiot.
>>
>> Happy to Help.

>
> You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big
> mouth?
>
> Dana


What "big mouth". The person who responded to me made up an assertion that I
never made, then based an entire line of reasoning on it.

I said *nothing* about what people were "meant" to eat. I never made the
assertion that "human beings were meant to eat grass like wheat and barley".

So, given the above, then yeah, the guy's a ****ing idiot AND wrong.

How's that? Douchebag.


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

"Dave Smith" > wrote
> Humans are carnivores.


Incorrect. Technically "omnivores".


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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?


Dana Carpender wrote:
> Krusty wrote:
>
> > "jombithedjinn" > wrote
> >
> >>You obviously know nothing about nutrition. Do you REALLY think human
> >>beings were truly meant to eat grass like wheat and barley? I'm sure
> >>that you do, you're just the type to be so undereducated.

> >
> >
> > You're a ****ing idiot.
> >
> > Seriously.
> >
> > And you're totally wrong.
> >
> > Wrong, AND an idiot.
> >
> > Happy to Help.
> >
> >

>
> You're long on vitriol and short on facts. Care to back up your big mouth?
>
> Dana


Hi Dana. Carmen here, one of the old-timers in ASDL-C. Wanted to take
a moment to say that this sort of quasi-cultist "all-or-nothing" thread
is what helped get Atkins tagged as a fad. It helped it appeal to the
"quick fix" crowd, and we saw them swell this newsgroup to amazing
traffic flow stats. As you can see now, ASDL-C is getting a mere
trickle of posts nowadays, and most old-timers have quietly faded away.
I pop my head in every once in a while, but it gets old seeing the
same rigidity exhibiting itself. For those of us who've adapted to a
low carb diet for the longterm it's usually for health reasons, and we
end up learning that the "carbs are evil" mantra that got us started
isn't quite true. For people with functional endocrine systems, who
live healthy lifestyles and eat an overall healthy diet carbs are no
big deal, just more fuel for the furnace. For diabetics carbs are a
firewalk, you find out what your body likes and functions well on - for
me it's things like lentils and AllBran w/Extra Fiber - and let it have
those carbs.

When you go down the path of "people shouldn't eat carbs" and then
start trying to justify it by cherry-picking data (and you have been,
I've been watching the thread) it doesn't help legitimize low-carb as
an option for those who need it. It just makes low carb (and by
extension low carbers) look whacked-out.

Carmen

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Default Seriously...do people eat Pizza Hut in real life?

"Carmen" > wrote
> Hi Dana. Carmen here, one of the old-timers in ASDL-C. Wanted to take
> a moment to say that this sort of quasi-cultist "all-or-nothing" thread
> is what helped get Atkins tagged as a fad. It helped it appeal to the
> "quick fix" crowd, and we saw them swell this newsgroup to amazing
> traffic flow stats. As you can see now, ASDL-C is getting a mere
> trickle of posts nowadays, and most old-timers have quietly faded away.
> I pop my head in every once in a while, but it gets old seeing the
> same rigidity exhibiting itself. For those of us who've adapted to a
> low carb diet for the longterm it's usually for health reasons, and we
> end up learning that the "carbs are evil" mantra that got us started
> isn't quite true. For people with functional endocrine systems, who
> live healthy lifestyles and eat an overall healthy diet carbs are no
> big deal, just more fuel for the furnace. For diabetics carbs are a
> firewalk, you find out what your body likes and functions well on - for
> me it's things like lentils and AllBran w/Extra Fiber - and let it have
> those carbs.
>
> When you go down the path of "people shouldn't eat carbs" and then
> start trying to justify it by cherry-picking data (and you have been,
> I've been watching the thread) it doesn't help legitimize low-carb as
> an option for those who need it. It just makes low carb (and by
> extension low carbers) look whacked-out.
>
> Carmen


What a fantastic post.


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