~patches~ wrote:
> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning? You
> know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have to
> buy something special?


Regular Bernzomatic torch works just fine. (so does an electric heat gun)

Bob

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> to buy something special?

Yep. Same thing.

I had one of those stupid little ones they sell for too much money in
kitchen stores for creme brulee. Oh brother. You could wave that
little thing for hours before the sugar carmelized. It was the pitts
especially if you were doing several little ones.

Went to the hardware and got a regular torch. heaven. Fast, hot,
cheaper that than little thing too. Same fuel, bigger canister.

marcella

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning? You
> know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have to buy
> something special?

I've seen the old plumbing/soldering torches used in restaurants for creme
brulee ... I personally have not used 'em for this purpose.

Bob

Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
to buy something special?

~patches~ wrote:

> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> to buy something special?

For browning what? They do a great job on caramelizing the tops of Creme
Brulee, and at a fraction of the cost of a special kitchen model.

~patches~ wrote:
>
> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> to buy something special?

Food-grade propane is odorless.
If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> to buy something special?

Yes,

and

No.

A regular torch from the hardware store is what I use!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning? You
> > know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have to
> > buy something special?
>
>
> Regular Bernzomatic torch works just fine. (so does an electric heat gun)
>
> Bob

Tsk!

Elitist!

;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Marcella Peek > wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > to buy something special?
>
> Yep. Same thing.
>
> I had one of those stupid little ones they sell for too much money in
> kitchen stores for creme brulee. Oh brother. You could wave that
> little thing for hours before the sugar carmelized. It was the pitts
> especially if you were doing several little ones.
>
> Went to the hardware and got a regular torch. heaven. Fast, hot,
> cheaper that than little thing too. Same fuel, bigger canister.
>
> marcella

<lol>

I just reserve it for the kitchen so it stays cleaner. :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article > ,
"Bob" > wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning? You
> > know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have to buy
> > something special?
>
> I've seen the old plumbing/soldering torches used in restaurants for creme
> brulee ... I personally have not used 'em for this purpose.
>
> Bob
>
>

Give it a shot dear!

I also use mine for singing pinfeathers when I process my own meat birds.

My kitchen tool drawer also contains a hacksaw that is clean and
reserved for cutting bones to size for the pot.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
> >
> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > to buy something special?
>
> Food-grade propane is odorless.
> If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

Weird.

My propane torch from the hardware store does not have any smell.....

At all.

Works for me and always has.
Worked for Julia Childs too.

<shrugs>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Mark Thorson wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
> >
> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > to buy something special?
>
> Food-grade propane is odorless.
> If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

WTF ?????
Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?


I confess that I was curious. I searched for close to an hour, looking up
information about butane and propane torches, cooking sites with information
about using torches to caramelize sugar. I could not find a single reference
to food grade propane (or butane), and various cooking sites said to use
broiler, butane kitchen torch, welders propane torch or whatever was handy.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 14:42:02 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Marcella Peek > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> ~patches~ > wrote:
>>
>> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>> > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>> > to buy something special?
>>
>> Yep. Same thing.
>>
>> I had one of those stupid little ones they sell for too much money in
>> kitchen stores for creme brulee. Oh brother. You could wave that
>> little thing for hours before the sugar carmelized. It was the pitts
>> especially if you were doing several little ones.
>>
>> Went to the hardware and got a regular torch. heaven. Fast, hot,
>> cheaper that than little thing too. Same fuel, bigger canister.
>>
>> marcella
>
><lol>
>
>I just reserve it for the kitchen so it stays cleaner. :-)

Elitist!


jim

In article >,
ensenadajim > wrote:

> On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 14:42:02 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Marcella Peek > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> ~patches~ > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> >> > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> >> > to buy something special?
> >>
> >> Yep. Same thing.
> >>
> >> I had one of those stupid little ones they sell for too much money in
> >> kitchen stores for creme brulee. Oh brother. You could wave that
> >> little thing for hours before the sugar carmelized. It was the pitts
> >> especially if you were doing several little ones.
> >>
> >> Went to the hardware and got a regular torch. heaven. Fast, hot,
> >> cheaper that than little thing too. Same fuel, bigger canister.
> >>
> >> marcella
> >
> ><lol>
> >
> >I just reserve it for the kitchen so it stays cleaner. :-)
>
> Elitist!
>
>
> jim
>

;-D
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > ~patches~ wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > > to buy something special?
> >
> > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
> WTF ?????
> Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?
>
>
> I confess that I was curious. I searched for close to an hour, looking up
> information about butane and propane torches, cooking sites with information
> about using torches to caramelize sugar. I could not find a single reference
> to food grade propane (or butane), and various cooking sites said to use
> broiler, butane kitchen torch, welders propane torch or whatever was handy.
>

You're a braver person than I am jellie bean....

I blew it off. ;-)

Watched too many cooking shows on the food channel with mom to believe
it for even a second!!!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Mark Thorson wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>>You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>>to buy something special?
>
>
> Food-grade propane is odorless.
> If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

You've got to be kidding here.

In all the restos and catering places I've been not one
has ever used anything other than plain old propane.
When they're not using them on the food they use them
to solder plumbing joints.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > ~patches~ wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > > to buy something special?
> >
> > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
> WTF ?????
> Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?
>
> I confess that I was curious. I searched for close to an hour, looking up
> information about butane and propane torches, cooking sites with information
> about using torches to caramelize sugar. I could not find a single reference
> to food grade propane (or butane), and various cooking sites said to use
> broiler, butane kitchen torch, welders propane torch or whatever was handy.

Trying using Google. Here's at least one place
that refers to odorless/food-grade propane
(though not for carmelizing sugar):

http://www.oilcn.com/Detail_Offer.aspx?id=14145

Scroll down for the English version.

Mark Thorson wrote:

>
> > > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
> >
> > WTF ?????
> > Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?
> >
> > I confess that I was curious. I searched for close to an hour, looking up
> > information about butane and propane torches, cooking sites with information
> > about using torches to caramelize sugar. I could not find a single reference
> > to food grade propane (or butane), and various cooking sites said to use
> > broiler, butane kitchen torch, welders propane torch or whatever was handy.
>
> Trying using Google. Here's at least one place
> that refers to odorless/food-grade propane
> (though not for carmelizing sugar):
>
> http://www.oilcn.com/Detail_Offer.aspx?id=14145
>
> Scroll down for the English version.

At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese, and appears to have
something to do with someone tendering out a project. For all I know it could be
the Chinese version of the Nigerian scam.

I found lots that said to use butane, propane, plumbers blow torch or whatever you
have handy. You scrambled to try to find one to support your food grade propane
suggestion and the best you could do was some obscure Chinese document that also
involves a compressor.

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for
> browning? You know, the propane torches you can buy at the
> hardware or do I have to buy something special?

Yes.

MoM

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese,
> and appears to have something to do with someone tendering out
> a project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of
> the Nigerian scam.

Huh? It's accompanied by a full English translation.
You do read English, right?

> I found lots that said to use butane, propane, plumbers
> blow torch or whatever you have handy. You scrambled to
> try to find one to support your food grade propane
> suggestion and the best you could do was some obscure
> Chinese document that also involves a compressor.

I didn't say it was the best, and I certainly didn't
"scramble" for it, whatever that means. Here's three more
that mention "food grade propane" (do a text search to
skip to the places where it is mentioned):

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,066,350

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,361,814

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,610,343

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> I believe these references are talking about using the propane
> and butane as a solvent for food products; they're not actually
> using the propane as a fuel.

Dave seemed to be questioning whether there even
was such a thing as "food grade propane".
I think that question is completely settled.

> I would thnk it's safe to use any propane, butane, or
> natural gas, scented or not, for carmelizing sugar.

Note that a warning scent is not the only feature
that distinguishes between a fuel-grade and food-grade
product. Gases derived from petroleum may be
contaminated with lightweight aromatic compounds
such as napthalene ("aromatic" in the sense of
having benzene-type ring systems, not necessarily
anything with an odor). Many aromatics are
carcinogens. With a propane that meets regulatory
standards for a food-grade product, you can be
sure that these contaminants are not present.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> > At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese,
> > and appears to have something to do with someone tendering out
> > a project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of
> > the Nigerian scam.
>
> Huh? It's accompanied by a full English translation.
> You do read English, right?

Yes, I read English. Do you? Or is your use of language limited to entering words in Google searches and then text searches for the appearance of word combinations?
If you are going to cite a web page to support something you calmed you really should read it to see if t has anything at all to do with what we were talking about.
In case you had not noticed, none of the pages that you cited had anything at all to do with the use of propane torches for caramelizing sugar. For the benefit of
those who didn't bother to check your link, here is a cut and paste of the English portion of it:


Equipment Requirements:
Equipment must use propane, butane or iso-butane as an edible oil solvent. We would initially be interested in three unit sizes:
1.) a piloting unit that we could use in the lab with a capacity of about 50lbs.
2.) a commercial unit with a capacity of about 30 tons
3.) a commercial unit with a capacity of about 100 tons
4.) We would prefer that all units to be stainless steel / food grade, but we
would also be interested in units make of carbon steel.
5.) We would be interested in receiving an immediate price quote in US$.
6.) We presently have toll processing business that could be booked
for these units as soon as we could get them up and running.
7.) Is it possible to get some photographs of this equip. and some
basics specifications as to size, weight and scale for each unit.
Also space requirements for unit's operation and set up.
8.) Can a standardized protocol be written in English both for the
operation and maintenance of the units?
9.) How many operators per shift are required to run a unit?
10.)How skilled are the operators?
11.)Does the unit fully desolventize the separated oil or meal during
a desolventizing phase of the extraction cycle? If desolventizing
does not occur in the unit itself, then what is the protocol for
desolventizing after extraction.
12.) Is there a unit now functioning in China that runs on propane (food grade) alone - not a mix of propane / butane or butane only.
13.) We need a unit that can reliably run on odorless / food grade propane
at ambient temperature and low pressure. What are the temperature and pressure ranges for this equipment?
14.) The energy requirements for running the unit.
15.) The type and kind of energy used by the unit
16.) Does the unit price include a compressor? If so what type of compressor is specified?
17.) How is heat introduced to the unit? Is a heating element such as a boiler inlcuded with the equip.
and is it reflected in the price quote?
18.) If the desolventizing phase of the extraction cycle is performed outside of the unit is equipment
for same included for the set up / installation and is it included in the price.
19.) Where in China is this equip. manufactured and where is the closest sea port for shipping same.

Pray tell..... where does it say anything about using food grade propane for caramelizing?

>
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,066,350
>
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,361,814
>
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,610,343

Yes, these three versions of the same thing deal with the use of food grade propane as a solvent in the in the process of extracting cocoa fat from cocoa mass and has
nothing to do with using food grade propane for caramelizing sugar. For crying out loud, if you are going to cite a web source to help prove your point you should at
least read it and ensure that it has something to do with the issue you are discussing and not just the simple appearance of the words you used.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> > I believe these references are talking about using the propane
> > and butane as a solvent for food products; they're not actually
> > using the propane as a fuel.
>
> Dave seemed to be questioning whether there even
> was such a thing as "food grade propane".
> I think that question is completely settled.

No. This Dave was questioning where you came up with the nonsense
about using food grade propane for caramelizing sugar. The OP had
asked a legitimate question about using the type of propane torch
available in hardware stores for caramelizing, and you replied
"Food-grade propane is odourless. If it has an odour, don't use it
for food." which is utter nonsense since nobody was talking about a
process that involved eating the gas, just using it for heat.


>
>
> > I would thnk it's safe to use any propane, butane, or
> > natural gas, scented or not, for carmelizing sugar.
>
> Note that a warning scent is not the only feature
> that distinguishes between a fuel-grade and food-grade
> product. Gases derived from petroleum may be
> contaminated with lightweight aromatic compounds
> such as napthalene ("aromatic" in the sense of
> having benzene-type ring systems, not necessarily
> anything with an odor). Many aromatics are
> carcinogens. With a propane that meets regulatory
> standards for a food-grade product, you can be
> sure that these contaminants are not present.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Note that a warning scent is not the only feature
> that distinguishes between a fuel-grade and food-grade
> product. Gases derived from petroleum may be
> contaminated with lightweight aromatic compounds
> such as napthalene ("aromatic" in the sense of
> having benzene-type ring systems, not necessarily
> anything with an odor). Many aromatics are
> carcinogens. With a propane that meets regulatory
> standards for a food-grade product, you can be
> sure that these contaminants are not present.

Do you know of any health and safety codes that
prohibit use of non food grade propane? Without
that, this would be of no concern to me.

When you breath exhaust fumes from a car,
even at low concentrations when walking down the
street, you're being exposed to carcinogens too.
I don't know of a way to attain zero exposure
to any and all carcinogens, which seems to
be your criteria here.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> > I believe these references are talking about using the propane
> > and butane as a solvent for food products; they're not actually
> > using the propane as a fuel.
>
> Dave seemed to be questioning whether there even
> was such a thing as "food grade propane".
> I think that question is completely settled.
>
> > I would thnk it's safe to use any propane, butane, or
> > natural gas, scented or not, for carmelizing sugar.
>
> Note that a warning scent is not the only feature
> that distinguishes between a fuel-grade and food-grade
> product. Gases derived from petroleum may be
> contaminated with lightweight aromatic compounds
> such as napthalene ("aromatic" in the sense of
> having benzene-type ring systems, not necessarily
> anything with an odor). Many aromatics are
> carcinogens. With a propane that meets regulatory
> standards for a food-grade product, you can be
> sure that these contaminants are not present.

And how much of those *flammable* odorants and impurities do you think
make it through the 2500 F flame on the front of the torch and get stuck
to the food?

Isaac

Dave Smith wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > ~patches~ wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > > to buy something special?
> >
> > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
> WTF ?????
> Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?

Ain't ya ever heard of food-grade electricity?

Mark Thorson wrote:
> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>>You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>>to buy something special?
>
>
> Food-grade propane is odorless.
> If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

Don't think there is such a thing. I think both propane and nat gas must
include an odorant (usually methyl mercaptan).

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > Dave seemed to be questioning whether there even
> > was such a thing as "food grade propane".
> > I think that question is completely settled.
>
> No. This Dave was questioning where you came up with the nonsense
> about using food grade propane for caramelizing sugar.

May I remind you of your earlier words.
You know seem to be back-pedalling.

> WTF ?????
> Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?

You also said this, which seemed to reject the
evidence of a website for no better reason than
you didn't scroll down to the English version
of the text (as I had instructed):

> At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese,
> and appears to have something to do with someone tendering out
> a project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of
> the Nigerian scam.

I don't know what you meant by the "Nigerian scam"
comment, but it sure seemed like you were rejecting
the evidence of the website for reasons that had
nothing to do with carmelizing sugar.

You'll have to try better than that if you want
to wiggle out of this one.

Isaac Wingfield wrote:
>
> And how much of those *flammable* odorants and impurities
> do you think make it through the 2500 F flame on the front
> of the torch and get stuck to the food?

Lots, especially the aromatics. Propane is
a linear chain only three carbon atoms long.
Combustion initiates from the ends, and
propane is mostly end.

Aromatics are rings (although they also may
have stubs sticking out of the rings).
They can burn in a flame, but they won't burn
nearly so readily as propane. The optimal
conditions for burning propane are not sufficient
for efficient burning of aromatics.

A flame front is not some magic thing that
completely burns every flammable molecule that
passes through it. If such were the case,
it would not be possible to get soot from
a gas flame. In fact, the opposite is true.
The vast majority of all carbon black (lampblack),
which is an industrial commodity manufactured
in huge amounts for coloring ink, plastics,
car tires, etc., comes from deposition of
soot from gas flames.

George wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
> >
> > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
> Don't think there is such a thing. I think both propane
> and nat gas must include an odorant (usually methyl mercaptan).

Why don't you go to this page and search
on "odorless":

http://www.oilcn.com/Detail_Offer.aspx?id=14145

Reg wrote:
>
> Do you know of any health and safety codes that
> prohibit use of non food grade propane? Without
> that, this would be of no concern to me.

I've never heard of any codes specific to making
creme brulee, if that's what you mean. It's such
a specialty, that I wouldn't expect such codes
to exist, even if there were a known hazard.

> When you breath exhaust fumes from a car,
> even at low concentrations when walking down the
> street, you're being exposed to carcinogens too.
> I don't know of a way to attain zero exposure
> to any and all carcinogens, which seems to
> be your criteria here.

I didn't say that. You're inventing a clearly
absurd criterion, and using that to criticize me.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> > No. This Dave was questioning where you came up with the nonsense
> > about using food grade propane for caramelizing sugar.
>
> May I remind you of your earlier words.
> You know seem to be back-pedalling.
>
> > WTF ?????
> > Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?

Yes of course. You had warned the OP not to use propane for food unless
it us food grade. The OP had asked about using a regular propane torch
or if a special one was needed.

>
> You also said this, which seemed to reject the
> evidence of a website for no better reason than
> you didn't scroll down to the English version
> of the text (as I had instructed):

What a curiously asinine suggestion that is. You have tried to
discredit by rebuttal with the suggestion that I can not read. That was
after I made a comment to the effect that it appeared to have something
to do with someone trying to tender out a project. Since I my system
does not recognize Chinese characters and I do not read Chinese, it is
pretty lame on your part to suggest that I cannot read English. To make
matters worse, when I went back and quoted the English portion of the
cited page, you stupidly question whether I had followed your
instructions. We duh.... how stupid can you be to suggest that.

>
> > At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese,
> > and appears to have something to do with someone tendering out
> > a project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of
> > the Nigerian scam.
>
> I don't know what you meant by the "Nigerian scam"
> comment, but it sure seemed like you were rejecting
> the evidence of the website for reasons that had
> nothing to do with carmelizing sugar.

I am sorry if the reference to the Nigerian scam went over your head. I
find it ironic that you would accuse me of not following your
instructions to scroll to the English text, or to be unable to read
English in light of the fact that I cut and pasted the entire English
text on that site. You're so damned smart maybe you can tell us what
the hell the guy is asking about. It's got nothing to with using a
propane torch to caramelize sugar.

> You'll have to try better than that if you want
> to wiggle out of this one.

There is nothing for me to wiggle out of. I wasn't the one who suggested
that you had to use food grade propane for the purposes of the OP.
Accusing me of not being able to read your obscure and irrelevant web
sites isn't going to help you much.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> What a curiously asinine suggestion that is. You have tried to
> discredit by rebuttal with the suggestion that I can not read. That was
> after I made a comment to the effect that it appeared to have something
> to do with someone trying to tender out a project. Since I my system
> does not recognize Chinese characters and I do not read Chinese, it is
> pretty lame on your part to suggest that I cannot read English. To make
> matters worse, when I went back and quoted the English portion of the
> cited page, you stupidly question whether I had followed your
> instructions. We duh.... how stupid can you be to suggest that.

Dave, you obviously have some sort of emotional issues.
It's wrong for you to displace your anger from whatever
source -- perhaps those women at the bake sale -- on
to me. You need psychiatric help.

> > > At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese,
> > > and appears to have something to do with someone tendering out
> > > a project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of
> > > the Nigerian scam.
> >
> > I don't know what you meant by the "Nigerian scam"
> > comment, but it sure seemed like you were rejecting
> > the evidence of the website for reasons that had
> > nothing to do with carmelizing sugar.
>
> I am sorry if the reference to the Nigerian scam went over your head.

If you have a rational explanation for your comment,
let's hear it. I suspect not.

On Sun 08 Jan 2006 12:49:24p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mark
Thorson?

> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> What a curiously asinine suggestion that is. You have tried to
>> discredit by rebuttal with the suggestion that I can not read. That was
>> after I made a comment to the effect that it appeared to have something
>> to do with someone trying to tender out a project. Since I my system
>> does not recognize Chinese characters and I do not read Chinese, it is
>> pretty lame on your part to suggest that I cannot read English. To make
>> matters worse, when I went back and quoted the English portion of the
>> cited page, you stupidly question whether I had followed your
>> instructions. We duh.... how stupid can you be to suggest that.
>
> Dave, you obviously have some sort of emotional issues.
> It's wrong for you to displace your anger from whatever
> source -- perhaps those women at the bake sale -- on
> to me. You need psychiatric help.

Precisely why he resides in my killfile.

>> > > At least one??? That one is so obscure that it is in Chinese, and
>> > > appears to have something to do with someone tendering out a
>> > > project. For all I know it could be the Chinese version of the
>> > > Nigerian scam.
>> >
>> > I don't know what you meant by the "Nigerian scam"
>> > comment, but it sure seemed like you were rejecting
>> > the evidence of the website for reasons that had nothing to do with
>> > carmelizing sugar.
>>
>> I am sorry if the reference to the Nigerian scam went over your head.
>
> If you have a rational explanation for your comment,
> let's hear it. I suspect not.
>



--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Aromatics are rings (although they also may
> have stubs sticking out of the rings).
> They can burn in a flame, but they won't burn
> nearly so readily as propane. The optimal
> conditions for burning propane are not sufficient
> for efficient burning of aromatics.

I would argue with that...

Most aromatics (afaik) are Esters.
Esters are alcohol based so have a lower burning point
than most hydrocarbons.

I may be wrong, but...

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> The vast majority of all carbon black (lampblack),
> which is an industrial commodity manufactured
> in huge amounts for coloring ink, plastics,
> car tires, etc., comes from deposition of
> soot from gas flames.

I NEVER get soot on anything I use a propane torch on!
IMHO it does indeed burn much, much hotter than your average gas flame.

Soot is produced by _incomplete_ burning due to the flame not being hot
enough. The propane torch pretty much solves that with sufficient oxygen
mix. Now if the flame is being used too low of a setting, that would be
different.

I run it as hot and high as I can get it. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

I think the overall point here is that, no, you really do not need a
special torch.

By far, the vast majority of cooks just use the torches and fuel from
the hardware store...

We are not all getting stomach cancer are we? ;-)

Still waiting for Bob Pastorio to put his 2 cents in here on this one,
and Sheldon.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > Aromatics are rings (although they also may
> > have stubs sticking out of the rings).
> > They can burn in a flame, but they won't burn
> > nearly so readily as propane. The optimal
> > conditions for burning propane are not sufficient
> > for efficient burning of aromatics.
>
> I would argue with that...
>
> Most aromatics (afaik) are Esters.

I was referring to the chemical use of the term
"aromatics", i.e. molecules with benzene-like
rings in them. I wasn't referring to molecules
that necessarily have odor.

> Esters are alcohol based so have a lower burning
> point than most hydrocarbons.

Esters are like carboxylic acids, but with
a carbon-based group substituted at the
site of the active (acid) hydrogen. Esters
may be formed by reacting a carboxylic acid
with an alcohol, but do not necessarily have
any of the characteristics of either.
For example, many waxes are esters.

Esters may contain benzene-like rings, but
most do not.

> I may be wrong, but...

Indeed.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> I NEVER get soot on anything I use a propane torch on! IMHO it
> does indeed burn much, much hotter than your average gas flame.
>
> Soot is produced by _incomplete_ burning due to the flame not
> being hot enough. The propane torch pretty much solves that with
> sufficient oxygen mix. Now if the flame is being used too low
> of a setting, that would be different.

Even if it produces much less, there will still be
some incompletely combusted by-products. This is
especially concerning for compounds like napthalene
and anthracene which are common in fossil fuels and
while not carcinogenic in their unmodified forms,
become intensely carcinogenic in some of their
modified forms which can occur from the chemistry
in a flame.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> I think the overall point here is that, no, you really
> do not need a special torch.

Not a special torch, no. Unless you mean an electric one.

> By far, the vast majority of cooks just use the torches
> and fuel from the hardware store...

True. And there's never been a case in which something
"everybody does" later turned out to be harmful, right?

> We are not all getting stomach cancer are we? ;-)

How do you know that? Back in the 19th century,
the famous doctor John Harvey Kellogg was saying
that smoking cigarettes caused lung cancer.
He didn't have proof, so only people like the
health nuts who attended his Battle Creek Sanitarium
believed him.

> Still waiting for Bob Pastorio to put his 2 cents
> in here on this one, and Sheldon.

There are some comments even I won't touch. :-)