Do you use a starter?
If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and use
that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat, though
white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the glycemic
index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I am, you
should be addressing this, to prolong life.
Happy New Year

Kent wrote:
> Do you use a starter?
> If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
> store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and use
> that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
> Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
> Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat, though
> white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the glycemic
> index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I am, you
> should be addressing this, to prolong life.
> Happy New Year

You should mix in extra gluten.

--Bryan

"Kent" > wrote:
> Do you use a starter?
> If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
> store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and
> use that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
> Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
> Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat,
> though white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the
> glycemic index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I
> am, you should be addressing this, to prolong life.

I use a "sourdough" starter I keep around for all my "bread" baking
activities, including pizza dough. When I make anything, I refresh the
starter and use the remainder for baking something. For pizza, I make the
dough in the morning and then let it ferment slowly through the day, about 8
hours or so. I use regular bread flour for the pizza dough. I don't add any
additional yeast to the dough beyond what's in my starter.

For making bread, I do it a little differently. I refresh the starter at
night, and then use the remainder to make a poolish for the bread. For the
bread I began this past Friday night, I used the starter, 3 cups of water,
and 3 cups of flour. I let that ferment overnight. The next morning I add
the remainder of the flour, the salt, and anything else I'm putting in. No
additional yeast here either. This last batch (2 loaves) I added sun dried
tomatoes and canned ripe olives. I do the normal first rise (90 minutes),
form the loaves, do a second rise (60 minutes), then bake.

After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about 12
hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear. Certainly not if
it could do the first rise of the dough in 90 minutes (after the overnight
ferment of the poolish).

Since I've been doing this starter thing, I don't use yeast any more. I
began this starter 2 years ago. In the mean time, I've got a container of
yeast in the freezer that's basically been sitting there for 2 years. Yeast
(active dry) seems to last forever in the freezer.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:09:34 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> wrote:

>After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about 12
>hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
>refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
>time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear.

Howdy,

It would last much longer in the refrigerator if you didn't
have it consume so much of its food while at room
temperature.

What benefit do you feel you get from doing that?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote:
>>After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about
>>12
>>hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
>>refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
>>time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear.
>
> Howdy,
>
> It would last much longer in the refrigerator if you didn't
> have it consume so much of its food while at room
> temperature.
>
> What benefit do you feel you get from doing that?

I believe the minute you put the starter (or any yeast dough) into the
refrigerator, you pretty much slow all growth activity down to a standstill.
So I'm not sure the lack of food has much effect on how long it lasts. In
refreshing and fermenting again at warmer temperatures, you are
accomplishing two things. First is getting rid of the waste products of the
fermentation (alcohol, etc.). Second is building back up the yeast cell
count so it is strong enough to ferment the next batch of dough in a
reasonable time period. If you put it back in the refrigerator immediately,
the number of yeast cells would not increase.

Aside from the yeast activity in a sourdough, there is also the bacteria
activity. Sourdough is a symbiotic relationship between yeast and bacteria.
Bacteria add a sour note to the dough. Or rather the acid products (lactic,
acetic) they generate. The sourness is partly a function of how long and at
what temperature the ferment takes place. Low room temperatures favor
acetic, higher favor lactic. But temperatures also affect speed of
fermentation. It's all pretty complicated, and pretty amazing. I'm not
always doing the same thing, but I'm sure whatever I'm doing, the result is
more flavorful than using just straight yeast and a quick fermentation. It's
fun to play with and saves me the cost of buying yeast.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:46:09 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> wrote:

>I believe the minute you put the starter (or any yeast dough) into the
>refrigerator, you pretty much slow all growth activity down to a standstill.
>So I'm not sure the lack of food has much effect on how long it lasts.

Hello again,

My understanding (and my experience) is that, indeed, in the
refrigerator, the growth slows, but not to a standstill.

The available food is slowly depleted at those temperatures,
and that is why it makes sense to store starters before they
are depleted, that is, with a supply of fresh food (flour)
rather than after they have "eaten" it.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote:
> My understanding (and my experience) is that, indeed, in the
> refrigerator, the growth slows, but not to a standstill.
>
> The available food is slowly depleted at those temperatures,
> and that is why it makes sense to store starters before they
> are depleted, that is, with a supply of fresh food (flour)
> rather than after they have "eaten" it.

I agree they don't stop, but between the cold and the lack of food, the
critters seem to go dormant. For me at least there doesn't seem to be any
deleterious effect of storing them without a fresh batch of food. What I
wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in the
refrigerator? One of my goals is to use everything I can from the process...
the discarded starter from refreshing always goes into something if I can
help it.

The longer I've stored the starter, the slower the action once I bring it
back out. That suggests that some percentage is dying off during storage.
But it does not seem to affect the final result (making the next batch of
dough), only the time it takes.

The biggest factor for me in terms of resulting sourness is time and
temperature. Temperature is a hard thing to control through the year. In
summer, "room temperature" might get up to 80 degrees even with the A/C on.
In winter, during the night with the thermostat set back, room temperature
might drop to 60 degrees. I can place my fermenting containers in various
places. My stove is one of those old 1970s vintage gas double (upper and
lower) oven models with pilots for everything. The upper oven is really just
a bit too warm for fermenting. The lower oven is in the upper 70s degree
range. With the light on, it is more like the upper 80s. On top of the stove
toward the back is around 72 degrees.

I don't get overly concerned about reproducing the same results over and
over. I'll take what I get and enjoy it. It's always better than just a
simple mix flour, yeast and water, rise twice, then bake model. I seem to
get my best results by letting the starter go no longer than a week, and
fermenting a poolish overnight on the back of the stove. But I'm not going
to let the process take over my life.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )