Hi All,

Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left
it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly,
but didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes,
kneaded and made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were
the same size as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably
fall through the floor!

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.

Any help appreciated,

Thanks for reading,
Bob

Bob wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left
> it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly,
> but didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes,
> kneaded and made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were
> the same size as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably
> fall through the floor!
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Bob
Bob, did your yeast come into contact with the salt before it was mixed
into the dough? If so that would be one problem. It also sounds like
you might not have used enough yeast sine the dough didn't double or
your yeast was dead. Try again with fresh yeast and see what happens.
Make sure you keep the rolls covered with a damp towel while they are
rising.

~patches~ wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan.
>> I mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast,
>> also 1 tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish
>> dough. I left it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and
>> it rose slightly, but didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into
>> equal sizes, kneaded and made into rolls. When they came out of the
>> oven they were the same size as they went in and if I dropped one, it
>> would probably fall through the floor!
>>
>> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
>> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>>
>> Any help appreciated,
>>
>> Thanks for reading,
>> Bob
> Bob, did your yeast come into contact with the salt before it was mixed
> into the dough? If so that would be one problem. It also sounds like
> you might not have used enough yeast sine the dough didn't double or
> your yeast was dead. Try again with fresh yeast and see what happens.
> Make sure you keep the rolls covered with a damp towel while they are
> rising.

Hi Patches,
Thanks for your prompt reply. I made a special effort to keep the yeast
separate from the salt before mixing, as someone had mentioned this to
me previously. The yeast has been in an opened but folded over and
sealed packet for a few months. I used about a tsp, is this enough, and
would it still be active after this time?

Thanks again, I'll open some fresh yeast and try again. Incidentally, is
the fast action yeast suitable for hand made bread? the packet says
suitable for all bread makers.

Best Regards,
Bob

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left it
> to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly, but
> didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes, kneaded and
> made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were the same size
> as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably fall through the
> floor!
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Bob
You might try asking in alt.bread.recipes. They are great help.

MoM

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> ~patches~ wrote:
>> Bob wrote:
>>
snip
The yeast has been in an opened but folded over and
> sealed packet for a few months. I used about a tsp, is this enough, and
> would it still be active after this time?
>
> Thanks again, I'll open some fresh yeast and try again. Incidentally, is
> the fast action yeast suitable for hand made bread? the packet says
> suitable for all bread makers.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bob

If you are going to use the individual packets of yeast, I would suggest
buying it just before you make bread. I have never found the packets to be
reliable--I think they may be treated badly at the store. Definitely never
attempt to use the remains of an already open packet--open a new one. If
you only make bread once or twice a year, the packets may be the most
economical for you. If you bake more often, I would recommend getting a jar
of yeast and always keep it in the freezer. You can use the yeast directly
from the freezer, there is no need to bring to room temperature. Yeast kept
in the freezer in a jar can last a year or more.
Janet

Bob: First off, you have to knead the dough BEFORE proofing. Kneading
develops the gluten in the flour. Gluten is what makes the dough elastic
and stretchy, necessary characteristics for proofing because unkneaded dough
can't trap and retain the bubbles of carbon dioxide that the yeast produces
during proofing.

Second, as another reply indicated, be careful how you mix the yeast and
salt. Salt retards or stops yeast action. It's necessary for flavor, but
best added AFTER adding the yeast mixture.

Third, I've always had better results using conventional yeast mixed with
water first -- not the hi speed stuff you mix into the dry flour. I knows
there's much debate about this, but that's been my experience. Mix an
envelope of conventional yeast with water that feels neither warm or cold,
add a small squirt of honey or a pinch of sugar and set it aside for a few
minutes. This is called "proofing." When a foam forms on the surface of
the mixture, THEN add it to the flour. The foam "proves" it's good and very
active. If the water is a very tiny bit too warm, it kills the yeast and
nothing will happen.

Fourth, knead the dough until it feels like dough. It will be elastic,
smooth and when you punch it with a finger, it will want to spring back.
This could take 12 to 15 minutes by hand, and 8 to 10 by machine
(typically -- maybe more or less).

Fifth, lightly coat a large mixing bowl with oil, place the kneaded dough in
it, cover it with a piece of plastic wrap to keep it from drying out, put a
folded towel over that to keep it dark and let it rise in a draft-free
place. DOn't worry about the time. It might take 30 minutes or it might
take an hour and a half. Just let it go until it reaches twice its original
size.

Sixth, "punch" it down, shape it into a ball on a floured surface, cover it
with a flour-dusted towel and let it "rest for 15 minutes.

Seventh, shape your rolls. Assuming you want round rolls, make balls about
half the final size you want, place them on an oiled and cornmeal-dusted
baking sheet , cover with a damp cloth and leave them alone until they
almost double in size. Again, time is not the critical factor -- size is.
When they're the size you want, remove the cloth.

Finally, you can bake them now, OR you can put a wash and/or toppings on
them first. The simplest wash is water brushed on VERY GENTLY with a soft
basting brush. You can also make an egg wash from raw egg and water (makes
'em shiny and brown) or a slurry of corn starch and water. Be careful to
NOT allow the wash to run down the sides to the pan. That will make them
stick. If you want toppings, sprinkle seeds, salt, dehydrated onions,
garlic salt or whatever you want over the wet rolls. Will be more tasty if
you toast seeds beforehand.

Bake 'em and get out the butter...

Fred


"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left it
> to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly, but
> didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes, kneaded and
> made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were the same size
> as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably fall through the
> floor!
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Bob

Use the packets unless you're gonna bake a whole lot of bread. NEVER save
an opened packet. Use a whole packet -- not a teaspoon. Unless your grocer
stores the yeast packets on the pizza oven packets are as good or better
than any other kind for the occasional baker. Fleischmann's is as good as
any other brand available in most grocery stores. Store the packets in the
freezer and bake more bread if you have a problem with them getting too old.

Fred

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> ~patches~ wrote:
>> Bob wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
>>> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
>>> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left
>>> it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly,
>>> but didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes,
>>> kneaded and made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were
>>> the same size as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably
>>> fall through the floor!
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
>>> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>>>
>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> Bob
>> Bob, did your yeast come into contact with the salt before it was mixed
>> into the dough? If so that would be one problem. It also sounds like
>> you might not have used enough yeast sine the dough didn't double or your
>> yeast was dead. Try again with fresh yeast and see what happens. Make
>> sure you keep the rolls covered with a damp towel while they are rising.
>
> Hi Patches,
> Thanks for your prompt reply. I made a special effort to keep the yeast
> separate from the salt before mixing, as someone had mentioned this to me
> previously. The yeast has been in an opened but folded over and sealed
> packet for a few months. I used about a tsp, is this enough, and would it
> still be active after this time?
>
> Thanks again, I'll open some fresh yeast and try again. Incidentally, is
> the fast action yeast suitable for hand made bread? the packet says
> suitable for all bread makers.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bob

Fred wrote:
>
> Bake 'em and get out the butter...
>
> Fred
>

Wow, thanks for the nice guide Fred, I'll give it another shot. For your
info, I had kneaded the bread before proofing (I forgot to mention in
the OP!) However, I think I only did about 5 or 6 mins before I got
bored! If it needs longer, I'll knead longer

Thanks again,
Bob

> You might try asking in alt.bread.recipes. They are great help.
>
> MoM
>

Thanks for the pointer, I knew I should have looked for recipes as well
as cooking

Bob

Bob wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>> Bob wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to
>>> plan. I mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action
>>> yeast, also 1 tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a
>>> wet-ish dough. I left it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm
>>> place, and it rose slightly, but didn't double in size. I then cut
>>> the dough into equal sizes, kneaded and made into rolls. When they
>>> came out of the oven they were the same size as they went in and if
>>> I dropped one, it would probably fall through the floor!
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
>>> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>>>
>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading,
>>> Bob
>>
>> Bob, did your yeast come into contact with the salt before it was
>> mixed into the dough? If so that would be one problem. It also
>> sounds like you might not have used enough yeast sine the dough didn't
>> double or your yeast was dead. Try again with fresh yeast and see
>> what happens. Make sure you keep the rolls covered with a damp towel
>> while they are rising.
>
>
> Hi Patches,
> Thanks for your prompt reply. I made a special effort to keep the yeast
> separate from the salt before mixing, as someone had mentioned this to
> me previously. The yeast has been in an opened but folded over and
> sealed packet for a few months. I used about a tsp, is this enough, and
> would it still be active after this time?

A few months may have rendered the yeast inactive. Next time store any
opened yeast in the freezer to keep it fresh.
>
> Thanks again, I'll open some fresh yeast and try again. Incidentally, is
> the fast action yeast suitable for hand made bread? the packet says
> suitable for all bread makers.

This is an ongoing debate. Instant yeast is recommended for breadmaker
*but* only if you intend to bake the bread in the breadmaker. If using
the breadmaker on the dough only setting you could get away with regular
granulated yeast. That's the kind where you pour it into a sweetened
water to become active. I use both methods depending on my recipe. You
can get block yeast but I have no real experience with it. My sourdough
comes from natural yeast. This is kind of a trial & error thing but
when you finally get a good sourdough starter it is best to freeze or
dry it to keep a steady supply and innoculate new starter.


>
> Best Regards,
> Bob

Janet Bostwick wrote:

> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>>Bob wrote:
>>>
>
> snip
> The yeast has been in an opened but folded over and
>
>>sealed packet for a few months. I used about a tsp, is this enough, and
>>would it still be active after this time?
>>
>>Thanks again, I'll open some fresh yeast and try again. Incidentally, is
>>the fast action yeast suitable for hand made bread? the packet says
>>suitable for all bread makers.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Bob
>
>
> If you are going to use the individual packets of yeast, I would suggest
> buying it just before you make bread. I have never found the packets to be
> reliable--I think they may be treated badly at the store. Definitely never
> attempt to use the remains of an already open packet--open a new one. If
> you only make bread once or twice a year, the packets may be the most
> economical for you. If you bake more often, I would recommend getting a jar
> of yeast and always keep it in the freezer. You can use the yeast directly
> from the freezer, there is no need to bring to room temperature. Yeast kept
> in the freezer in a jar can last a year or more.
> Janet
>
>
For serious breadmakers you can get 2 lb of yeast at Sam's Club for $3.
Stored in the freezer is lasts a long time.

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
snip
> For serious breadmakers you can get 2 lb of yeast at Sam's Club for $3.
> Stored in the freezer is lasts a long time.

Costco has the same thing. It is so darn inexpensive to buy that way.
Janet

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
snip
> This is an ongoing debate. Instant yeast is recommended for breadmaker
> *but* only if you intend to bake the bread in the breadmaker. If using
> the breadmaker on the dough only setting you could get away with regular
> granulated yeast. That's the kind where you pour it into a sweetened
> water to become active. I use both methods depending on my recipe. You
> can get block yeast but I have no real experience with it. My sourdough
> comes from natural yeast. This is kind of a trial & error thing but when
> you finally get a good sourdough starter it is best to freeze or dry it to
> keep a steady supply and innoculate new starter.
>

Current bread books very often use instant yeast exclusively--it's not just
for bread machines anymore. Unless you believe that you have seriously
mishandled your yeast storage, it is not desirable to hydrate the yeast in
sweetened water. The sweetened water was used years ago to determine if the
yeast was still viable. You can actually damage the yeast cells by
hydrating in sweetened water by causing them to rupture. The idea is only
to activate the dried yeast with water.
Janet

Janet Bostwick wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
> snip
>
>>For serious breadmakers you can get 2 lb of yeast at Sam's Club for $3.
>>Stored in the freezer is lasts a long time.
>
>
> Costco has the same thing. It is so darn inexpensive to buy that way.
> Janet
>
>
Yes it is and if some goes to waste I don't worry about it either.

Bob wrote on 13 Oct 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Hi All,
>
> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left
> it to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly,
> but didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes,
> kneaded and made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were
> the same size as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably
> fall through the floor!
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Bob

Not enough kneading comes to mind...wetish dough...too much water.
You should knead till you get a nice elastic dough (before the first
rise) that isn't sticky or wet. If the gluten isn't developed your dough
will rise little if at all.
Google the window pane test. if the yeast was poorly there wouldn't be any
rising of the dough.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

You can actually damage the yeast cells by
> hydrating in sweetened water by causing them to rupture. The idea is only
> to activate the dried yeast with water.
> Janet


Hi Janet: I'm certainly no expert on this subject, and I'm not
professionally trained by any standard. I started baking more than thirty
years ago because I remembered how delicious the freshly-baked bread was
that my Mom used to make when I was growing up (and couldn't care less how
to cook anything.) I have never owned, nor do I plan to own, a "bread
machine." I have made breads with the compressive strength of concrete, and
the texture of leather. Eventually learned enough through trial and error
(with many errors) to get good results almost every time. Over the years I
have heard many theories du jour about breadmaking, usually regarding yeast,
and have tried most of them. I have come to believe that the matter of
which yeast is used is not nearly as important as the intuitive
understanding one has, developed over time. For example, knowing when the
dough has been kneaded enough and recognizing the optimum "rise" are
crucial. I used to make it a point to get special yeasts or those marketed
as having esoteric qualities. However, I recently realized I have drifted
back to the old standby basic Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast for everything
I do (I don't do sourdough anymore). I've used the rapid rise yeast with
so-so results. I always hydrate the yeast in water with a little honey or
sugar, then allow it a few minutes to proof. I believe a good layer of foam
indicates it has gotten its reproductive process really cranked up and
rolling, and always get better results if I wait until the foam forms, which
might be 5 minutes or up to 15. The results are consistently excellent.
There might be a few ruptured yeast cells in there for all I know. Could be
they're what make it taste so good...

"Fred" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> You can actually damage the yeast cells by
>> hydrating in sweetened water by causing them to rupture. The idea is
>> only to activate the dried yeast with water.
>> Janet
>
>
> Hi Janet: I'm certainly no expert on this subject, and I'm not
> professionally trained by any standard. I started baking more than thirty
> years ago because I remembered how delicious the freshly-baked bread was
> that my Mom used to make when I was growing up (and couldn't care less how
> to cook anything.) I have never owned, nor do I plan to own, a "bread
> machine." I have made breads with the compressive strength of concrete,
> and the texture of leather. Eventually learned enough through trial and
> error (with many errors) to get good results almost every time. Over the
> years I have heard many theories du jour about breadmaking, usually
> regarding yeast, and have tried most of them. I have come to believe that
> the matter of which yeast is used is not nearly as important as the
> intuitive understanding one has, developed over time. For example,
> knowing when the dough has been kneaded enough and recognizing the optimum
> "rise" are crucial. I used to make it a point to get special yeasts or
> those marketed as having esoteric qualities. However, I recently realized
> I have drifted back to the old standby basic Fleischmann's Active Dry
> Yeast for everything I do (I don't do sourdough anymore). I've used the
> rapid rise yeast with so-so results. I always hydrate the yeast in water
> with a little honey or sugar, then allow it a few minutes to proof. I
> believe a good layer of foam indicates it has gotten its reproductive
> process really cranked up and rolling, and always get better results if I
> wait until the foam forms, which might be 5 minutes or up to 15. The
> results are consistently excellent. There might be a few ruptured yeast
> cells in there for all I know. Could be they're what make it taste so
> good...
Isn't that the truth--an experienced hand is always the best. I also
began making bread about 40 years ago and a lot has changed in that time.
Foaming the yeast, of course, supplies the recipe with a great deal more
yeast than the recipe calls for and almost certainly guarantees a swift,
high rise. The current approach in artisanal bread making is to increase
the flavor of the bread components by making the fermentation process take
time. However, some people enjoy the flavor and smell of yeast in the end
product.

I'm not sure what esoteric qualities could have been touted to you regarding
yeast, other than there is a SAF yeast that is better used with highly
enriched recipes because it tolerates that kind of environment better than
regular active dry or instant. The work around, however, is to use more
yeast when making sweet breads. There is nothing wrong with active dry
yeast, I use it myself and substitute back and forth if I wish. The
original poster is a self-professed bread newbie and needs to know there are
different kinds of yeast available.

My information regarding rupturing the yeast cells comes from a
professionally-trained, industrial/commercial baker/bread-stuffs chemist
that frequents alt.bread.recipes. Please stop by and join us; your
experience will be welcomed by the group.

Janet

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> Been trying to make some bread rolls but it isn't quite going to plan. I
> mixed 1lb of flour with a tsp salt, sugar and quick action yeast, also 1
> tbsp oil, then added water and mixed till I got a wet-ish dough. I left it
> to prove for a couple of hours in a warm place, and it rose slightly, but
> didn't double in size. I then cut the dough into equal sizes, kneaded and
> made into rolls. When they came out of the oven they were the same size
> as they went in and if I dropped one, it would probably fall through the
> floor!
>
> Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong? I want a nice, light fluffy
> inside, with maybe a crust outside, but my dough has other ideas.
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Bob
try going here for some additional help.
http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/index....on=faq&page=88

There is a simple bread recipe there with detailed instructions that you
might like to try.'

Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote Please stop by and join us;
your
> experience will be welcomed by the group.
>
> Janet
>

Thanks, Janet. I'll do that.

Fred

"Fred" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote Please stop by and join
> us; your
>> experience will be welcomed by the group.
>>
>> Janet
>>
>
> Thanks, Janet. I'll do that.

Hi Fred and welcome)

Ophelia
Scotland